Covid-19 #27: A Handful of Stars, A Fistful of Dollars

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I just saw that Brazil had it's single worst day of positive cases yesterday. That's a bit shocking given all the global progress. I still don't believe their death toll though. It's way too low, and the head of government has given no indication that he wants an accurate count.

[JoannaL]

1 hour ago, rotting sea cow said:

There is some talk that Norway has found the likely cause of the death of a teacher affected by that rare blood disorder: antibodies against the platelets developed as result of the vaccine. Shit. If this is true, can be predicted?

 

 

That would be about the same then,than the German cases. They explained it as an autoimmunreaction against blodd platelets which then leads to this brain blood clots.

[JoannaL]

Since Monday when they stopped six more people developed these brain blood clots (inside two weeks after vaccination)in Germany  so its now thirteen, twelve of them women under 50.

[Filippa Eilhart]

this is getting serious.

[Raja]

2 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

There is some talk that Norway has found the likely cause of the death of a teacher affected by that rare blood disorder: antibodies against the platelets developed as result of the vaccine. Shit. If this is true, can be predicted?

 

 

I think if you're posting something like this, you should provide a link so we can read more about it. Sources are important!

[JoannaL]

12 minutes ago, Filippa Eilhart said:

this is getting serious.

Hm, the statistical risk to die of Covid is still higher, even for women under 50 (but the gain-risk balance is shrinking), so I hope the AZ pause will be lifted. Perhaps it would make sense to give AZ to men and Pfizer to women.

[Filippa Eilhart]

1 minute ago, JoannaL said:

Hm, the statistical risk to die of Covid is still higher, even for women under 50 (but the gain-risk balance is shrinking), so I hope the AZ pause will be lifted. Perhaps it would make sense to give AZ to men and Pfizer to women.

I would still take it but it's looking more likely that it's not just a coincidence.

[Fragile Bird]

You know what I think? Down the road more and more countries will reject the AZ vaccine completely, as more vaccine supply comes on board. Get those J&J and Novavax doses rolling out and countries will tell Oxford to go back to the drawing board. And it will happen fast, in a month? In two months?

[ljkeane]

7 minutes ago, Raja said:

I think if you're posting something like this, you should provide a link so we can read more about it. Sources are important!

It's doctor from the hospital with the three cases in Norway saying he believes the vaccine is the cause. Obviously he's dealing with a very small sample though and in the same article someone quoted from the Norwegian Medical Agency is noncommittal and says to wait for the EMA recommendations.

[Raja]

5 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

It's doctor from the hospital with the three cases in Norway saying he believes the vaccine is the cause. Obviously he's dealing with a very small sample though and in the same article someone quoted from the Norwegian Medical Agency is noncommittal and says to wait for the EMA recommendations.

Thanks! The EMA press conference at 4 should tell us more.

[rotting sea cow]

21 minutes ago, Raja said:

I think if you're posting something like this, you should provide a link so we can read more about it. Sources are important!

sorry. But I haven't found links in english and don't have much time these days.

This is a link in spanish https://holanews.com/medicos-noruegos-creen-que-la-reaccion-inmunologica-de-la-vacuna-de-astrazeneca-causo-las-trombosis/

and another from norway https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/QmwR1V/professor-om-mistenkte-vaksinebivirkninger-aarsaken-er-funnet

 

 

[Raja]

Here's the UK regulator's comment regarding all this - the top line is similar to the EMA, that the benefits outweigh the risks at this point and people should get vaccinated, however, they will be conducting a detailed review of 5 cases of sinus vein thrombosis and thrombocytopenia ( low platelets) that have occurred in the UK

Quote

Today the UK regulator, following a rigorous scientific review of all the available data, said that the available evidence does not suggest that blood clots in veins (venous thromboembolism) are caused by COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca. This follows a detailed review of report cases as well as data from hospital admissions and GP records. This has been confirmed by the Government’s independent advisory group, the Commission on Human Medicines, whose expert scientists and clinicians have also reviewed the available data.

A further, detailed review into five UK reports of a very rare and specific type of blood clot in the cerebral veins (sinus vein thrombosis) occurring together with lowered platelets (thrombocytopenia) is ongoing. This has been reported in less than 1 in a million people vaccinated so far in the UK, and can also occur naturally – a causal association with the vaccine has not been established.

