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Do You see Tyrion Lannister as an overall good or bad character?


Walter White
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This topic kinda inspires me to copy paste a similar topic I made on a different board. 

I may actually make the topic so I won't post the question here. 

For my two cents, Tywin is good in the big picture. In the little pictures, Tywin is an arrogant pride obsessed sociopath. 

He honestly reminds me of Michael Corleone. A good man trying to do the right thing that ends up doing terrible things to protect his family. That comparison largely holds up well but even Michael Corleone wouldn't have had such an irrational hatred towards his own son. Michael also had a rebellious child and let him go his own way once the kid had the balls to demand it.  Tywin...not so much. He will not let anyone deviate from the plans he has for them. And largely because his plans are the right ones. But the personalities involved complicate the shit out of obvious alliances.

You can almost justify everything Tywin does, brutal as it is, but there is absolutely no justification for him blaming Tyrion for his wife's death nor what he did to Tysha. 

Tywin is a brilliant man but he must have some very closely held belief in vengeance as that was how he started his whole life. 

I also don't think he gave the order to rape and murder Elia Martell. To make a long story short, I think he was recklessly indifferent towards her and didn't care if she died but he never gave a direct order to do what happened. That's Gregor and Lorch going wild and exceeding instruction. 

Just speculating, yall.

Edited by Khal Eazy
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3 hours ago, Khal Eazy said:

This topic kinda inspires me to copy paste a similar topic I made on a different board. 

I may actually make the topic so I won't post the question here. 

For my two cents, Tywin is good in the big picture. In the little pictures, Tywin is an arrogant pride obsessed sociopath. 

He honestly reminds me of Michael Corleone. A good man trying to do the right thing that ends up doing terrible things to protect his family. That comparison largely holds up well but even Michael Corleone wouldn't have had such an irrational hatred towards his own son. Michael also had a rebellious child and let him go his own way once the kid had the balls to demand it.  Tywin...not so much. He will not let anyone deviate from the plans he has for them. And largely because his plans are the right ones. But the personalities involved complicate the shit out of obvious alliances.

You can almost justify everything Tywin does, brutal as it is, but there is absolutely no justification for him blaming Tyrion for his wife's death nor what he did to Tysha. 

Tywin is a brilliant man but he must have some very closely held belief in vengeance as that was how he started his whole life. 

I also don't think he gave the order to rape and murder Elia Martell. To make a long story short, I think he was recklessly indifferent towards her and didn't care if she died but he never gave a direct order to do what happened. That's Gregor and Lorch going wild and exceeding instruction. 

Just speculating, yall.

No, Tywin is not good in the big picture, or the little picture, or any picture. Just look at the Riverlands as your proof. At the end of AGoT, Tywin has Masha Heddle the Inkeep brutally murdered for the crime of being present when Tyrion was captured. Which, you know, isn't a crime.

He told Kevan that he wanted the Riverlands set afire "from the Gods Eye to the Red Fork." In ACoK, we see the very much intended results of that campaign of terror, where Gregor Clegane does warcrimes very much with Tywin's full knowlege and consent.

His whole schtick is to use people like Gregor and Lorch to do his dirty work, and then pretend that he somehow is unaware of their actions even though their actions highly benefit him. Tywin didn't need to give Gregor and Amory any command to rape and murder Elia. He knew what they were like when he sent them. You don't get to rely on people like Clegane and Lorch and then play dumb when they commit atricities.

You can't justify any of what Tywin does. And it doesn't even have the effect of securing his House's interests. Everybody hates the Lannisters. The smallfolk are all radicalized by the war and the Red Wedding. His children are all emotionally damaged adult babies wrecking the realm as they try to murder each other. Tywin's legacy is a feast for crows, and by A Feast for Crows, it really shows.

George doesn't keep associating Tywin with literal shit because he thinks the guy was awesome.

