felice Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 1 hour ago, IheartIheartTesla said: Although, thinking about it a bit more, I too am not sure if the 19th century meeting took place. Its in the past so it should not be affected by events AFTER the divergence, right? Right? It involves people travelling back in time from after the divergence, so it's affected by the divergence even though it happens before. Presumably Voyager's visit to the 1990s currently didn't happen either, and Sisko doesn't get caught up in the Bell Riots. Apparently no time travellers from post-2024 ever do anything that has a lasting impact on history. It seems history is resistant to change, tending back towards its original course unless you hit a weak spot like Edith Keeler or whatever happens on the 15th this season. I'll reserve judgement on how much sense it makes till the season is finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 1 hour ago, IheartIheartTesla said: Although, thinking about it a bit more, I too am not sure if the 19th century meeting took place. Its in the past so it should not be affected by events AFTER the divergence, right? Right? Interesting point. At the moment of divergence the time shift will happen and, from that point, 24th/25th Century Picard is an uber-fash general who presumably never time-travelled back to 19th Century SanFran and never met Guinan in that time period. However, this episode takes place before the divergence, so presumably without the interference, time would continue on its original course and she would remember meeting Picard or whoever went back in Time's Arrow (literally the most unmemorable of the TNG two-parters). Unless a change has already taken place but it hasn't triggered the divergence yet, in which case it's a grey area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Oh, someone made a good point that if Kirk and Spock still time travel back to 1986 and meet the punk, then the time travel back to the 1890s to meet Guinan should have still happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 10 minutes ago, Werthead said: Oh, someone made a good point that if Kirk and Spock still time travel back to 1986 and meet the punk, then the time travel back to the 1890s to meet Guinan should have still happened. Although I then read on Reddit a funny theory that he’s traumatised by Confederation Spock doing something far worse. But you could counter with Captain Braxton and his triggering of the boom in computers. You basically just can’t mix pre-destination stuff and malleable stuff at will. Thing is, they’ll clearly repair the timeline and save the day so once we’ve completed the season, there isn’t a divergence at all. EDIT: probably the best we can do is Doc Brown’s reasoning for travelling to 1955 instead of 2015 - because if they go there, it’ll be the ‘Biff is powerful’ future. So maybe by travelling back from the bad future, this is actually the Confederation timeline 2024 - it’s just that it’s largely irrelevant because other than Guinan never met Picard, it’s the same. And Janeway and Chakotay were just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Is it even the Evil Confederation Picard and crew though? Q obviously plucked them from the original timeline and stuck them there...Though I don't think that matters...yet, would Confederation Picard even know Guinan if he wasn't travelling back in time a la Time's Arrow? Or would Confederation Picard even have a relationship that would allow him to know enough about Guinan in general? The Confederation didn't seem to big on getting to know the aliens they conquered all that well... Essentially the sticking point seems to be that the divergence hasn't (apparently) occurred, so Guinan should still know Picard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartIheartTesla Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 An alternate theory I have is that the divergence has already occurred (with April 15th being a red herring) and therefore Guinan never met Picard. I mean, there is absolutely nothing to stop the Stargazer from going back in time after the divergence since Q essentially snapped them into the alternate timeline anyway. Recall that it was the Borg Queen who sent them back in time, and she could be lying about it (albeit in the Confederation her hive went kablooey, so she does have a vested interest in going pre-divergence) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Someone on Twitter suggested it isn't Picard on trial, but actually Q... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 13 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said: Someone on Twitter suggested it isn't Picard on trial, but actually Q... That'd be a nice idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 17 hours ago, DaveSumm said: Although I then read on Reddit a funny theory that he’s traumatised by Confederation Spock doing something far worse. That is funny, but I read something about Sarek's skull. Would there be a "Confederation Spock?" Still haven't watched any of Picard season two but it is tempting. Anyway I came here to post this: “Is This a Joke?” How a Classic ‘Star Trek’ Episode Broke the Rules of the Franchise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 32 minutes ago, RumHam said: Anyway I came here to post this: “Is This a Joke?” How a Classic ‘Star Trek’ Episode Broke the Rules of the Franchise Love that episode, and I forgot to mention that the latest Picard episode felt like they hadn’t quite ripped off enough plot points from TNG and did the whole ‘subconscious number relaying’ thing again (Data with ‘3’ to change the plan, Jurati with ‘15’.