The MHRA’s advice remains that the benefits of the vaccines against COVID-19 continue to outweigh any risks and that the public should continue to get their vaccine when invited to do so ( quotes below from chief exec of MHRA)

Our thorough and careful review, alongside the critical assessment of leading, independent scientists, shows that there is no evidence that that blood clots in veins is occurring more than would be expected in the absence of vaccination, for either vaccine.

We have received a very small number of reports of an extremely rare form of blood clot in the cerebral veins (sinus vein thrombosis, or CSVT) occurring together with lowered platelets soon after vaccination. This type of blood clot can occur naturally in people who have not been vaccinated, as well as in those suffering from COVID-19.

Given the extremely rare rate of occurrence of these CSVT events among the 11 million people vaccinated, and as a link to the vaccine is unproven, the benefits of the vaccine in preventing COVID-19, with its associated risk of hospitalisation and death, continue to outweigh the risks of potential side effects.

While we continue to investigate these cases, as a precautionary measure we would advise anyone with a headache that lasts for more than 4 days after vaccination, or bruising beyond the site of vaccination after a few days, to seek medical attention.

 

[Filippa Eilhart]

I hope they are also looking into whether these people had covid.

[Raja]

They will.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Blood clotting has been a serious issue with Covid patients long before we started vaccinating.

Here's this story from April 2020-

https://www.boston25news.com/news/trending/coronavirus-are-blood-clots-killing-covid-19-patients/UAH5GS4WK5FPJFP7YUHPYT2ZIQ/

[Fragile Bird]

For lack of a better spot, I am going to drop this story here because of all the people interested in medical matters in addition to Covid matters. 

The province of New Brunswick, and only the province of New Brunswick, has seen 42 cases of a rare disease with symptoms like those of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, aka mad cow disease. The first case showed up in 2015, and since then 5 of the victims have died.

Quote

The symptoms of the cases detected since 2015 are similar to those of prion diseases, which include Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease and some of its variants, including mad cow disease, or bovine spongiform encephalopathy, or BSE.

However, despite many similarities, tests for Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease have so far ruled out known prion diseases, the Public Health memo states.

Scientists are currently looking into the possibility that this is a new variant of a prion disease — or a new disease entirely.

Think of having that on your local health department's case list, in addition to Covid-19.

Remind me not to travel to NB until they figure out the cause.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/mad-cow-disease-public-health-1.5953478

 

[ljkeane]

EMA recommending continued use of Astrazeneca vaccine.

[JoannaL]

12 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

EMA recommending continued use of Astrazeneca vaccine.

But they are not sure yet if these cases are caused by the vaccination and decided to include a warning for adverse events and to educate the doctors about it by leaflets and such... and to continue monitoring the situation

[ljkeane]

One thing to note for me, they're pretty convinced it's not an issue with particular batch or a quality issue so I think you can definitely add in the UK statistics when looking at the general review of the vaccine risks (and other EU countries which also don't seem to have had any problems). So the concern with the vaccine itself is 18 cases in 17 million or so doses not 7 in 1.6 million. There might be some other local issues obviously.

[Padraig]

4 hours ago, ljkeane said:

. There might be some other local issues obviously.

Yes.  Is it some weird genetic thing shared by Norwegians/Germans (i.e. it may have happened in UK but in even smaller proportions)?

No surprise from the EMA.  But yes, you'd wish the review of the Norwegian data was more categorical.  This is an interview with the Norwegian medical people a few days ago (its a little hidden in the rest of the article).  The medical doctor said "Norway will not restart the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine until there are clear answers in these cases, regardless of a decision by the EMA".  That is not what you want.

Even if Norway can say AZ caused these blood clotting issues, how long will it take them to find out why those (very few) people?  And not millions of others?  That sounds incredibly difficult.

I imagine most countries will resume though.  Certainly all the indications from Ireland were that we were "ready to go" before the EMA spoke.

9 hours ago, JoannaL said:

I still believe in seasonality. We have now about the same weather as in November when the second wave hit. It will at least be another month to see if there is a seasonal factor. In May the weather is much warmer and this Covid -wave better be over - because I really am done with this ...

That's an interesting point.  Maybe the optimal time for COVID isn't the height of winter but late Autumn/early Winter, and late Winter/early Spring.  It may have as much to do with people being more mobile (than with the disease itself).

8 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I just saw that Brazil had it's single worst day of positive cases yesterday. That's a bit shocking given all the global progress.

Brazil has probably been the worst example of a response to COVID in the world.  Take Trump's America and remove most of its interest in the vaccine.