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Ser Scot A Ellison

Falcon and The Winter Soldier (spoilers)

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9 hours ago, Werthead said:

Sam's cover name being Conrad Mack, which I took to be a nod towards  Anthony Mackie's real name (though I don't think anyone actually called him Mackie).

I was too distracted by the nickname I blanked on what that guy's "real name" was and didn't even notice it

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I think this is my favourite MCU production after Ragnarok. Anthony Mackie and Sebastian Stan work well together. The plot is whatever it is, but I enjoyed the brief John Wick-ish moments in Madripoor.

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1 hour ago, williamjm said:

While I agree her story is clearly not true (or not entirely true) presumably Sam and Bucky are pardoned because they fought Thanos and saved half the Universe, Sharon wasn't involved in that battle.

I can see the argument that it's wrong that Steve didn't seek her out during the Blip before Endgame...he could have fixed things for her...

But then, I can believe that she's actually in some sort of Deep Cover and he knew she was doing spy work elsewhere...

We'll see...

35 minutes ago, karaddin said:

I was too distracted by the nickname I blanked on what that guy's "real name" was and didn't even notice it

Except he's a real character, this "Smiling Tiger" with a sorta similar name to Anthony Mackie...

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Conrad_Mack_(Earth-616)

 

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After the first two episodes got off the mark and into gear in great fashion, this episode felt like a poor transition from 2nd gear to 3rd gear. Zemo is great, and there was a lot pretty scenes and nifty action but they need to transition better heading into the next episodes.

I don't think Sharon is the Power Broker, though the open display of being an arts dealer seems to shout it out. At least not the Power Broker that Zemo may have had heard of. Wouldn't be surprised if she had Dread Pirate Roberts into becoming the current Power Broker.

Since Sam and Bucky are off the books I wonder if they could keep Zemo around as a sugar daddy to fund their operations.

Madripoor revealed - check. Since we're gallivanting around Eastern Europe (Prague passing for Riga and Vilnius), all they need is to head south a bit into Von Doom land. If we recognition of Latveria, I'd be happy.  

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How is someone like Zemo still rich? There is no government in the world that will lay off assets it can seize.

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Eh, not the greatest episode IMO. Whole thing felt disjointed, like they had a list of scenes and weren't entirely sure how to get from one to the other.

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10 hours ago, williamjm said:

If so then I'm wondering what her motivation is behind helping them? Maybe hoping that they take down the Flagsmashers and she could then retrieve the remaining serum in the aftermath, but if that's the plan then why the line about "we have two new problems"? I also can't imagine the Power Broker wants the Doctor killed since if he made the serum once he could do it again given time.

To be fair, Sharon didn't want the doctor killed. That was all Zemo.

6 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

How is someone like Zemo still rich? There is no government in the world that will lay off assets it can seize.

Presumably those assets were somewhere they couldn't reach. Likely owned by a company with no official links to Zemo.

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3 hours ago, mormont said:

To be fair, Sharon didn't want the doctor killed. That was all Zemo.

True, but it's not exactly a surprise that would happen if Zemo is put in the same room as him given his history with ex-Hydra super soldier programs.

9 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

How is someone like Zemo still rich? There is no government in the world that will lay off assets it can seize.

If he's from a European aristocratic background his family may well have had some Swiss bank accounts and they've done business with worse people than Zemo.

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On 4/2/2021 at 4:46 PM, Rhom said:

@red snow I agree the phone call was lazy.  It was also unnecessary.  Have someone shoot her out of the blue and then send the text about the bounty on their heads for her death as already seen.  :dunno: 

I also really liked what they did with Zemo.  He had some good psychological interactions with both.  I also liked the line "Only in America is a forward fashioned African American considered a pimp."  :lol: 

I hadn't thought about the possibility of Sharon as the Power Broker, but that really would make a lot of sense.  How she found the scientist when supposedly only the dead bar owner knew.  The wealth of being able to hold a rave amongst all the lost art.  

Exactly, there were so many other ways they could have engineered a fight in that scene without making Sam look an idiot.

One of the things I liked about zemo was that it did fit his depiction in civil war in terms of him using his intelligence and personality to achieve his goals. He was working on the two of them throughout the episode with little nudges and reminders he had an argument in doing what he did.

Sharon as the power broker makes a lot of sense in hindsight. 

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22 hours ago, RumHam said:

He was never hydra in the MCU. He was just a Sokovian special forces soldier.

It's a bit weird that he apparently killed scientists when they got close to re-created the super soldier serum. I thought he only began to hate powered people when the avengers fought Ultron and his family was killed. Then he started plotting to take down the avengers. Then he was in jail until now. 

This is what I thought too but this episode and the last one made it sound as if he was an expert on all things hydra. Guess he can be an expert without being hydra and it's always easier to like a villain when they aren't nazis.

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So far I'm not really feeling this. It feels like a mid to low tier Marvel movie. The action scenes are mostly fine but everything else feels a bit lightweight an half-assed. Especially the banter between Sam and Bucky is not working for me at all, Sam has better chemistry with Torres than he has with Bucky.

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1 hour ago, red snow said:

This is what I thought too but this episode and the last one made it sound as if he was an expert on all things hydra. Guess he can be an expert without being hydra and it's always easier to like a villain when they aren't nazis.

