Falcon and The Winter Soldier (spoilers)

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I think the opening episode was interesting for going personal.  Creating smaller stories about the two main Characters attempting to live their lives in a world very different from what they both used to know.  

It also does a nice job in letting the viewers know things are in flux.  I’m glad they are going there and attempting to give us more of how the MCU world has changed.  

Lots of questions to be answered.

French Terrorist kidnappers?

[sifth]

I really liked this first episode. The CGI alone is possibly some of the best I've seen on a tv show.

[Rhom]

Agreed with both of you.  It opened with the shootey/explodey thing I expected and then swerved into the more personal aspects.  Thats the advantage Disney+ gives us.  Time to spend with Sam and Bucky and not just with Falcon and Winter Soldier.  

I don't figure they would have released this prior to Black Widow if there were direct ties, but on the French Terrorist Kidnappers and mysterious super soldier bank robber anarchist (wait... isn't that the plot of Dark Knight Rises?!!?) I was wondering if there might have been set up from BW.   

I first thought that Yuri (was that the old man's name?) was an old war buddy of Bucky's but I guess he was actually on his My Name is Earl list instead?

[Quijote Light]

As to the super powered bank robbers, Power Broker’s name is shown in the first part of the credits. Whether he’s a terrorist or just selling powers to the highest bidder remains to be seen. It’ll be interesting to see if the delivery method is based in n the super soldier formula or not. And I assume the new Cap will be taking it. Maybe getting a little over aggressive a la the guy in the comics who later became US Agent.

Really enjoyed this. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

35 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Agreed with both of you.  It opened with the shootey/explodey thing I expected and then swerved into the more personal aspects.  Thats the advantage Disney+ gives us.  Time to spend with Sam and Bucky and not just with Falcon and Winter Soldier.  

I don't figure they would have released this prior to Black Widow if there were direct ties, but on the French Terrorist Kidnappers and mysterious super soldier bank robber anarchist (wait... isn't that the plot of Dark Knight Rises?!!?) I was wondering if there might have been set up from BW.   

I first thought that Yuri (was that the old man's name?) was an old war buddy of Bucky's but I guess he was actually on his My Name is Earl list instead?

Bucky’s 106 years old.  He’s highly unlikely to have any “war buddies” left living at this point.  

To put it another way both my Grandfathers served in Europe during World War II.  If they were still alive my Maternal Grandfather would be 106 this year.  My Paternal Grandfather would be 100.  There aren’t that many left of the “Greatest Generation” who served in WWII.

[JGP]

Solid first episode, agree with all the sentiments above. I was so disappointed when the credits hit, I'm wondering if I should wait on this to be complete then binge the entire series. Likely won't be able to, but the roll out definitely has the long ass movie style feel.

[Rhom]

44 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Bucky’s 106 years old.  He’s highly unlikely to have any “war buddies” left living at this point.  

To put it another way both my Grandfathers served in Europe during World War II.  If they were still alive my Maternal Grandfather would be 106 this year.  My Paternal Grandfather would be 100.  There aren’t that many left of the “Greatest Generation” who served in WWII.

Not many.  But my wife's step-grandfather just passed away in 2019 and he served in the Navy during WW2.    Was just my initial thought, but then realized that yeah, that guy was probably 20-30 years too young.

[karaddin]

That was probably the hardest emotional hit of the episode when the realization hits of who he is and why Bucky is spending time with him. Carrying the guilt for actions that your body did but you had no control over is certainly an effective angle for them to explore.

Also quite interesting to see Sam's financial situation. After all the time around Tony is easy to think they all have plenty of money, but it's absolutely believable he'd find himself in that situation. They continue to tease at interesting angles with the tension between the clippers and the leftovers. I hope that's not all it is.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

23 minutes ago, karaddin said:

That was probably the hardest emotional hit of the episode when the realization hits of who he is and why Bucky is spending time with him. Carrying the guilt for actions that your body did but you had no control over is certainly an effective angle for them to explore.

Also quite interesting to see Sam's financial situation. After all the time around Tony is easy to think they all have plenty of money, but it's absolutely believable he'd find himself in that situation. They continue to tease at interesting angles with the tension between the clippers and the leftovers. I hope that's not all it is.

I got the impression they were hitting the racial aspect of discrimination in lending square on the head in that scene with the loan officer attempting to cover up that aspect with his fanboying for “Falcon”.

[DMC]

Just finished it.  Very solid first episode overall.  Gotta say I'm not really a big fan of Sam's financial difficulties.  It's fine for an episode or two but I hope that's not a major aspect of the show.  There's plenty of ways to make money when you're world famous.  Plus he clearly seems to be working with the military on some type of level, so you'd think he'd be getting paid for that.

[Quijote Light]

2 minutes ago, DMC said:

Just finished it.  Very solid first episode overall.  Gotta say I'm not really a big fan of Sam's financial difficulties.  It's fine for an episode or two but I hope that's not a major aspect of the show.  There's plenty of ways to make money when you're world famous.  Plus he clearly seems to be working with the military on some type of level, so you'd think he'd be getting paid for that.

He’s working with the military now, but he’d been a fugitive for two years before Infinity War happened. 

