Jump to content

Falcon and The Winter Soldier (spoilers)


Ser Scot A Ellison

Recommended Posts

It's probably because I don't read the comics, but I really don't get what this complaint about Hulk's origins is actually about.  I mean, Incredible Hulk makes it clear it's due to gamma radiation - and this is even Banner's reasoning for (possibly) being able to survive putting on the gauntlet in Endgame.  

Is it because his gamma accident is tied to the super soldier serum?  I think that makes sense - that the government/Ross would hire Banner to perfect/amplify/whatever the serum.  I agree that there should be more ways than just the serum to get superpowers in the MCU, but that's pretty much how I interpreted Incredible Hulk.  Obviously, whatever happened to Banner is significantly different than all other serum takers, and the combination of the serum with Banner's blood makes Blonsky an abomination.  Thought that fit just fine in the movie and in the MCU.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fight scene with the Flag Smashers when Lamar went down felt like the airport showdown in Civil War.

Everyone’s fighting because... well because reasons.  It’s all fun and games until the natural consequences of that fight is someone getting their eye poked out.  (Or spine snapped... cranium smashed... whatever.)

Everyone stops and says “Wait... someone got hurt?!!!?” in both scenarios.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Rhom said:

I know they’ve essentially wiped Incredible Hulk from existence, but having Isaiah and other fully functioning Super Soldiers just walking around really does negate all the testing they did with Blonsky. 

Not wiped from existence, since Blonksy / Abomination is going to be in She-Hulk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DMC said:

It's probably because I don't read the comics, but I really don't get what this complaint about Hulk's origins is actually about.  I mean, Incredible Hulk makes it clear it's due to gamma radiation - and this is even Banner's reasoning for (possibly) being able to survive putting on the gauntlet in Endgame.  

Is it because his gamma accident is tied to the super soldier serum?  I think that makes sense - that the government/Ross would hire Banner to perfect/amplify/whatever the serum.  I agree that there should be more ways than just the serum to get superpowers in the MCU, but that's pretty much how I interpreted Incredible Hulk.  Obviously, whatever happened to Banner is significantly different than all other serum takers, and the combination of the serum with Banner's blood makes Blonsky an abomination.  Thought that fit just fine in the movie and in the MCU.

OK, so I will try to keep this short because I can go on about it at length. :p

The comics character of Bruce Banner/the Hulk works like this. As a child, Bruce has a terribly abusive father. His response to this is to bottle up his emotions and channel his energy into science. He's a genius, but incredibly emotionally repressed.

He works for the military developing the gamma bomb. His attitude to developing a weapon of mass destruction is that it's all about the science. He does not engage with the implications of what he's doing at all, because as I say, repressed. But it's no accident that this ticking time bomb of a man is working on a bomb.

The test day comes, and Rick Jones is out there on the test site on a bet - itself a wild, irrational action in contrast to Banner's completely repressed personality. Banner sees Jones out there, and what happens? He snaps. He finally sees the human cost of his pet project: a kid is going to die. And this finally, finally breaks through and engages his emotional reactions. Madly, impulsively, he rushes out to the test site himself and pushes Jones into a ditch, saving Jones' life but exposing himself to the gamma bomb explosion - which transforms him into the Hulk.

The Hulk, a creature of emotion, id, and rampant violence, is born from the detonation of a weapon of destruction at the very moment a man who was violently abused as a child breaks through the walls he has placed around his emotions out of fear of his own anger. The metaphor is not subtle - the Hulk as an embodied weapon of mass destruction - but it's perfect and it has fuelled decades of stories.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, mormont said:

OK, so I will try to keep this short because I can go on about it at length. :p

Thanks.  My familiarity with this origin is mostly based on the depiction in Ang Lee's film, which I wasn't much a fan of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@mormont - I agree unequivocally on that rundown...but the repressed anger and the abusive upbringing, that's all stuff Peter David brought to the table in the late 80s/early 90s, was it not? Off of some Mantalo groundwork? Stan Lee was looking for a straight up Dr. Jekyll and Mister Hyde riff...but then, Lee wasn't always the best at knowing what he was creating deep down, did he? In an interpretative manner I mean.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Maltaran said:

I watched the film last weekend and that is not at all clear.

Not to start a hastag campaign but there's apparently a whole different cut of that movie that Ed Norton had a lot of control over before the studio recut it into what we got. In the process they condensed all the origin stuff into an opening credits sequence where's it's shown as I recall without dialogue. 

This is also the reason Michael K Williams is in the movie for a second but without any lines. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, RumHam said:

Not to start a hastag campaign but there's apparently a whole different cut of that movie that Ed Norton had a lot of control over before the studio recut it into what we got. In the process they condensed all the origin stuff into an opening credits sequence where's it's shown as I recall without dialogue. 

This is also the reason Michael K Williams is in the movie for a second but without any lines. 

Edward Cut?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

@mormont - I agree unequivocally on that rundown...but the repressed anger and the abusive upbringing, that's all stuff Peter David brought to the table in the late 80s/early 90s, was it not? Off of some Mantalo groundwork? Stan Lee was looking for a straight up Dr. Jekyll and Mister Hyde riff...but then, Lee wasn't always the best at knowing what he was creating deep down, did he? In an interpretative manner I mean.  

Not to do one of those 'want to feel old?' posts, but yeah: although Banner had always been shown as emotionally repressed, the childhood abuse stuff was introduced in the mid-80s, around two decades after the character was created. But that was 35 years ago, so it has now been a key part of the Hulk's origin for most of the character's publication history.

6 hours ago, briantw said:

I hope the twist at the end is that Zemo is the new Captain America.  He's the hero we need.

I think it says something about this series that the breakout character is the guy who killed T'Challa's father and blew up the UN.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey got a question about Cap's shield because twitter has been talking about the scene where they disable Bucky's arm and one of them looks for a second like they're gonna take the shield and the just absolute tons of implications for both those things.

Are we ever told the Vibranium for the shield, either first or second, comes from Wakanda? Like it's known that that's where the great majority of it comes from there but not that that's literally the only place its ever been found. Like Stark says that's literally all they've got and to me that implied it was like gathered in small amount from meteors rather than being from Wakanda. Mostly because I can't help but think that if 1940's America had even the slightest indication that this super metal was in Wakanda they'd be sending people there to try and find out if there was any more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

Are we ever told the Vibranium for the shield, either first or second, comes from Wakanda?

I think all we're told Howard Stark got the metal from "deepest Africa", but it's never been explicit that it came from Wakanda -- in the comics, Wakanda has by far the biggest amount of it, but the meteorite that deposited it broke up and smaller pieces ended up elsewhere, like the Savage Land. So it's possible his source isn't Wakanda, but some small find elsewhere. Or it was vibranium from Wakanda that travelled out of there for some reason.

The second shield was definitely made in Wakanda.

In the comics, I don't believe the source of the vibranium Dr. Mclain used to make the shield was either explained, but it was clear that they only had a little bit. The first discovery by Europeans/Americans of vibranium was in Antractica, so perhaps that's the source in the Marvel comics universe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Ran said:

 

In the comics, I don't believe the source of the vibranium Dr. Mclain used to make the shield was either explained, but it was clear that they only had a little bit. The first discovery by Europeans/Americans of vibranium was in Antractica, so perhaps that's the source in the Marvel comics universe.

I was just rereading some of the Captaon America comics that had the guy who made the shield...#302 and #303 if you care...the original shield is only part vibranium, as he was experimenting with other things too, fell asleep waiting on some things to heat up, and never was able to figure out how the metals bonded and that was that...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...