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Do You see Tyrion Lannister as an overall good or bad character?


Walter White
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8 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Um, hes crying when he killed her.

"With Shae, it’s a much more deliberate and in some ways a crueler thing. It’s not the action of a second, because he’s strangling her slowly and she’s fighting, trying to get free. He could let go at any time. But his anger and his sense of betrayal is so strong that he doesn’t stop until it’s done and that’s probably the blackest deed that he’s ever done." - GRRM

Funny how he doesn't mention poor Tyrions widdle tears 

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On 3/23/2021 at 9:54 AM, Walter White said:

I like him a lot but i think that was largely infulenced by Peter Dinklage. I do find it amusing when people say Silvertounge deserved death because he blackmailed Tyrion but have no problem with Tyrion blackmailing his own cousin.  He has some postives  too like killing Tywin which might be the best thing anyone's done in the series.

Killing Tywin hurt the realm.  Tyrion gave in to his feelings when he loosed that arrow on a defenseless man.  Killing is killing.  I get that.  However, we have to look at the consequences beyond the moment.  Westeros is fighting with its banker because Tywin died and his successors are incompetents.  Tyrion's murder started as a domestic violence between family and spilled into kingdom wide suffering.  Cersei and Cat's love for their children caused greater harm.  Jon's devotion to family led to the murder of Slynt and spilled into what will become the death of the Night's Watch.  They are indeed in very dark places.  Their hearts are dark and their actions will lead to the suffering and death for many.  There is hope and redemption in this story.  Cat, Jon, and Tyrion can find redemption in the future.  Tyrion should serve Dany and help her take Westeros back.  He can never repay his moral debt for the killing of Tywin but he can serve a cause larger and greater than himself by helping Dany.  I think that will be his redemption.  

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1 hour ago, 300 H&H Magnum said:

I say Arya is darker than Tyrion.  Both of them have their darker sides but nothing Tyrion has done will compare to the murders of Dareon, Insurance man, and Raff.  Tyrion is rather bad overall but not as bad as Arya.

Arya is much younger than Tyrion, and very much the victim of people far more powerful than she is. Raff is a vile man who had it coming.  Tyrion's darker deeds are far more callous than Arya's, and coming from someone in a position of greater power.

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Ah good ol, whataboutism, it'll never change.

One thing is trying to give context for Tyrion's actions and other is pretending that Tyrion's actions are not that bad because Ned killed deserters and Dany killed slavers.

The latter is straight up apologism. And yes by book 5, Tyrion is not a really great person to be around.

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54 minutes ago, frenin said:

Ah good ol, whataboutism, it'll never change.

One thing is trying to give context for Tyrion's actions and other is pretending that Tyrion's actions are not that bad because Ned killed deserters and Dany killed slavers.

The latter is straight up apologism. And yes by book 5, Tyrion is not a really great person to be around.

I think the first time I started to question Tyrion is when he reacted to the sight of Masha Heddle's corpse, on the gibbet,  with a quip.  Her only crime was to be present when Catelyn arrested him, and his father hanged her for it.  Most people would surely think "Well, that wasn't fair", even if they couldn't go against what their father had ordered.

This is a dark world, but still not a world in which there are no standards at all.

Edited by SeanF
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9 hours ago, SeanF said:

I think the first time I started to question Tyrion is when he reacted to the sight of Masha Heddle's corpse, on the gibbet,  with a quip.  Her only crime was to be present when Catelyn arrested him, and his father hanged her for it.  Most people would surely think "Well, that wasn't fair", even if they couldn't go against what their father had ordered.

This is a dark world, but still not a world in which there are no standards at all.

My first real moment of disgust with Tyrion was when he was hearing a complaint about Gregor Clegane by a minor noble. "Your dog raped my daughter!"

Tyrion: "I believe they call that war."

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51 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

My first real moment of disgust with Tyrion was when he was hearing a complaint about Gregor Clegane by a minor noble. "Your dog raped my daughter!"

Tyrion: "I believe they call that war."

