Do You see Tyrion Lannister as an overall good or bad character?

[Jaenara Belarys]

I know what the Unkiss is. 

3 minutes ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

There is a strong sense of duality with Tyrion. Half man Half something else. One black eye one green. Maybe a good side and a bad or two souls in one body.

I've never actually thought about it this way, but my interpretation has always been since he's the size of half a man, that's why they call him the Halfman.

[Hugorfonics]

6 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

So, which one is it? What's the problem? The fact that she lied about him plotting to kill Joff, despite Cersei threatening with torture, murder, prison and whatever if she didn't and promising jewels if she did? or the fact that she mocked him in public, which, as a reason for murder is a pretty lame one and makes Tyrion into an even worse person. "She mocked me in public, so I murdered her."

Of course it can be both, but even then, neither comes near to a decent motive for murder, even less for the murder of a person you claim to love.

Yea id say both, combined really. Again tho I say the motive for her killing was her potential interference with Tyrions one on one talk with Tywin. (If it wasnt Shae but random hooker I dont see her living either) The listed above is how she betrayed him.

At the end of the day Tyrion is a game of thrones player, so there is a strong sense of them all being horrible, sure.

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"I remember once some little lord in the stormlands took Ser Arlan into service, to help him fight some other little lord. When I asked the old man what they were fighting over, he said, 'Nothing, lad. It's just some pissing contest.' "

Lady Rohanne gave him a shocked look, but could sustain it no more than half a heartbeat before it turned into a grin. "I have heard a thousand empty courtesies in my time, but you are the first knight who ever said pissing in my presence." Her freckled face went somber. "Those pissing contests are how lords judge one another's strength, and woe to any man who shows his weakness. A woman must needs piss twice as hard, if she hopes to rule.

And if a red spider must piss twice as hard I cant imagine the stream of a little lion. In Tyrions mind, Lannister really, saving face is everything

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Why couldn't you just come joust with us, the way the king wanted? You wouldn't have gotten hurt. What would that have cost m'lord, to climb up on our dog and ride a tilt to please the boy? It was just a bit of fun. They would have laughed at you, that's all."

"They would have laughed at me," said Tyrion.

Obviously pride is not a good trait in asoiaf and it makes all these lords extra crazy, but it also shows the magnitude of Shaes betrayal

6 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

Also, while you might not be excusing him, you are finding reasons to justify the things he's done, to make he's awful deeds look better,

Ehh, idk about justifying. Rationalizing. Which I do do because its interesting to look at all perspectives. (Ramsay especially)

6 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

This I don't think I understand

I love Arya, but when she killed Daeron it rubbed me the wrong way. Just like when her ancestors killed his brothers.

6 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

Agreed, it wasn't a good act, but punishing enemies after a hideous crime (although badly) is not the same as murdering your ex because she betrayed you

Theyre not enemies, theyre subjects. Dany took the city and then crucified 163 nobles, thats so bad lol. 163× worse then Shae. Really more cuz they were fucking crucified!

6 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

This is awful too, yet Bran isn't entirely aware of what he's doing, and he's a kid. If he goes deeper through this path he will be a force for evil, but it's not the same as Tyrion doing something he knows is wrong to someone he supposedly loves.

Brans mad aware. And aware its awful and hes awful. He knows hes eating human which is gross and knows Hodor hates when Bran enters him and knows to keep it a secret from judgy jojen

6 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

I don't know where I got that number from, but I was damn sure about it

Damn sure huh?

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"Then take a good sniff, my lord. Fill up your nose. Half a million people stink more than three hundred, you'll find. Do you smell the gold cloaks? There are near five thousand of them. My father's own sworn swords must account for another twenty thousand. And then there are the roses. Roses smell so sweet, don't they? Especially when there are so many of them. Fifty, sixty, seventy thousand roses, in the city or camped outside it, I can't really say how many are left, but there's more than I care to count, anyway."

 

6 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

though Bronn would't be doing a good job if he did, as the whole point of turning the singer into stew was getting rid of the evidence

Thats a good point

[CamiloRP]

25 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

She technically didn't do that. Read it over again. A dead lady's brothers brought the husband before Queen Rhaenys. He said that it was within his rights to beat his wife (which is wrong, through and through) because he had caught her in bed with another man. He produced the rod he used, but when Rhaenys asked him how many times he hit her he couldn't answer the question. The brothers insisted it was 100 times. Her decision was that since the gods had made women to be subservient ( which is wrong) and loyal to their husbands. She says that the person should only be struck 6 times, not seven since the seventh would be for the Stranger. Therefore the punishment for the husband was 94 blows. 

Aha, that's great, have you find any reason yet why Tyrion murdering Shae is okay and a dude murdering his ex in real life is not?