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On 3/23/2021 at 9:54 AM, Walter White said:

I like him a lot but i think that was largely infulenced by Peter Dinklage. I do find it amusing when people say Silvertounge deserved death because he blackmailed Tyrion but have no problem with Tyrion blackmailing his own cousin.  He has some postives  too like killing Tywin which might be the best thing anyone's done in the series.

What Tyrion does going forward will influence my opinion of him.  I will have a positive opinion of him as long as he continues to work against the Lannisters and serves the interest of Daenerys.

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6 hours ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

What Tyrion does going forward will influence my opinion of him.  I will have a positive opinion of him as long as he continues to work against the Lannisters and serves the interest of Daenerys.

You know, I've seen similar posts before, about not only Tyrion, but also Victarion, Jaime, Euron, etc.

I don't get them. I like Dany, I really do, and amongst the candidates for King she's probably the best one, but Tyrion has ruled in the past and he was a good ruler, and I mean good like Aegon V, not like Tywin, the things that make him 'bad' are not ruling decisions or policies, they are rape, murder, torture, if he joins Dany and still rapes and murders and all that, then he would still be a horrible person, the same way Daario is a horrible person. 

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12 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

You know, I've seen similar posts before, about not only Tyrion, but also Victarion, Jaime, Euron, etc.

I don't get them. I like Dany, I really do, and amongst the candidates for King she's probably the best one, but Tyrion has ruled in the past and he was a good ruler, and I mean good like Aegon V, not like Tywin, the things that make him 'bad' are not ruling decisions or policies, they are rape, murder, torture, if he joins Dany and still rapes and murders and all that, then he would still be a horrible person, the same way Daario is a horrible person. 

He's done a good job at suborning Brown Ben and his lieutenants.  For all his faults as a man, I imagine he will be ideal at carrying out grim retribution on the Meereenese masters.  Any successful revolution needs its calculating sceptics, as well as its idealists.

Edited by SeanF
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49 minutes ago, SeanF said:

He's done a good job at suborning Brown Ben and his lieutenants.  For all his faults as a man, I imagine he will be ideal at carrying out grim retribution on the Meereenese masters.  Any successful revolution needs its calculating sceptics, as well as its idealists.

I don't disagree, but I don't think that him helping Dany automatically makes him a good person.

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On 3/23/2021 at 9:54 AM, Walter White said:

I like him a lot but i think that was largely infulenced by Peter Dinklage. I do find it amusing when people say Silvertounge deserved death because he blackmailed Tyrion but have no problem with Tyrion blackmailing his own cousin.  He has some postives  too like killing Tywin which might be the best thing anyone's done in the series.

Tyrion could end up at the wall. His crimes will be forgiven.  It doesn't change what he did except in the eyes of the law.  He is morally dark.  I don't agree with killing Shae and Tywin. Tywin was a cruel man who had it coming, but not from a son who was living like a drunk playboy on his father's money.  Poor Shae got caught in the Lannisters family drama.  She didn't deserve to die like that. 

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27 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Tywin was a cruel man who had it coming, but not from a son who was living like a drunk playboy on his father's money.

I'd like to disagree, Tywin ordered two children killed, sacked KL, destroyed two noble and old houses...... I think he deserved what he got.

3 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

I like Dany, I really do, and amongst the candidates for King she's probably the best one, but Tyrion has ruled in the past and he was a good ruler, and I mean good like Aegon V, not like Tywin

I like Dany too but she needs a guy like Tyrion that's savvy politically. If she has Tyrion as her Hand or something, then she's good. But Dany alone, she does stuff like laugh at Quentyn for his nickname, or marry to cement your hold on a city you won't even be staying in forever.........probably more stuff.

Edited by Jaenara Belarys
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1 hour ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Punishing those Ghiscari turds for nailing up children is BAD?

No. What's bad is torture. What's bad is punishing people at random. What's bad is having no trial.

She could've killed all the masters and I would think that was better than what she actually did. In fact, letting them keep their power and wealth is also bad in my opinion. But torture is never okay, and killing people at random is neither.

