Covid-19 #27: A Handful of Stars, A Fistful of Dollars

[DireWolfSpirit]

So is it a case of the company using a little sleight of hand to say they are at 79% efficacy while they are actually at around 69%?

[IheartIheartTesla]

In other fascinating non-AZ news, I got my first Moderna shot today (about a half hour ago). It was in a big auditorium where the shots were given at tables on the stage, and everyone was made to wait 15 minutes in the audience seats before they were let go. Everything went pretty smoothly and I have an appointment for my next shot already.

[rotting sea cow]

40 minutes ago, Filippa Eilhart said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/astrazeneca-oxford-vaccine-concerns/2021/03/23/2f931d34-8bc3-11eb-a33e-da28941cb9ac_story.html

also this:

 

I'm appalled. So, it's indeed the company misrepresenting the trial results for the sake of a headline against the recommendation  of the regulatory bodies? No wonder they were pissed.

How governments are still willing to work with such a company displaying such a behavior? Specially in this critical times.

(as a side note, there have been reports of further fatal cases in Norway, Denmark and France associated to that vaccine induced syndrome)

[DireWolfSpirit]

Quit whining your raining on my self perceived coolness!

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_604243fac5b613cec15d2f93

[Fragile Bird]

26 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said:

I'm appalled. So, it's indeed the company misrepresenting the trial results for the sake of a headline against the recommendation  of the regulatory bodies? No wonder they were pissed.

How governments are still willing to work with such a company displaying such a behavior? Specially in this critical times.

(as a side note, there have been reports of further fatal cases in Norway, Denmark and France associated to that vaccine induced syndrome)

Like, what. The. Flying. Fuck?

[Raja]

2 hours ago, ljkeane said:

It's a bit strange from both sides here. The obvious thing for Astrazeneca to do would be to say to the DSMB before their press release 'we're going to release the interim results' (which to be fair they did clearly identify as the interim results) and if there's an issue that maybe resolve it in private. On the other hand kicking up a big fuss about it is also a little odd by the US authorities. Just say something like 'ok those are the interim results, we're reviewing the final data now'.

It's a big fuss because they chose to release interim results as opposed to later results that gave a full and less flattering picture of how well the vaccine works - and they opted to release the out of date numbers. You don't really do that.

I have no idea why they thought this wouldn't instantly be flagged up

Here's what Fauci says per STAT

Quote

“I was sort of stunned,” Fauci said. “The data and safety monitoring board were concerned that the data that went into the press release by AZ was not the most accurate and up-to-date data. That is what the DSMB communicated to AZ in a rather harsh note. Having seen that letter we could not just let it go unanswered.”

Asked why NIAID released its unusual statement, Fauci said, “We just felt we could not remain silent. Because if we did remain silent, we could be understandably accused of covering something up. And we definitely didn’t want to be in that position.”

He added: “In my mind, it’s an unforced error by the company.”

The DSMB is concerned that AstraZeneca chose to use data that was already outdated and potentially misleading in their press release,” the letter says. “The point that is clear to the board is that the [vaccine efficacy number] . . . they chose to release was the most favorable for the study as opposed to the most recent and most complete. Decisions like this are what erode public trust in the scientific process.”

I agree with Fauci, you cannot remain silent as a public health body in a case like this. You need transparency.

AZ not doing a great job with regards to credibility here, which is unfortunate given the fact that the vaccine works and will reduce hospitalizations and deaths.

[Impmk2]

11 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

@Raja - agreed.

I’d also have some hesitancy about the AZ vaccine compared to the others, since I’m 75% Norwegian.

I find the genetics hypothesis kinda odd. It's not as if there wasn't pretty extensive historical migration (well... invasion) between the Scandinavia and the UK. And the UK have had none of these issues. Makes me think there's something else going on.

But yes. Heads at AZ need to roll.

 

[Filippa Eilhart]

it’s showing up all over -Austria, France, Denmark, Germany. Norway seems to have the worst case:dose ratio though. 

[Zorral]

2 hours ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

In other fascinating non-AZ news, I got my first Moderna shot today (about a half hour ago). It was in a big auditorium where the shots were given at tables on the stage, and everyone was made to wait 15 minutes in the audience seats before they were let go. Everything went pretty smoothly and I have an appointment for my next shot already.

Excellent news.  Every time I see the Michigan reports on the virus you came to mind -- along with people in Detroit I actually know in person!

[Kalbear]

Obviously the problem is dumplings

[williamjm]

11 hours ago, Padraig said:

That is the oddest thing.  I'm sure the vaccine is fine.  Somebody misfiled something.  But because of the AZ curse (outside UK), something had to go wrong!