[Jaenara Belarys]

1 minute ago, CamiloRP said:

Aha, that's great, have you find any reason yet why Tyrion murdering Shae is okay and a dude murdering his ex in real life is not?

SeanF said that Rhaenys passed a law preventing domestic violence and I was trying to correct him. 

[Jaenara Belarys]

9 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Just like when her ancestors killed his brothers.

Are you talking about his NW brothers? 

 

 

 

[CamiloRP]

4 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Yea id say both, combined really. Again tho I say the motive for her killing was her potential interference with Tyrions one on one talk with Tywin. (If it wasnt Shae but random hooker I dont see her living either) The listed above is how she betrayed him.

I disagree, in his thoughts we only see vengeance, never caution.

 

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At the end of the day Tyrion is a game of thrones player, so there is a strong sense of them all being horrible, sure.

And if a red spider must piss twice as hard I cant imagine the stream of a little lion. In Tyrions mind, Lannister really, saving face is everything

Obviously pride is not a good trait in asoiaf and it makes all these lords extra crazy, but it also shows the magnitude of Shaes betrayal

She doesn't view it that way, she doesn't know how bad it is for him, and even still, it's no good reson to murder someone.

Also, I think most prostitutes would love the opportunity to make fun of their clients. Specially a client like Tyrion.

 

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I love Arya, but when she killed Daeron it rubbed me the wrong way. Just like when her ancestors killed his brothers.

Oh, I agree.

 

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Theyre not enemies, theyre subjects. Dany took the city and then crucified 163 nobles, thats so bad lol. 163× worse then Shae. Really more cuz they were fucking crucified!

They were enemies a few seconds ago, and they are culprit of an awful crime. Dany had to punish them, it would've been 'bad' not to. What she did was still terrible, but that's the difference with Tyrion, he didn't have to do anything.

 

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Damn sure huh?

I said i was once you brought up the half mill number I realized I didn't know where I got my number from and googled, you are right, but before you brought up the real number, I was damn sure.

[Jaenara Belarys]

15 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

 

Ignore this right here, I can't delete it

15 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Theyre not enemies, theyre subjects. Dany took the city and then crucified 163 nobles, thats so bad lol. 163× worse then Shae. Really more cuz they were fucking crucified!

 

Those little pieces of **** crucified 163 children, that's why she crucified 163 of them. 

[CamiloRP]

6 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

SeanF said that Rhaenys passed a law preventing domestic violence and I was trying to correct him. 

I know, and I'm waiting for you justification.

[Jaenara Belarys]

TBH, what you are waiting for has nothing to do with the topic. Now, I have to go, but I'll be sure to read the Shae-Tyrion chapter again. Bye.

[SeanF]

9 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

SeanF said that Rhaenys passed a law preventing domestic violence and I was trying to correct him. 

Strictly , I should have said she passed a law *limiting* domestic violence.

15 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Y

Theyre not enemies, theyre subjects. Dany took the city and then crucified 163 nobles, thats so bad lol. 163× worse then Shae. Really more cuz they were fucking crucified!

 

Let's not pretend that the Meereenese elite are somehow innocent of the atrocities committed by elite Meereenese.  

Shae is the lowest of lowest of the low.  A young woman, raped by her father.  She's desperate to survive.  She's quite nasty really, but she's been dealt a shitty hand in life.  Meereenese nobles have won first prize in the lottery of life, yet still choose to be shitheads.

[BlackLightning]

Overall bad

But entertaining and likeable nonetheless

[CamiloRP]

12 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

TBH, what you are waiting for has nothing to do with the topic.

Yes it does, it's what the post is about, is Tyrion good or bad? You are excusing Tyrion's behavior while condemning that same behavior in someone else. I would want to know why?

[Hugorfonics]

34 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Are you talking about his NW brothers? 

Deserter brothers lol

29 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

I disagree, in his thoughts we only see vengeance, never caution.

We never see any thoughts, well a little caution thoughts and some reminiscing about Shae, but not much. Its a very short scene

When he found himself in what had once been his bedchamber, he stood a long moment, breathing the silence. Had his father heard? Would he reach for his sword, raise the hue and cry?

"M'lord?" a woman's voice called.

That might have hurt me once, when I still felt pain. The first step was the hardest. When he reached the bed Tyrion pulled the draperies aside and there she was, turning toward him with a sleepy smile on her lips. It died when she saw him. She pulled the blankets up to her chin, as if that would protect her.

"Were you expecting someone taller, sweetling?"

Big wet tears filled her eyes. "I never meant those things I said, the queen made me. Please. Your father frightens me so." She sat up, letting the blanket slide down to her lap. Beneath it she was naked, but for the chain about her throat. A chain of linked golden hands, each holding the next.

