Jump to content
Angel Eyes

Prediction: Jaime’s fate

Recommended Posts

On 3/18/2021 at 4:18 AM, Makk said:

I doubt it. It would feel very underwhelming to me, especially given his more recent growth.

I believe Stoneheart intends to honor Robbs last wish and crown Jon Snow as King in the North. Part of that is that she needs some way to make the nights watch release Jon from his vows. I believe she will make Jaime take the black in exchange for Jon's release. Coincidentally she likely also power to resurrect Jon which is handy given his current predicament.

So I think his fate is to be the 1000th commander of the nights watch.

:agree:

Very interesting idea.

I also don´t believe Jaimes story will end with Stoneheart. GRRM has put too much effort in his POVs to have him simply die for no good reason. There has to be some payoff to his arc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/23/2021 at 12:26 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

He did save King's Landing..........

That remains to be seen.  The wildfyre caches are still there.  Maybe he just delayed it.  And part of the reason the wildfyre caches are still there is because he was too proud to warn anyone about them.  Because the lion does not explain himself to the wolf, or some such rot.  

It's like he killed the mad bomber who was trying to blow up the orphanage to save his own life, but than grandly walked away with a proud toss of his magnificent yellow head, leaving the ticking time bomb under the orphanage because he believes ON PRINCIPLE that no-one may question the right of a Lannister to commit murder.

Some hero!

King's Landing is going to explode, and, on balance, Jaime will not have saved any lives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/27/2021 at 3:27 PM, PrettyLittlePsycho said:

I also don´t believe Jaimes story will end with Stoneheart. GRRM has put too much effort in his POVs to have him simply die for no good reason. There has to be some payoff to his arc.

Well, I don't disagree with the first sentence, since I don't think Jaime will ever meet Stoneheart; nor do I think his story has ended with with his death (at Brienne's hands), any more than Catelyn death entirely ended her arc.

Your second sentence maybe proves too much.  There are an awful lot of arcs to which GRRM has arguably "put too much effort":   Ned, Cat, Tyrion, Rob, Jon Snow, Sansa, Arya, Bran, Danaerys, Sandor, Theon, Davos, Brienne, Jaime, Cersei, Samwell, Doran, Arianne, Quentyn, Euron, Aeron, Asha.  Surely they can't all be safe.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 3/17/2021 at 11:18 PM, Makk said:

I doubt it. It would feel very underwhelming to me, especially given his more recent growth.

I believe Stoneheart intends to honor Robbs last wish and crown Jon Snow as King in the North. Part of that is that she needs some way to make the nights watch release Jon from his vows. I believe she will make Jaime take the black in exchange for Jon's release. Coincidentally she likely also power to resurrect Jon which is handy given his current predicament.

So I think his fate is to be the 1000th commander of the nights watch.

Tell that to Ned Stark; once he grew and learned to play the Game of Thrones by lying to the smallfolk to deescalate a war and save his daughters, he lost his head.

If Lady Stoneheart intends to make Jaime take the black, why did she order Brienne to kill Jaime?

Edited by Angel Eyes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think Jaime's arc will end shortly with LSH. Fist he has to kill Cersei. I also think he must meet Bran. I believe he must go North, where the things matter.

LSH is a dead come back. I don't know why, but it's really bothering me. It must be pretty important. More than just killing some poor sods blamed for the dismiss of the Starks. I think she is somewhat like the Others, here to punish the sins of men. Totally hypothetical, buy she may feel Bran (or Bran may reach her), or the Others. And send Jaime North to help Bran.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 4/12/2021 at 11:01 AM, Angel Eyes said:

Tell that to Ned Stark; once he grew and learned to play the Game of Thrones by lying to the smallfolk to deescalate a war and save his daughters, he lost his head.

If Lady Stoneheart intends to make Jaime take the black, why did she order Brienne to kill Jaime?

Ned Stark's story in AGoT was all about the scales falling from his eyes, which is also mirrored in both Jon and Sansa. Specifically for Ned, his story is about learning that his best friend, the heroic warrior king Robert is actually a depressed, drunken fat slob who hates his life. Who orders hits on pregnant teenagers. Who lets the realm go bankrupt while he cheats on his ice queen wife. Ned's story is also high tragedy; he makes decisions based on flawed information and places too much trust in Littlefinger, all of which leads him to the black cells. Ned was always going to die in AGoT because there's nowhere to put him after that book. His character ark has more meaning to us as readers because he died early on, leaving important plot questions unanswered and a giant, Ned shaped hole in his family's life. 

That's how you set the stage for a meaningful character death, whether it's Ned, the protagonist of his book, or Viserys, the apparent antagonist in Dany's story; you show what they want, who they are as people, and why they are ill-suited to survival in the situations they find themselves in. And that brings us to Jaime.

Unlike Ned, Jaime is able to better adapt to his new situation of being a cripple. He also shows a desire to become a better version of himself, acting to protect Brienne, and then sending her to fulfil her oath to Cetelyn. He also tries to uphold his own oath to Cetelyn by not shedding more Tully or Stark blood. And finally, there is Jaime's growing estrangement from Cersei, whom he is starting to see clearly for the first time in his life, who he chose not to save in AFfC. We have both the groundwork for a larger character ark, and motivation on Jaime's part to commit to that ark. We also have unfinished business between the Lannister siblings that needs a resolution. My point is that, unlike Ned, whose story was finished when he died, Jaime, Cersei and Tyrion are not through screwing each other over yet.

