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Angel Eyes

Prediction: Jaime’s fate

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, LynnS said:

When I say the old gods, I'm including R'hllor since Jaqen H'gar includes him of fire in the oath he makes to Arya. 

Ok, but you might as well just say "all the gods" because Jaqen's oath was rather all-encompassing.

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Bran may need Jaime for something in the past/present/future; but it may be R'hllor who delivers him to Bran. 

At this late stage I am having trouble imagining Bran and Jaime meeting.  I'm not sure they will, at least not in the flesh.

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More specifically, it could be Mel who gives Jaime the firey kiss, since it's her mission to find and make the Warrior of Light. 

Maybe, but Mel is at the Wall and other more likely kissers. like Thoros or Stoneheart, are much nearer by.  I can, however, see Jaime becoming a sinister undead embodiment of Azor Ahai.

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Yes.  Mel also tells us that there can be no shadows without light.  It's curious that Bran isn't  shown the identities of the three figures: the shadow with the terrible face of the hound;  the shadow armoured like sun and the giant standing over them from behind.

Well, if the shadows are wights, then we are far enough into the future that the shadow with the hound face can probably no longer be considered to be Sandor.  Sandor has abandoned that identity and that face, and the Helm has moved on without him.

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The Undying would say that that the shadows are the shapes of things to come.  We can make a guess on the first two. 

My guess would be (under the "future wights" interpretation, which I am by no means sure of):  Jaime, and ... whoever the New Hound will be in coming volumes.

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The third is a bit more cryptic, but I think it represents the Titan of Braavos, it's founder, a faceless man.  

I'll just go with Robert Strong.  He's been wightified, so he fits my theory.  Which again suggests Bran is seeing the future, when Gregor has become a wight, and Sandor is no longer "the Hound".

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I agree, the lions that become gargoyles represent Cersei and Jaime, their souls twisted.  It's the supressed memory coming back into his dreams.   

Yes, that's one interpretation.  Alternatively, it may be a prophetic foreshadowing that they will become even more twisted -- as wights.  The vision, after all, does not seem to say merely that the lions are fierce, bloodthirsty and cruel.  It suggests they are no longer lions at all. 

Another vision that may blend echoes of the past with foreshadowing of the future is Brienne's dream of following Renly-who-is-not-Renly in some forest.

Edited by Mister Smikes

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4 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

Ok, but you might as well just say "all the gods" because Jaqen's oath was rather all-encompassing.

Sure, the same difference to me.

5 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

At this late stage I am having trouble imagining Bran and Jaime meeting.  I'm not sure they will, at least not in the flesh.

They don't have to meet in the flesh for Bran to use him in some capacity.  He can certainly come to him in his dreams in one form or another.  

7 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

Maybe, but Mel is at the Wall and other more likely kissers. like Thoros or Stoneheart, are much nearer by.

I think LSH's purpose is different from Mel's and I don't think she will pass on her animating force to Jaime in the same manner as Beric.  She still has other business driving her, mainly the crown she contemplates.   Thoros has already said that brining Beric back for a seventh time could be the end of both of them.  I take that to mean that his life force can't be used for resurrection any longer.  To me it's not a question of proximity. but timing.  I think to be a warrior of light; Jaime will have to be transformed by someone more powerful than LSH.  Someone with a purpose and a reason to do it.

14 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

Well, if the shadows are wights, then we are far enough into the future that the shadow with the hound face can probably no longer be considered to be Sandor.  Sandor has abandoned that identity and that face, and the Helm has moved on without him.

The terrible face puts me in mind of Sandor's burned face.  The face is part of someone's identity more than a name.

16 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

My guess would be (under the "future wights" interpretation, which I am by no means sure of):  Jaime, and ... whoever the New Hound will be in coming volumes.

'm not saying those three will all be wights, only that shadows according to the undying are the shapes of things to come.  That Jaime is armored in the sun would seem to point to his soul cleansed by fire.  

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

I'll just go with Robert Strong.

Yes that also.  Thick black blood of the demon.  

22 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

Yes, that's one interpretation.  Alternatively, it may be a prophetic foreshadowing that they will become even more twisted -- as wights.  The vision, after all, does not seem to say merely that the lions are fierce, bloodthirsty and cruel.  It suggests they are no longer lions at all. 

And yet, at the end of Dance,  Jaime is breaking away from Cersei in his heart and starting on his path to redemption.  Cersei brings out the worst in him, while Brienne is bringing out the best in him.

Edited by LynnS

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1 hour ago, LynnS said:

And yet, at the end of Dance,  Jaime is breaking away from Cersei in his heart and starting on his path to redemption.  Cersei brings out the worst in him, while Brienne is bringing out the best in him.

Well, I'll give you Jaime and Brienne.  She does bring out the best in him.  And in Jaime's weirwood dream, they are together in the underworld, and Jaime's hand is whole, and Brienne is more feminine.  This represents their spirits, not their bodies.  It also implies, however, that they are dead.