I do wonder if the Oxford people sometimes with they'd decided to partner with a different pharma company to manufacture the vaccine.

I wonder what tomorrow's AZ story will be?

7 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

I’m more suspicious of why they made this statement publicly. Novavax has been before them for two months now, how come the board hadn’t been making public statements about their information?

AZ had a cut-off date of Feb. 17 (which is triggered, I think, when they hit a certain number of cases) and have said in a press release that of course they’ll supply more data. Just like Novavax has had to.

Speaking of Novavax, I wonder whether there is much idea yet about when it might get approved? It would be the second vaccine to be manufactured in the UK if it did get approved.

[Padraig]

27 minutes ago, williamjm said:

I do wonder if the Oxford people sometimes with they'd decided to partner with a different pharma company to manufacture the vaccine.

AstraZeneca.  A Series of Unfortunate Events. 

They keep surprising me.

As for Novavax.  My impression is that they will file for approval in the UK in April.  Approval normally follows within 3 or 4 weeks.  The UK will be their first customer also.  Not sure what their plans are after the UK.

[IheartIheartTesla]

6 hours ago, Zorral said:

Excellent news.  Every time I see the Michigan reports on the virus you came to mind -- along with people in Detroit I actually know in person!

Thank you, although to be honest I think we've been luckier here than the rest of Michigan in terms of COVID cases and vaccine acceptance (even though we are maybe 55% Republican in the county, many of them are the 'country club' kind of Republicans who havent yet gone off the deep end)

[rotting sea cow]

13 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Like, what. The. Flying. Fuck?

I actually wonder whether the SEC will get involved if they feel that press release deceived investors. Maybe you or Chataya have a better feeling about it.

[JoannaL]

Here our daily AZ news:

(warning only German sources, citing italian newspaper )

AZ hid 29 mio doses of vaccine made in EU (in Halix) in Italian plant to export to UK. This while telling us, there arent any doses and they have to cut supply surprisingly again. These doses could already have  been distributed and used for vaccination (and saved lives)

 

[Which Tyler]

44 minutes ago, JoannaL said:

Here our daily AZ news:

(warning only German sources, citing italian newspaper )

AZ hid 29 mio doses of vaccine made in EU (in Halix) in Italian plant to export to UK. This while telling us, there arent any doses and they have to cut supply surprisingly again. These doses could already have  been distributed and used for vaccination (and saved lives)

 

Oh FFS

[Toth]

Just got a message: I'm going to get a message on Friday that I'm going to get an appointment for a vaccine. I already heard in the news that teachers will be prioritized soon, but to be honest I was skeptical whether it will actually happen. Damn...

[Padraig]

1 hour ago, JoannaL said:

AZ hid 29 mio doses of vaccine made in EU (in Halix) in Italian plant to export to UK. This while telling us, there arent any doses and they have to cut supply surprisingly again. These doses could already have  been distributed and used for vaccination (and saved lives)

There is an article on politico about this now.  See here.

I'm not sure what to make of it.  I remember reading before about how the EU would get doses from Halix once the factory is approved.  I think it was 10m?  And AZ does fill-finish in Italy.   

But this makes it all sound like subterfuge.  And 29m is a lot.  So...no clue.

[Luzifer's right hand]

20 minutes ago, Padraig said:

There is an article on politico about this now.  See here.

I'm not sure what to make of it.  I remember reading before about how the EU would get doses from Halix once the factory is approved.  I think it was 10m?  And AZ does fill-finish in Italy.   

But this makes it all sound like subterfuge.  And 29m is a lot.  So...no clue.

The UK pays pays more for the AZ vaccine. I do not think there is another reason than plain greed.

It this point the AZ plants in the EU need to be sized and nationalized I think. 

Edit: And the management needs to be arrested imho.

 

[JoannaL]

23 minutes ago, Padraig said:

There is an article on politico about this now.  See here.

I'm not sure what to make of it.  I remember reading before about how the EU would get doses from Halix once the factory is approved.  I think it was 10m?  And AZ does fill-finish in Italy.   

But this makes it all sound like subterfuge.  And 29m is a lot.  So...no clue.

Well, this is what I make of it. After the refusal of the Australian export from this Italian plant, AZ just didnt try again and let the supply grow and grow and grow. Because they wanted to export but knew they coulnt. Perhaps they were hoping that the EU transperancy mechanism would run out next week (it will be renewed this week)  and that they could then smuggle it out.

THIS IS THE WORST I HAVE HEARD OF THEM YET. People all over the world need vaccine. It MAY NOT lie around unused. If AZ were sure of the UK claim they should have applied for export, if not they should have given it to the EU. But to let it just sit there is murder, its evil!!!