[Rhom]

4 minutes ago, DMC said:

Just finished it.  Very solid first episode overall.  Gotta say I'm not really a big fan of Sam's financial difficulties.  It's fine for an episode or two but I hope that's not a major aspect of the show.  There's plenty of ways to make money when you're world famous.  Plus he clearly seems to be working with the military on some type of level, so you'd think he'd be getting paid for that.

Yeah, he was probably paid like a high ranking Air Force specialist before Civil War.  But as the banker said, he has no income for five years...

As you say, he’s world famous and obviously isn’t shy about posing for a picture or even trying to use that fame to grease the gears of a financial transaction.  Seems there’s a lot of ways he could monetize that, but I also didn’t get the feel that Sam personally was in dire financial straights but the family business was.

[JGP]

7 minutes ago, Quijote Light said:

He’s working with the military now, but he’d been a fugitive for two years before Infinity War happened. 

Indeed, and then was gone for the duration of the snap. As Sam said, he could provide his current contract-- but it doesn't resolve the gaps in his income history that of course is a major part of assessing lend risk. It's legit, but to an extent feel like DMC about it. I imagine it'll pose some kind of moral dilemma for Sam, however, at some point in the series, ie: an opportunity to just take money, or something like.

[Rhom]

2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I got the impression they were hitting the racial aspect of discrimination in lending square on the head in that scene with the loan officer attempting to cover up that aspect with his fanboying for “Falcon”.

I don't want to veer too far into real life controversial topics... I tend to agree that there were undertones of that.  I will also say in full seriousness, what was the bank supposed to do?  A failing business comes in with no discernible income.  Everything is complicated by the fact that I'm sure the banking industry has gone through a massive strain/collapse in the five years like most industries probably did.

I opened my practice in 2006 while married to my first wife.  In 2008, we divorced and I needed to refinance the loan into my name alone.  I used the same bank that I had always banked with.  The chairman of the board has the same last name as me (somewhat distant cousin, but everyone always assumes he's my uncle or my dad.)  I was denied.  At 30 years of age, I was told that I would need to get my mother or my father to co-sign for me.  When I expressed my "displeasure" with that arrangement, I was told that because my wife had an income the initial loan was based on that; not future projections.  I think I bit the bullet and had my mom sign it with me and then paid it off as soon as I reasonably could.  Today, I went into a different bank and called from the parking lot, walked in and signed papers to extend a six figure line of credit that I hope not to need to use; but wanted to keep open post-pandemic.   But I now have 15 years of income history for the office, not just a business plan with sky high hopes.

Banks still have to make decisions on facts.  I don't expect the show to dig any further into this and fully expect we'll never see the Falcon's Number One fan ever on the show again. 

[RumHam]

He should just spray paint his wings green, rob a bank and blame the vulture.

[DMC]

To be clear my aversion to Sam's financial difficulties are about his ability to make money now, not specifically the bank denying a loan.  And like I said, I'm fine with it for an episode or two, but that's..generally not what I care to watch when it comes to MCU content.  Strange and Wong bantering about a metaphysical ham on rye?  Totally fine.  Delving into how the wizards actually make money?  Yeah I don't really care.  Not to mention, if it really means that much to Sam, just bite the bullet and ask Pepper for a loan.

[Rhom]

43 minutes ago, DMC said:

To be clear my aversion to Sam's financial difficulties are about his ability to make money now, not specifically the bank denying a loan.  And like I said, I'm fine with it for an episode or two, but that's..generally not what I care to watch when it comes to MCU content.  Strange and Wong bantering about a metaphysical ham on rye?  Totally fine.  Delving into how the wizards actually make money?  Yeah I don't really care.  Not to mention, if it really means that much to Sam, just bite the bullet and ask Pepper for a loan.

I mean, you would think Tony might have set up some sort of financial plan to continue the funding of the Avengers.   

[Poobah]

Yeah I agree it's a bit... incongruous I suppose? I get that it's trying to handle a real and serious issue, and also do some worldbuilding about post-blip and return earth is but it does seem ridiculous that Sam can be going around the world Avenging, be an incredibly famous celebrity and still in financial trouble. Then again he did apparently just give away for free an object that's inherently incredibly valuable for its vibranium alone without even considering that being Cap's shield makes it a priceless and unique artefact so Also kinda makes Tony seem like even more of an asshole if he never bothered to hand out a few cheques or set up some kind of "Avengers discretionary fund" or whatever or hell just leave them a little Stark Industries stock in his will or something.

[DMC]

Maybe all of Stark's money is tied up funding projects for, apparently, anyone who goes to MIT.

[john]

5 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Bucky’s 106 years old.  He’s highly unlikely to have any “war buddies” left living at this point.  

They have a line where Yuki is apparently looking at the obituaries in the paper and he says “nobody even made it to 90.” I think at that point we’re supposed to think he is an old war buddy, it’s possible if he’s in his late nineties. Then you get the reveal. I was kind of unsatisfied with that reveal because I’d figured his son had died more recently than he must have.

2 hours ago, DMC said:

To be clear my aversion to Sam's financial difficulties are about his ability to make money now, not specifically the bank denying a loan.

I don’t really get the loan thing either. He’s incredibly famous, has contracts signed and a highly specialised role that’s apparently more in demand than ever. It’s a small town bank but where exactly is the risk? It seemed like a clumsy bit of writing to illustrate the problems of the blip.