As for Jaime's break with Cersei ... I agree that it is best he stay away from her.  Otherwise, I don't see much in the way of a redemptive arc here.  This is most evident in Jaime's meeting with Lancel.  Lancel has also broken with Cersei, but he forgives her, and accepts that their relationship was his own fault as well.  Jaime's attitude is more of vengeful, jealous resentment (as if he really had any right to Cersei).  He hates Cersei, and Lancel too (and Kettleback, and Moonboy for all he knows).

But regardless of Jaime's glimmerings of redemption, they will not translate over when he becomes a fire wight.  These monsters preserve the worst in people, not their best, as we already saw with UnCat.  UnJaime will not be Jaime -- at least it will not be the best in Jaime.  Jaime has so far refrained from murdering Lancel, Kettleback, Moonboy and Cersei.  I don't think UnJaime will.  And Lancel did dream that Jaime would come to kill him.

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23 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

and Moonboy for all he knows

LOL!  Yes and Moonboy for all we know.  I don't have anything else to add at this point.  So I'm going to convert some left over roast beast into soup.  Thanks for brining up the possibilities here.  I wouldn't have taken another look, otherwise. 

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On 5/8/2021 at 3:28 PM, HoodedCrow said:

A girl has skills

A girl is also a foolish 11-12 year old in a death cult. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, HoodedCrow said:

A girl will do important things unknown foolish or not. 

Like... kill the Night King even though it's not her purpose?

Edited by Angel Eyes

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56 minutes ago, HoodedCrow said:

A girl survives King’s Landing, while her father does not:(

A girl is freaking lucky, she ain't no survival guru. 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, LynnS said:

I think LSH's purpose is different from Mel's and I don't think she will pass on her animating force to Jaime in the same manner as Beric. 

Mel is more analogous to Thoros, though more impressive.  She is a living person in her own right, with a mind of her own, and serving her god as best she understands.  My guess would be that Mel and Thoros are more like dupes or Rh'llor, whereas creatures like UnBeric and Stoneheart are more like slaves of Rh'llor.  But my guess would be that the same dark force is behind them both, and it has its own agenda -- one that dupes and slaves are not necessarily privy to.

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Thoros has already said that brining Beric back for a seventh time could be the end of both of them.  I take that to mean that his life force can't be used for resurrection any longer. 

I don't recall that.  I only recall Beric telling Thoros that six times was too many (for Beric).  Thoros also says that bringing back Beric gets harder each successive time he dies.  And, IIRC, Thoros refuses to bring back Catelyn, because Catelyn was too long dead, and not for any other reason.

In any event, it is unclear if Beric died because that was the only way to animate Catelyn's corpse, or if he simply wanted out.  It may be, for instance, that he passed on all 6 "charges" of the kiss of fire to Catelyn's corpse; so that now Catelyn can raise 5 people without laying down herself.  Or perhaps Catelyn is not even subject to that limitation, and we will soon have a red wight horde on our hand.   Who knows how it works?

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The terrible face puts me in mind of Sandor's burned face.  The face is part of someone's identity more than a name.

But neither a face nor a name are specified in the vision.   And by this time, Brienne's face is in as bad a shape as Sandor's -- maybe worse.

Edited by Mister Smikes

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Posted (edited)

I will cackle if Cersei/Jaime are the only ship that gets romantic overtures at the very end. Rooting for them just because it's fun and their relationship is iconic to the series. I even recognize some fanfic overtones. Right now Jaime is in the part of the fic where he's seething with jealousy that his girl is with someone else. Refuses to rush to her aid out of angst. But no biggie, she ends up saving herself. ...only to rush to her aid when she really needs it and she thinks he'll never come for her. Here for it!

Edited by Rose of Red Lake

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On 5/10/2021 at 12:40 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

Yes, but 11-12 year old kids are not known for being the wisest. 

She somehow managed to peg Joffrey and Cersei as bad people while Ned and Sansa could not.

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On 5/11/2021 at 6:50 PM, Rose of Red Lake said:

I will cackle if Cersei/Jaime are the only ship that gets romantic overtures at the very end. Rooting for them just because it's fun and their relationship is iconic to the series. I even recognize some fanfic overtones. Right now Jaime is in the part of the fic where he's seething with jealousy that his girl is with someone else. Refuses to rush to her aid out of angst. But no biggie, she ends up saving herself. ...only to rush to her aid when she really needs it and she thinks he'll never come for her. Here for it!

Romance and GRRM don't mix. It’s either arranged, Stockholm, disastrous, or has lots of uncomfortable undertones (like incest). 

Edited by Angel Eyes

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On 6/21/2021 at 10:56 AM, Angel Eyes said:

Romance and GRRM don't mix. It’s either arranged, Stockholm, disastrous, or has lots of uncomfortable undertones (like incest). 

Ned and Cat was fairly romantic and they had almost 15 solid years of happiness together, so it is possible. Although with the ending being "bittersweet" I doubt too much romance will happen.

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15 hours ago, StarksInTheNorth said:

Ned and Cat was fairly romantic and they had almost 15 solid years of happiness together, so it is possible. Although with the ending being "bittersweet" I doubt too much romance will happen.

They’re the exception and would fall under the arranged category. 

Edited by Angel Eyes

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