Incomes,Taxes and cost of managing the North

[Mrstrategy]

Realistically how many gold dragons would the Stark income be in taxes and other earning from their lands/trade  and vassal's each year and how much of that do they spend in maintaining winterfell as well as cost of staff,Garrison's and other cost of a medieval ruler like paying kings taxes?

[Loose Bolt]

I assume that most people in WF work for room and and board and main revenue of VIPs come from their own lands. Besides Broken Tower is still broken though it was ruined over century ago so Starks seem to do minimal maintenance even in Winterfell. 

[Aebram]

Those questions may be difficult to answer. The books contain only a few examples of prices for specific items: horses, armor, prizes at tournaments, etc. And it is known that GRRM is not very precise about numbers such as prices and population sizes.

The best solution might be to read about the history of real-life castles here on Earth, that are similar to Winterfell in their size, location, etc.  There are probably some old ledger books and other documents that have been preserved, that will tell about things such as prices and budgets.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Instead, look at the equivalent wealth that would be required for someone to achieve the same effect with gold that the Starks achieve through power.

How much gold would it cost to raise 20,000 troops and logistically support them for a year, over a distance of 1000 miles, including their support animals, supplies, armour and provisions? A gold dragon per week per man?  I think that’s a low estimate, all inclusive.

That’s a million gold dragons for a 1 year campaign. Robb achieves that at a mere command. 

Similarly, what does it cost to build a new war galley? 100 gold dragons? 1000? Manderly builds 50 of them just from witholding Royal taxes on White Harbor for a year. And says his vaults are overflowing, implying that he is getting richer rather than poorer while doing it.

Edit

And this is after he paid 3000 gold dragons to ransom his son, built a mile long wall to fortify his harbor, supported 1500 men with Robb in the South, conducted a low level war with the Boltons in the Hornwood lands, and sent 12 barges packed with men and supplies to support Ser Rodrik at Winterfell.

After all that, he tells Davos his money vaults are still overflowing.

[SeanF]

A lot this will be payment in kind, eg a proportion of crops, game, furs, timber.  And, of course, another payment in kind is so many days a year military service, if the Starks demand it, of their vassals, the tenants on their own demesne lands, and their vassals' tenants.

 

[Moiraine Sedai]

On 3/13/2021 at 10:31 PM, Mrstrategy said:

Realistically how many gold dragons would the Stark income be in taxes and other earning from their lands/trade  and vassal's each year and how much of that do they spend in maintaining winterfell as well as cost of staff,Garrison's and other cost of a medieval ruler like paying kings taxes?

The north does not compare to the Reach.  It's revenues will be much smaller. But the upkeep on a utilitarian castle such as Winterfell will not be as high.  

This part of Westeros go through periods of lean times. Income in the form of revenues will reflect that.

[Jaak]

Compare Three Kingdoms of Britain.

And an example date around 1530 - before some changes in all kingdoms.

Harry VIII-s revenue fluctuated year to year, but £ 130 000 sterling seems to have been typical before Reformation.

In 1528, when James V fired his chancellor and stepdaddy Angus, his revenues were about £ 24 000 - Scots. The exchange rate was at about 4 £ Scots for £ sterling - meaning he had just £ 6000 sterling per year. Less than 1/20 of what his uncle had.

Note that it was cash actually collected and accounted by state agents. Scotland had about 1/5 the population and therefore 1/4 the per capita revenue.

Duke of Buckingham had almost as much cash revenue as King of Scotland. And yet Duke of Buckingham could be, and was, arrested and beheaded the way King of Scotland could not be.

The reason is that by 16th century England used to pay almost all soldiers. Whereas while Scotland did pay some soldiers, Scotland also made heavy use of unpaid military service. While the loose hard currency of Scotch state was 1/20 that of English one, the military capability was a bigger fraction. King of Scotland was protected by unpaid service the way Duke of Buckingham was not.

And in Ireland... In 1533...1534, the whole revenue of Dublin Castle was about £ 1600... Irish. Exchange rate 1 mark sterling for 1 pound Irish, making the revenue under £ 1100 sterling. 120 times less than the revenue of England. Since Ireland had 1/3 the population of England, it makes about 1/40 per capita revenue.

Yet Kildares ruled the whole Ireland for King - not just Pale. As was proven in 1506 at Knockdoe. A Irish chief had been aggrandizing himself. Kildare collected an army (again largely unpaid service and allies!), marched all across Ireland to Connaught, defeated the rival and put an end to his ambitions.

Feeble and tenuous as Dublin Castle administration was outside the Pale, it discharged the one function of successfully striking down anyone else from centralizing around a rival powerbase.

You have plausible examples with 40 times difference in per capita revenue. Where do you think did Winterfell fall?

[Lord Varys]

The fact that there isn't much gold to be had in Winterfell - they talk about silver being in the vaults - chances are not that big that the Starks make much money. They also seem to lack the ready coin to rebuild and restore some of the ruined buildings in Winterfell. The broken tower has been broken for a long time, neither Ned, nor Catelyn/Robb make any effort to rebuild the library tower, etc.