"My lady Shae," Tyrion said softly. "All the time I sat in the black cell waiting to die, I kept remembering how beautiful you were. In silk or roughspun or nothing at all . . . "

"M'lord will be back soon. You should go, or . . . did you come to take me away?"

"Did you ever like it?" He cupped her cheek, remembering all the times he had done this before. All the times he'd slid his hands around her waist, squeezed her small firm breasts, stroked her short dark hair, touched her lips, her cheeks, her ears. All the times he had opened her with a finger to probe her secret sweetness and make her moan. "Did you ever like my touch?"

"More than anything," she said, "my giant of Lannister."

That was the worst thing you could have said, sweetling.

Tyrion slid a hand under his father's chain, and twisted. The links tightened, digging into her neck. "For hands of gold are always cold, but a woman's hands are warm," he said. He gave cold hands another twist as the warm ones beat away his tears.

Afterward he found Lord Tywin's dagger on the bedside table and shoved it through his belt.

29 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

I said i was once you brought up the half mill number I realized I didn't know where I got my number from and googled, you are right, but before you brought up the real number, I was damn sure.

Word, I was just fucking with you.

29 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

They were enemies a few seconds ago, and they are culprit of an awful crime. Dany had to punish them, it would've been 'bad' not to. What she did was still terrible, but that's the difference with Tyrion, he didn't have to do anything.

 

29 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Those little pieces of **** crucified 163 children, that's why she crucified 163 of them. 

 

17 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Let's not pretend that the Meereenese elite are somehow innocent of the atrocities committed by elite Meereenese

 

Woah! Curveball. Look, fuck Ghsicari. What they did to those poor slave children is beyond horrendous, but the fact is those executed were not found guilty in any sense of justice and even if capital punishment can be justified, while Dany is in the middle of curbing the sack and brokering peace, crucifixion one hundred and sixty three can not

 

Eta, i used to know how to spoiler shit, hmm

[SeanF]

12 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Deserter brothers lol

We never see any thoughts, well a little caution thoughts and some reminiscing about Shae, but not much. Its a very short scene

 

  Hide contents

 

When he found himself in what had once been his bedchamber, he stood a long moment, breathing the silence. Had his father heard? Would he reach for his sword, raise the hue and cry?

"M'lord?" a woman's voice called.

That might have hurt me once, when I still felt pain. The first step was the hardest. When he reached the bed Tyrion pulled the draperies aside and there she was, turning toward him with a sleepy smile on her lips. It died when she saw him. She pulled the blankets up to her chin, as if that would protect her.

"Were you expecting someone taller, sweetling?"

Big wet tears filled her eyes. "I never meant those things I said, the queen made me. Please. Your father frightens me so." She sat up, letting the blanket slide down to her lap. Beneath it she was naked, but for the chain about her throat. A chain of linked golden hands, each holding the next.

"My lady Shae," Tyrion said softly. "All the time I sat in the black cell waiting to die, I kept remembering how beautiful you were. In silk or roughspun or nothing at all . . . "

"M'lord will be back soon. You should go, or . . . did you come to take me away?"

"Did you ever like it?" He cupped her cheek, remembering all the times he had done this before. All the times he'd slid his hands around her waist, squeezed her small firm breasts, stroked her short dark hair, touched her lips, her cheeks, her ears. All the times he had opened her with a finger to probe her secret sweetness and make her moan. "Did you ever like my touch?"

"More than anything," she said, "my giant of Lannister."

That was the worst thing you could have said, sweetling.

Tyrion slid a hand under his father's chain, and twisted. The links tightened, digging into her neck. "For hands of gold are always cold, but a woman's hands are warm," he said. He gave cold hands another twist as the warm ones beat away his tears.

Afterward he found Lord Tywin's dagger on the bedside table and shoved it through his belt.

 

Word, I was just fucking with you.

 

 

 

Woah! Curveball. Look, fuck Ghsicari. What they did to those poor slave children is beyond horrendous, but the fact is those executed were not found guilty in any sense of justice and even if capital punishment can be justified, while Dany is in the middle of curbing the sack and brokering peace, crucifixion one hundred and sixty three can not

 

Eta, i used to know how to spoiler shit, hmm

 

Treating the life of a slave child as equivalent to the life of a Great Master is enlightened, by the standards of this world.  163 children did not nail themselves to posts. 

[Nathan Stark]

1 hour ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

I should have said encounter not moment. It is commonly referred to as Unkiss. 
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/UnKiss 

There is a strong sense of duality with Tyrion. Half man Half something else. One black eye one green. Maybe a good side and a bad or two souls in one body. I’m probably wrong but I like to look deeper.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. This is probably one of those times. It might be forshadowing of something, but if so, it is far too oblique to have anything to do with Tyrion.