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartIheartTesla Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Q has already been on trial (sort of) in "Deja Q", where he was stripped of his powers for creating chaos across the universe. Hopefully we dont have a rehash of that concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 18 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said: Q has already been on trial (sort of) in "Deja Q", where he was stripped of his powers for creating chaos across the universe. Hopefully we dont have a rehash of that concept. Granted. But Picard and humanity of been on trial time and again. As Q says, "The trial never ends"...so it's possible it's ALL part of a trial on Q... I don't know if I'm actually advocating for that to be the twist, just that it's an interesting idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 On 3/25/2022 at 11:19 PM, IheartIheartTesla said: An alternate theory I have is that the divergence has already occurred (with April 15th being a red herring) and therefore Guinan never met Picard. I mean, there is absolutely nothing to stop the Stargazer from going back in time after the divergence since Q essentially snapped them into the alternate timeline anyway. I'm assuming the divergence has something to do with the Europa mission that Q seems to be trying to interfere with in the final scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 4 hours ago, williamjm said: I'm assuming the divergence has something to do with the Europa mission that Q seems to be trying to interfere with in the final scene. It's been suggested that the woman Q was trying to mess with is related to Picard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Finished Discovery S4 tonight. I think it's my favorite so far. Many small improvements that add up imho. For starters, the show works much better with Burnham in the chair. Since the show is her show, it works better narratively ; and paradoxically, it also allowed this season to do a much better job at developing the other characters. The episodes were also better structured overall, with Trek themes finally explored through a good dose of world-building and diplomacy. The major plot of the season had a satisfying conclusion. In fact, I'd say this is by far the most satisfying finale of a Discovery season, which helps overlook the fact that many flaws also remain. It feels like the show has finally found its footing, and it wouldn't take much now for it to be good. S5 already should have one good thing going for it: Spoiler Switching the romantic aspects of the story from Burnham and Book to Saru and T'Rina can only improve the show, so I hope they'll go down that road and avoid jumping into a redemption story for Book right at the beginning of S5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted March 28, 2022 Author Share Posted March 28, 2022 Unfortunately the punchline was assimilated. Watching part 2 of Unimatrix Zero, season 7 episode one for Voyager. Child: "They said you wanted to assim...assim.." Queen: "Assimilate you. Yes, that's nothing to be afraid of. You like having friends, don't you? Assimilation turns us all into friends. In fact it brings us so close together we can here each other's thoughts." Child: "Is that fun?" Queen: "........ Yes, it's fun." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Yikes. That's creepy. Picard S2 E4. I like 2024 Guinan. It never occurred to any of these people to get their hands on a cell phone? Skype? Anacronistic Cliche "obnoxious punk rocker with a boom box" is about 40 years out of date. I'm sure it's a callback to Star Trek 4 or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denvek Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said: Yikes. That's creepy. Picard S2 E4. I like 2024 Guinan. It never occurred to any of these people to get their hands on a cell phone? Skype? Anacronistic Cliche "obnoxious punk rocker with a boom box" is about 40 years out of date. I'm sure it's a callback to Star Trek 4 or something. It's not just a Star Trek 4 callback, it's literally the same actor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 8 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said: Anacronistic Cliche "obnoxious punk rocker with a boom box" is about 40 years out of date. Their spirit lives on in those kids who walk around listening to music from their phones without headphones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 10 hours ago, Denvek said: It's not just a Star Trek 4 callback, it's literally the same actor. He was also an associate producer on Trek 4, and played a punk in spiderman Homecoming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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