My prediction goes something like this; Lady Stoneheart will give Jaime a similar "noose or sword" choice, and Jaime will choose "sword." The problem for him will be that he will need to kill Cersei. He will return to Kings Landing, where he experiences the classic human heart in conflict situation that GRRM loves over whether he should kill his sister. Meanwhile, fAegon, having been convinced by Tyrion to invade Westeros, will be on the cusp of taking the city. Cersei will order the city burned by wildfire, and Jaime will murder her to prevent her from killing everyone, bringing his story full circle. The irony will be that Cersei's order will be succesfully carried out, unlike Aerys, and Jaime will die alongside his sister as the city burns around them.

That is a prediction, of course. I have no idea that it will happen. I do think it makes for a better conclusion to Jaime's story than him just being killed by Lady Stoneheart. It also ends Cersei's story as well, and all as an indirect result of Tyrion convincing fAegon to invade. That's a much more epic end than Jaime just dying at the beginning of Winds.

Edited by Nathan Stark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/12/2021 at 4:01 PM, Angel Eyes said:

If Lady Stoneheart intends to make Jaime take the black, why did she order Brienne to kill Jaime?

Actually, didn t she order brienne to get jaime for her?

And I don't think LSH wants jaime to take the black. It will be brienne sugestion in order to save jaime's life. And what can LSH if someone choses to take the black instead of facing his trial? If only to prove to those that follow her that she still has some honor she has to send jaime there.

16 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

My prediction goes something like this; Lady Stoneheart will give Jaime a similar "noose or sword" choice, and Jaime will choose "sword." The problem for him will be that he will need to kill Cersei. He will return to Kings Landing, where he experiences the classic human heart in conflict situation that GRRM loves over whether he should kill his sister. Meanwhile, fAegon, having been convinced by Tyrion to invade Westeros, will be on the cusp of taking the city. Cersei will order the city burned by wildfire, and Jaime will murder her to prevent her from killing everyone, bringing his story full circle. The irony will be that Cersei's order will be succesfully carried out, unlike Aerys, and Jaime will die alongside his sister as the city burns around them.

There is no way that LSH will send jaime to KL once again. She thinks he is responsable for the red wedding! And she won't keep him prisoner because that didn't work the first time...

To me it is either death or the wall. I don't see any alternative given that jaime is missing for some time already...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, divica said:

There is no way that LSH will send jaime to KL once again. She thinks he is responsable for the red wedding! And she won't keep him prisoner because that didn't work the first time...

To me it is either death or the wall. I don't see any alternative given that jaime is missing for some time already...

Sure there is. We actually have precedent for Lady Stoneheart offering a "noose or sword" choice to a person she believes betrayed her family. She would have killed Brienne if not for Brienne's choice. I see no reason she wouldn't do the same for Jaime. Truth is that I don't see either Jaime or Cersei making it out of Winds alive. But it makes more sense for them to die together, with Jaime attempting to prevent Cersei from going all Targ on Kings Landing. I just don't see him going to the Nights Watch, and killing him off at the beginning of the next book is not particularly good story writing because it leaves too many loose ends.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

Sure there is. We actually have precedent for Lady Stoneheart offering a "noose or sword" choice to a person she believes betrayed her family. She would have killed Brienne if not for Brienne's choice. I see no reason she wouldn't do the same for Jaime. Truth is that I don't see either Jaime or Cersei making it out of Winds alive. But it makes more sense for them to die together, with Jaime attempting to prevent Cersei from going all Targ on Kings Landing. I just don't see him going to the Nights Watch, and killing him off at the beginning of the next book is not particularly good story writing because it leaves too many loose ends.

brienne wasn't responsable for robb's death. Brienne isn't a lannister. And she had hostages to garantee brienne would bring jamie back.

On the wall jamie can have a very interesting arc. First, he would know information about farya, LF, rhaegar, aegon, the boltons and who knows who else. And he is someone well informed about military problems and can compare the northern forces and the southern forces. All this seems important for jon and whoever is in charge of the north.

Then we also have brienne's feud with stannis. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, divica said:

Actually, didn t she order brienne to get jaime for her?

 

Both, I think. She wants her men or herself to take the kill. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Both, I think. She wants her men or herself to take the kill. 

I thought so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/25/2021 at 4:21 AM, BalerionTheCat said:

I don't think Jaime's arc will end shortly with LSH. First he has to kill Cersei.

He can die first and kill later.  Beric and Stoneheart have led the way.  Anyhow, he can't fulfil the valonquar prophesy until the Red God gives him his hand back, cause he needs "hands" (plural).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/26/2021 at 4:35 PM, Nathan Stark said:

She would have killed Brienne if not for Brienne's choice. 

