Lord Varys Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 4 hours ago, HoodedCrow said: William Shatner, indeed! He was born Canadian and Jewish. His stage presence, voice and skill at proclaiming sold the show at the time. Yes, I know, other actors didn’t like that, and it doesn’t work now, so much. The supporting cast were gifted. If people hate on My Fair Lady, well… Captain Kirk was the main hero, and hero was what people wanted, even if there was a lot of hopeful and ambitious representation on the show. He kept rules, broke them, was sex positive, authoritative (as a Captain seems essential), but consulted. Delegated… though not realistically. Roles of women were somewhat better than usual, and lots of it was groundbreaking. Many of the themes were great, as science fiction can do, and there were wonderful writers. Captain Kirk was never a 'sex positive' guy. He has very few romances in TOS and is actually 'married to his ship' in a clichéd, repressed manner. The morals of TOS imply that a married man - or a man in a romantic relationship - cannot be a proper starship captain (and neither can the bridge crew properly function if they are in romantic relationships). And this is still pretty much a thing in Voyager where the bridge crew also do never properly fraternize - which in their situation is completely ridiculous considering they are stranded in the Delta Quadrant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoodedCrow Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 My terminology is shaky. I was trying to say that he enjoyed sex. Amorous? Many episodes imply it? It’s not evil? He falls in love with a woman in a different timeline? He has sex with aliens? It occurred to me, the the Trump dupes think that he is like Captain Kirk. Horror. Horror Horror. ( quoting Shakespeare) He isn’t. OMG, right! Kirk thinks and does a lot of his own dangerous work, to a fault. Spock is like the first yoda. He is the Science Officer. He is mixed, umm, race. OMG…Obama? Bones is a cranky Everyman doctor. Scotty was a fake Scottish engineer,. All the other characters are representative and supposed to be positive explorer /scientists/ workers of different races, genders, lands, and ethnicities. The next gen are just that, and it is not entirely successful. My DH says “no kids on a battleship”. Janeway was too late for me. Trumpers have don’t any of that. There are computers a lot like today but bigger?There are Mobile phones. Medicine and transportation are not there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Lord Varys said: Captain Kirk was never a 'sex positive' guy. He has very few romances in TOS and is actually 'married to his ship' in a clichéd, repressed manner. The morals of TOS imply that a married man - or a man in a romantic relationship - cannot be a proper starship captain (and neither can the bridge crew properly function if they are in romantic relationships). And this is still pretty much a thing in Voyager where the bridge crew also do never properly fraternize - which in their situation is completely ridiculous considering they are stranded in the Delta Quadrant. Paris and B'Lanna do hook up, though she's not bridge crew. But yes, the Voyager crew don't have the warm familial feeling of the TNG crew or even the DS9 crew, which is weird, given the Voyager team are stuck together 24/7 on a pretty small starship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Werthead said: Paris and B'Lanna do hook up, though she's not bridge crew. But yes, the Voyager crew don't have the warm familial feeling of the TNG crew or even the DS9 crew, which is weird, given the Voyager team are stuck together 24/7 on a pretty small starship. The main problem in Voyager is that Janeway and Chakotay never properly hook up despite the fact that sexual and romantic tension is there throughout the entire series until the very stupid ending with Seven. They could have been the father and mother of the family the crew would eventually grow into. And while I think it makes sense that relationships in Starfleet are forbidden if they involve direct superiors, colleagues like Miles-Keiko, Jadzia-Worf, Odo-Kira, etc. shouldn't be a big deal. But the core problem of both TOS and TNG is, I think, that the captains and top officers (Spock and Riker) are basically portrayed as people who cannot have any kind of romantic relationship ... be it with the crew on their ship, non-Starfleet personnel on the Enterprise, or folks who aren't on the ship at all. That only sort of changed with DS9 and, at least setting-wise, with Janeway's partner, although the show itself followed pretty much the old formula. The way Torres and Paris are dealt with is also pretty weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemon Stark Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Lord Varys said: The main problem in Voyager is that Janeway and Chakotay never properly hook up despite the fact that sexual and romantic tensions is there throughout the entire series until the very stupid ending with Seven. They could have been the father and mother of the family the crew would eventually grow into. And while I think it makes sense that relationships in Starfleet are forbidden if they involve direct superiors, colleagues like Miles-Keiko, Jadzia-Worf, Odo-Kira, etc. shouldn't be a big deal. Janeway-Chakotay would have been really interesting, but his character's, um, "Native American" aspects are really, really problematic/made-up when watching it now. 1 hour ago, Lord Varys said: But the core problem of both TOS and TNG is, I think, that the captains and top officers (Spock and Riker) are basically portrayed as people who cannot have any kind of romantic relationship ... be it with the crew on their ship, non-Starfleet personnel on the Enterprise, or folks who aren't on the ship at all. While that might be true of Spock, it's not at all of Riker. That guy - that guy fucks! 1 hour ago, Lord Varys said: That only sort of changed with DS9 and, at least setting-wise, with Janeway's partner, although the show itself followed pretty much the old formula. The way Torres and Paris are dealt with is also pretty weird. I think to date Sisko is the only captain that's been shown to be married - a widower at first, and then later marrying Kassidy in the final arc of season 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 17 minutes ago, Aemon Stark said: Janeway-Chakotay would have been really interesting, but his character's, um, "Native American" aspects are really, really problematic/made-up when watching it now. They basically are the mother and father of the ship ... and it is actually Chakotay who is the mother and Janeway who is the father since she is the rational person with a more 'male-like' personality, whereas Chakotay is often portrayed as this intuitive, emotional person who has insight into things, etc. That actually works pretty well. And they really like each other, so if there was a relationship it should have been theirs. 