Yeah, that feels like a retcon to me. Along with the idea that he was hunting super-soldier scientists at some point. Oh and him being a Baron. Like go listen to him talk about his children staying with his grandparents outside the city and thinking they'd be safe in Civil War. He does not come off as a baron or an especially wealthy man. 

The only info he had on Hydra in Civil war was what Widow leaked, and his book. He was interrogating Hydra people for info just to find the super soldier bunker. and only because he wanted the tape of Bucky killing Mr. and Mrs. Stark. His hatred was pretty specifically directed at The Avengers. Though he did tell Bucky "did you really think I wanted more like you around" or something to explain his killing the other Winter Soldiers.

That said, I like new mildly retconned Zemo! 

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Posted (edited)

I thought this last episode was really, really contrived.  And kind of stupid.  So Bucky springs Zemo out of jail, even though he is a mass murderer who among others killed the king of a country.  So he can do what exactly?  Lead them to seedy places where they can try to track down someone who is giving super steroids to a group that’s giving vaccines out to poor people?  

Seems like trying to kill a fly in your house with a flame thrower.  And they act surprised when he starts killing people without their ok?  

And I thought the dialogue was pretty painful too.

So far, this show hasn’t done the one thing that made WandaVision a success in my eyes.  And that is get me more invested in some of the minor characters who I didn’t care about from the movies.  So far the two protagonists have been pretty much paint by the numbers white guy brooding anti-hero, and black guy without any real faults who is a real family guy.  Yawn.  Whoever said “Lethal Weapon” is spot on.  

 

Edited by Frey family reunion

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Yeah this episode was quite dull to be honest. I think the least interesting part of the whole show so far has been Sam and Bucky. I just don’t enjoy their chemistry, it’s forced and it doesn’t work. I really don’t like their spy act either. 
 

I wanted to see more of John Walker, I even like the flag smasher people more and I didn’t think I’d say that.


 

 

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10 minutes ago, RumHam said:

The only info he had on Hydra in Civil war was what Widow leaked, and his book. He was interrogating Hydra people for info just to find the super soldier bunker. and only because he wanted the tape of Bucky killing Mr. and Mrs. Stark. His hatred was pretty specifically directed at The Avengers. Though he did tell Bucky "did you really think I wanted more like you around" or something to explain his killing the other Winter Soldiers.

When he is interrogating the Hydra veteran at the start of Civil War he does make a comment along the lines of thinking that Hydra should be obliterated so he feels no guilt about torturing him, although it does feel more like general dislike rather than his main motivation.

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40 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

So far, this show hasn’t done the one thing that made WandaVision a success in my eyes.   

Marvel seems to quite often make something that could be truly excellent, but then bottle it and fall back on basic superhero stuff. WandaVision was better when it was bold, but then it felt it had to have a magic battle to finish off. So far, F&WS feels like it wants to be a lower key story about how Sam feels about taking on the mantle. Seeing John Walker act like a douche, trying to get by with far less money than he should have, being black in America and seeing the government hand off the shield to a far less qualified white guy. There’s a story there, and perhaps one about Bucky making amends and how he feels about what he’s been made to do (whether that needs to be the same series, I’m not sure). But it’s been buried under a pretty standard action plot that I’m less interested in. Hopefully the back half will bring it around, but so far these don’t even feel like three episodes from the same series tonally.

40 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I just don’t enjoy their chemistry, it’s forced and it doesn’t work.

It was funny hearing Bucky remind us all what Sam did for him; he put his whole life and reputation on the line to defend Bucky, and then went on the lamb for however many years as a result, then went to prison. But somehow this “they don’t see eye to eye” thing they’re trying to push overrides that? OK, Sam was just following Cap, but still, Bucky owes Sam a LOT.

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1 hour ago, RumHam said:

Like go listen to him talk about his children staying with his grandparents outside the city and thinking they'd be safe in Civil War.

Yeah he definitely came off as a blue-collar/lower-class soldier in Civil War.  That being said, I'm fine with the "retcon" - Zemo was easily the best part of that episode.

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Yeah that episode was really dumb- and both Sam and Bucky had to be _total morons_ throughout- but it was fun. Zemo was great. Sharon being the power broker was so strongly hinted at that her not being would be a disappointment, but it would also be a weird, out-of-nowhere character move. Mind you her killing all the bounty hunters while they're down with the doctor is also a bit odd.


Karli being a terrorist was unsubtle as shit, fuck that.


And yeah the Madripoor scenes were conceived and written by someone who really liked John Wick.

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I feel that bringing Zemo back by any means necessary to allow him to be part of other stories down the line may have been one of the things this series is supposed to accomplish. It seems that with the general chaos following Infinity War this could have been accomplished without our heroes having to spring him from jail. It's especially weird writing considering another story beat the series is pretty clearly headed for is to have Sam take up the shield because the government-appointed replacement for Steve Rogers isn't qualified for the job for moral reasons.

Maybe the fact that it's much less self-contained than WandaVision was is a bit of a detriment to the show. It's not terrible, but it's easy to see that it could be much better.

24 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

And yeah the Madripoor scenes were conceived and written by someone who really liked John Wick.

The writer of the episode liked the John Wick movies so much he actually wrote three of them.

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3 minutes ago, Jon AS said:

The writer of the episode liked the John Wick movies so much he actually wrote three of them.



That explains a lot

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