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

2 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

The weight of the axe. He's slashing down, so he has gravity on his side. He's not magical, and neither is the Hound

The hound has a weird connection to his horse. Sandor sleeps in the saddle as the horse navigates paths. The horse named Stranger keeps an eye on Arya. Stranger and Hound share the same temperament.

Tyrion had suffered such wedding pies before. The doves liked to shit on him especially, or so he had always suspected.

Tyrion pulled himself back into his chair. All he needed now was for a dove to shit on him and his day would be complete. The wine had soaked through his doublet and smallclothes, and he could feel the wetness against his skin. 

The Hound poured a cup of wine for Arya and another for himself, and drank it down while staring at the hearthfire. "The little bird flew away, did she? Well, bloody good for her. She shit on the Imp's head and flew off."

Stares into fire, and knows Tyrion’s thoughts about being shit on.(Not by pigeons but by doves) 
 

The dog is the easiest thing to worg into. Like an old boot. 
Sandor is called the Lannisters dog.

Sandor may not have magical abilities. His behavior is close to one who may be more than he appears.

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

34 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

, it is far too oblique to have anything to do with Tyrion

To Sansa it is very oblique. Tysha and Lollys closer.

I shall endeavor to search for more evil Tyrion Sansa rape.

If i discovery anything I shall delight in rubbing your nose in it! 
Good day sir!  

Couldnt pass up rubbing nose usage even tho it makes no sense. And the outrageous British last word  

[Nathan Stark]

1 minute ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

To Sansa it is very oblique. Tysha and Lollys closer.

I shall endeavor to search for more evil Tyrion Sansa rape.

If i discovery anything I shall delight in rubbing your nose in it! 
Good day sir!  

Couldnt pass up rubbing nose usage even tho it makes no sense. And the outrageous British last word  

If you put that in Google, prepare to use some bleach in your eyes.

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

9 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

If you put that in Google, prepare to use some bleach in your eyes.

Oh man now I’m curious 

[CamiloRP]

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

We never see any thoughts, well a little caution thoughts and some reminiscing about Shae, but not much. Its a very short scene

He constantly thinks about how much pain he's in. About Tysha and about Shae's betrayal.

 

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

When he found himself in what had once been his bedchamber, he stood a long moment, breathing the silence. Had his father heard? Would he reach for his sword, raise the hue and cry?

"M'lord?" a woman's voice called.

That might have hurt me once, when I still felt pain. The first step was the hardest. When he reached the bed Tyrion pulled the draperies aside and there she was, turning toward him with a sleepy smile on her lips. It died when she saw him. She pulled the blankets up to her chin, as if that would protect her.

Also, if he was concerned she would screm, he wouldn't have done this. She could've easily screamed.

 

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"Were you expecting someone taller, sweetling?"

You can't say he's not thinking about 'My giant of Lannister' here.

Shae even get's what he's thinking about, as she says:

 

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Big wet tears filled her eyes. "I never meant those things I said, the queen made me. Please. Your father frightens me so." She sat up, letting the blanket slide down to her lap. Beneath it she was naked, but for the chain about her throat. A chain of linked golden hands, each holding the next.

"My lady Shae," Tyrion said softly. "All the time I sat in the black cell waiting to die, I kept remembering how beautiful you were. In silk or roughspun or nothing at all . . . "

"M'lord will be back soon. You should go, or . . . did you come to take me away?"

And, as noted earlier, he had the chance to send her with Varys.

 

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"Did you ever like it?" He cupped her cheek, remembering all the times he had done this before. All the times he'd slid his hands around her waist, squeezed her small firm breasts, stroked her short dark hair, touched her lips, her cheeks, her ears. All the times he had opened her with a finger to probe her secret sweetness and make her moan. "Did you ever like my touch?"

Again, he's thinking of the betrayal. He doubt's their past (as he should) because of all that's happened.

 

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"More than anything," she said, "my giant of Lannister."

That was the worst thing you could have said, sweetling.

Tyrion slid a hand under his father's chain, and twisted. The links tightened, digging into her neck. "For hands of gold are always cold, but a woman's hands are warm," he said. He gave cold hands another twist as the warm ones beat away his tears.

Afterward he found Lord Tywin's dagger on the bedside table and shoved it through his belt.

And this is the giant fucking piece of evidence. He kills her because she called him 'my giant of Lannister." 

Revenge.

 

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Woah! Curveball. Look, fuck Ghsicari. What they did to those poor slave children is beyond horrendous, but the fact is those executed were not found guilty in any sense of justice and even if capital punishment can be justified, while Dany is in the middle of curbing the sack and brokering peace, crucifixion one hundred and sixty three can not

What she did wasn't right, I said so over and over, but it's not the same kind of ba as what Tyrion did.