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1 hour ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

I like Dany too but she needs a guy like Tyrion that's savvy politically. If she has Tyrion as her Hand or something, then she's good. But Dany alone, she does stuff like laugh at Quentyn for his nickname, or marry to cement your hold on a city you won't even be staying in forever.........probably more stuff.

I didn't ask why you thought she needs him, I asked why do people think that Tyrion, or other characters, would be redeemed by working with Dany if they keep doing the 'bad' things they do. Tyrion is 'bad', helping Dany while continuing to rape and murder won't change that.

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18 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

And this is the giant fucking piece of evidence. He kills her because she called him 'my giant of Lannister." 

Revenge.

I disagree, he had two options taking her with him or silencing her, "giant of a lannister" reinforced why taking her is a bad idea

18 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

What she did wasn't right, I said so over and over, but it's not the same kind of ba as what Tyrion did.

Yea I think its like a million times worse.

 

We're going in circles here so ima try to switch directions. Tyrion at the start of adwd is convinced that he is a monster and his go to response is fuck the world. However when Illyrio pressed Tyrion on crowing Myrcella he immediately felt shame on throwing his neice into the game. When Penny is lost in obscurity failing to assassinate Tyrion he looks after her and her stupid pets instead of sailing away while she dies homeless. Aegons about to die and Tyrion sacrifices his life so the boy may live, Jorah his enemy is even saved by Tyrion. 

Tyrion has done awful things, however the good that he has done outshines the few blemishes of his mentally insane life. Like Dany

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27 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

I didn't ask why you thought she needs him, I asked why do people think that Tyrion, or other characters, would be redeemed by working with Dany if they keep doing the 'bad' things they do. Tyrion is 'bad', helping Dany while continuing to rape and murder won't change that.

I think his advice in Slavers Bay will be hard-headed and realistic, and worth following (quite unlike the show).  I think the risk for Dany is that he'll be egging her on to wreak revenge on his enemies in Westeros.

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1 hour ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

He hasn't done any of that in Slaver's Bay.

That's not the point. He's done those things and him supporting Dany has no connection to that, so it doesn't redeem him. 

Let's say you are a republican, and you heard all the disgusting things Turmp did before being president, you think those things are awful, but him being a republican wouldn't change that.

 

Jaime is trying to redeem himself, his two biggest 'crimes' were oathbreaking and trying to murder Bran, he's redeeming himself by keeping his oaths and trying to save Bran's sister.

Tyrion's crimes were rape and murder, so his redemption should be connected to those, not just serving the correct monarch. 
 

Also, there's no point arguing with you, you keep missing the point of hat other people tell you, purposely or not, defending awful things and even purposely ignoring points you can't argue against with bs excuses.

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1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

I disagree, he had two options taking her with him or silencing her, "giant of a lannister" reinforced why taking her is a bad idea

Yea I think its like a million times worse.

 

We're going in circles here so ima try to switch directions. Tyrion at the start of adwd is convinced that he is a monster and his go to response is fuck the world. However when Illyrio pressed Tyrion on crowing Myrcella he immediately felt shame on throwing his neice into the game. When Penny is lost in obscurity failing to assassinate Tyrion he looks after her and her stupid pets instead of sailing away while she dies homeless. Aegons about to die and Tyrion sacrifices his life so the boy may live, Jorah his enemy is even saved by Tyrion. 

Tyrion has done awful things, however the good that he has done outshines the few blemishes of his mentally insane life. Like Dany

I know he's done some good, I don't think it outshines the bad tho, murder and rape aren't that easily excused, IMHO, so let's agree to disagree.

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49 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I think his advice in Slavers Bay will be hard-headed and realistic, and worth following (quite unlike the show).  I think the risk for Dany is that he'll be egging her on to wreak revenge on his enemies in Westeros.

I don't disagree, he would be a good council member to have, but I don't see how that redeems his past crimes.

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