17 minutes ago, Aemon Stark said: While that might be true of Spock, it's not at all of Riker. That guy - that guy fucks! Yes, okay, he fucks, but not folks on the Enterprise. The Deanna thing is on hold until the movies and unless I'm misremembering he doesn't have a serious relationship with any of the crew under his command. 17 minutes ago, Aemon Stark said: I think to date Sisko is the only captain that's been shown to be married - a widower at first, and then later marrying Kassidy in the final arc of season 7. That seems to be accurate, although Discovery at least had Lorca have an affair. I must say I also find the later Enterprise plot with T'Pol and Trip stupid ... the first two seasons seemed to lay the groundwork for a future romance between Archer and T'Pol. That said - the Discovery setting of a lot of characters having a thing for each other - or married couples serving on the same ship - may take things a little far. Those people are constantly in mortal danger, and having to send a loved one on a mission that might very well kill them is a very hard thing to do and something that should better be avoided. Hence the reason why DS9 does this really well, especially when there are relationships between people who aren't directly connected in Starfleet's military hierarchy. But in Voyager the circumstances should have caused them to abandon all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 I've always wondered: It's pretty well implied that Barcley was fucking hologram versions of his co-workers on the enterprise Do you think he boned the simulated Voyager crew also? Do you think he ever did it as a salamander? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felice Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 hour ago, RumHam said: Do you think he ever did it as a salamander? Not on purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemon Stark Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 15 hours ago, Lord Varys said: They basically are the mother and father of the ship ... and it is actually Chakotay who is the mother and Janeway who is the father since she is the rational person with a more 'male-like' personality, whereas Chakotay is often portrayed as this intuitive, emotional person who has insight into things, etc. That actually works pretty well. And they really like each other, so if there was a relationship it should have been theirs. That episode where it seems like Janeway and Chakotay will be alone together (season 2 sometime) forever really could have gone somewhere... then it didn't. 15 hours ago, Lord Varys said: Yes, okay, he fucks, but not folks on the Enterprise. The Deanna thing is on hold until the movies and unless I'm misremembering he doesn't have a serious relationship with any of the crew under his command. We definitely see Riker hooking up at least in the background in Ten Forward. 15 hours ago, Lord Varys said: But in Voyager the circumstances should have caused them to abandon all that. Admittedly, this is is a problem throughout the whole series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Lord Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 On 6/10/2021 at 5:26 PM, Werthead said: Paris and B'Lanna do hook up, though she's not bridge crew. But yes, the Voyager crew don't have the warm familial feeling of the TNG crew or even the DS9 crew, which is weird, given the Voyager team are stuck together 24/7 on a pretty small starship. Personally, I'm a Harry-Neelix shipper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted June 16, 2021 Author Share Posted June 16, 2021 Apparently a season 2 trailer for Picard was released but the copies on Variety and Hollywood Reporter are no longer available. I don't know if that is a region block thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 Seems to be region blocked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted June 16, 2021 Author Share Posted June 16, 2021 All Good Things.... come in trilogies, I guess. Hey, thread has an appropriate title! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 So far, looks like pretty much what I expected: A what-if timeline, pretty much like they've done before with Q and Picard, only this time a "what if Picard had been able to save the Romulans"? And look, it would have been a quasi-fascist regime, either without the humans or at least not at the front and center of the federation!" tl;dr The End: Phew, thank goodness billions of innocents got killed in the real timeliene! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 57 minutes ago, Mindwalker said: So far, looks like pretty much what I expected: A what-if timeline, pretty much like they've done before with Q and Picard, only this time a "what if Picard had been able to save the Romulans"? And look, it would have been a quasi-fascist regime, either without the humans or at least not at the front and center of the federation!" tl;dr The End: Phew, thank goodness billions of innocents got killed in the real timeliene! I mean after the first season of this show, I wouldn't be surprised. The writing was horrible at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 Yeah, plotting/ character development are not their strong suits. BUT after posting it occurred to me that in the alt. timeline, Seven Spoiler doesn't have any implants. So unless she hasn't had them removed, that means she never got assimilated, which would put the point of divergence before te Romulan sun incident, right? I'm fuzzy on the date for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 The trailer's good, but then, so was the trailer for season 1. After the disastrous finale for S1, watching this is going to be very low on my list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 So there are 0 reasons to sign up for Paramount+ this year. I'm ok with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 See, I now have hope that Q will help rewrite the timeline to just erase the mess that was season 1 and that things can go back to normal... John de Lancie looks fantastic though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 On 6/16/2021 at 11:30 PM, Corvinus85 said: So there are 0 reasons to sign up for Paramount+ this year. I'm ok with that. I mean… they do have the new iCarly reboot… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.