Would have?  That's assuming things.  Stoneheart was not even present when Brienne screamed "sword".  And Lem's orders were not conditional.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/26/2021 at 4:09 PM, divica said:

Actually, didn t she order brienne to get jaime for her?

She ordered Brienne to KILL Jaime for her.  "Take the sword and kill the kingslayer".  And this echoes the oath she swore 3 times with regard to Renly's killer.  I sense a theme here.   And Brienne's dying word agreed to this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

Would have?  That's assuming things.  Stoneheart was not even present when Brienne screamed "sword".  And Lem's orders were not conditional.

It was Stoneheart who gave Brienne the choice to begin with. It is safe to say that if Brienne had not shouted "sword," she would have died, based on orders given by Stoneheart. So yes, I think Stoneheart would indeed have killed Brienne.

And no, there's no way I think Jaime is going to the Wall. Even when we consider @Mister Smikes's prediction that Jaime will die and become a fire wight, there's still the fact that Jaime fully intended to return to Kings Landing. He believes his place is at King Tommen's side as LC of the Kingsgaurd. Since there is so much going on between Jaime and Cersei that needs to be resolved, it makes much more sense from a narrative standpoint for both of their stories to conclude at Kings Landing. 

As I said earlier, Cersei and Jaime probably aren't going to survive TWoW. Cersei will choose to burn KL rather than surrender it, and Jaime will die trying to prevent her from doing so. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

It was Stoneheart who gave Brienne the choice to begin with.

Sure.  That was when they were in the cave.  Brienne rejected the offer.  Stoneheart issued her sentence "Hang them!"  Then Lem leads them out of the cave to hang them to carry out his orders.  Lem's orders were not conditional.  Stoneheart does not follow, as far as I can tell.

2 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

It is safe to say that if Brienne had not shouted "sword," she would have died, based on orders given by Stoneheart. So yes, I think Stoneheart would indeed have killed Brienne.

Of course!  I agree that she "would have" hanged  Brienne (and in fact did hang Brienne).

What I am challenging is the assumption that Brienne must necessarily have been cut down alive merely because of her dying scream.  Lem's orders were unconditional, and Stoneheart was not even (AFAIK) present to countermand her sentence.

Perhaps the significance of that final "word" is not that it saved Brienne's life.  Maybe its significance is that the word represents an oath and (according to GRRM in an SSM) fire wights are driven by their oaths.

2 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

And no, there's no way I think Jaime is going to the Wall. Even when we consider @Mister Smikes's prediction that Jaime will die and become a fire wight, there's still the fact that Jaime fully intended to return to Kings Landing. He believes his place is at King Tommen's side as LC of the Kingsgaurd. Since there is so much going on between Jaime and Cersei that needs to be resolved, it makes much more sense from a narrative standpoint for both of their stories to conclude at Kings Landing. 

Yes, I agree that Jaime (or UnJaime) will return to KL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

It was Stoneheart who gave Brienne the choice to begin with. It is safe to say that if Brienne had not shouted "sword," she would have died, based on orders given by Stoneheart. So yes, I think Stoneheart would indeed have killed Brienne.

And no, there's no way I think Jaime is going to the Wall. Even when we consider @Mister Smikes's prediction that Jaime will die and become a fire wight, there's still the fact that Jaime fully intended to return to Kings Landing. He believes his place is at King Tommen's side as LC of the Kingsgaurd. Since there is so much going on between Jaime and Cersei that needs to be resolved, it makes much more sense from a narrative standpoint for both of their stories to conclude at Kings Landing. 

As I said earlier, Cersei and Jaime probably aren't going to survive TWoW. Cersei will choose to burn KL rather than surrender it, and Jaime will die trying to prevent her from doing so. 

The problem here is that why would LSH spare jaime and release him? We are talking about 2 people that were in this situation before. LSH/cat even had tyrion in her possesion and lost him.

From whatever way you think about it she has had to learn that when you have a lannister you have to deal with him as fast as possible. There is no room to have them involved in clever plots. And to make matters worse she thinks jaime is involved in the RW and there isn't a thing they can say or show to convince her otherwise.

If jaime is to survive the only way I can think of is because he chose to take the black. And bringing jaime and brienne into the orbit of stannis, farya, jon and the things happening in the north seems pretty interesting.

On the other hand there isn't anything interesting for him to do in KL. Faegon, cersei, sand snakes, tyrells and even euron all have a MUCH more interesting role to play there than jaime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

She ordered Brienne to KILL Jaime for her.  "Take the sword and kill the kingslayer".  And this echoes the oath she swore 3 times with regard to Renly's killer.  I sense a theme here.   And Brienne's dying word agreed to this.

but she also told her that she wanted the kingslayer. That brieene should bring him there right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, divica said:

but she also told her that she wanted the kingslayer. That brieene should bring him there right?

His corpse?  Sure, why not?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

His corpse?  Sure, why not?

Even if LSH wanted her to kill jaime she could have taken him to help her to free podric. If they were sucessful or not I have a lot of doubts because jaime has been missing for weeks. But it isn't impossible that jaime got to LSH alive.

Briene could even not be able to kill him and take him to LSH so that she can hear jaime and see he changed.

Neither scenario seems impossible...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...