Tyrion knows what his father and uncle are inflcting on the Smallfolk, and he is eager to serve them at the highest level.  He is not an ordinary footsoldier, but working at the highest level to keep an illegitimate regime in power.  And, yes, he is more sympathetic than many members of that regime.  He does stand up to Joffrey when he abuses Sansa;  he does send Janos Slynt to the Wall;  he does try here and there to mitigate the atrocities carried out by his family.  That makes him better than most of them, but it does not make him good.  He's a kind of Albert Speer figure. 

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On 3/26/2021 at 2:49 PM, SeanF said:

He's a kind of Albert Speer figure. 

And who in the hell is Albert Speer?

On 3/26/2021 at 1:53 PM, Nathan Stark said:

My first real moment of disgust with Tyrion was when he was hearing a complaint about Gregor Clegane by a minor noble. "Your dog raped my daughter!"

Tyrion: "I believe they call that war."

Good point....except it was the guy's wife if I'm thinking about the right person.

 

Edited by Jaenara Belarys
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On 3/25/2021 at 11:45 PM, 300 H&H Magnum said:

I say Arya is darker than Tyrion.  Both of them have their darker sides but nothing Tyrion has done will compare to the murders of Dareon, Insurance man, and Raff.  Tyrion is rather bad overall but not as bad as Arya.

Tyrion may not kill people so directly, but he did have that on guy being sent to the wall drowned, and that silver tongue singer did end up as singers stew. Arya kills people like her father taught her (kinda). For the most part she swings the blade. Dareon was a deserter and A game of Thrones starts with a deserter being executed. Raff and Insurance man both died poetically, and Arya thought them both evil.

The same case can be made for justifying Tyrion's kills, but at least Arya did it herself, which is moral for a northerner.

Also I feel like the time she spends as a wolf more or less warps her perception of people to be like prey. as a wolf she kills lots of prey, and its not murder, its just a wolf doing wolf stuff. Death probably seems more natural to her than for most people cuz that's just what wild animals do.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 3/29/2021 at 3:30 PM, Targaryeninkingslanding said:

Tyrion may not kill people so directly, but he did have that on guy being sent to the wall drowned, and that silver tongue singer did end up as singers stew

That guy that was being sent to the Wall killed a woman and her baby, I think Allar Deem can go screw Janos Slynt in hell.

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On 3/25/2021 at 10:48 PM, Rondo said:

Killing Tywin hurt the realm.  Tyrion gave in to his feelings when he loosed that arrow on a defenseless man.  Killing is killing.  I get that.  However, we have to look at the consequences beyond the moment.  Westeros is fighting with its banker because Tywin died and his successors are incompetents.  Tyrion's murder started as a domestic violence between family and spilled into kingdom wide suffering.  Cersei and Cat's love for their children caused greater harm.  Jon's devotion to family led to the murder of Slynt and spilled into what will become the death of the Night's Watch.  They are indeed in very dark places.  Their hearts are dark and their actions will lead to the suffering and death for many.  There is hope and redemption in this story.  Cat, Jon, and Tyrion can find redemption in the future.  Tyrion should serve Dany and help her take Westeros back.  He can never repay his moral debt for the killing of Tywin but he can serve a cause larger and greater than himself by helping Dany.  I think that will be his redemption.  

Killing Tywin hurt the Lannisters, don’t get it twisted, Westeros is better off with that monster dead. 
 

Tyrion killing Tywin is the best thing he ever did and one of the best things that could happen in the books. Tyrion needs no redemption he needs to be honored and rewarded for doing the damn thing. He should have killed Tywin when he had his wife brutally gang raped.  

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Tyrion's definitely a darker character, he's supposed to mirror Tywin who is a villain much more than Jaime and Cersei after all.  Having said that, he still remains sympathetic to me.  He goes out of his way to protect people like Sansa and Penny who can't protect themselves.  His killing of Tywin is 1000% justified and correct for Tywin's monstrous treatment of him.

However, he is definitely capable of crossing some serious lines and he does so multiple times, including killing Shae and his treatment of that poor slave girl at Illyrio's place.  Even though in my head I can kind of 'defend' him because I can see how he just snapped from all the terrible things that happened to him due to Tywin and Cersei in particular, I can't quite go that far especially in ADWD when Tyrion is really just a much darker character.  While I feel sympathy and think he'd be a good person if Tywin and Cersei actually gave him a chance to be one, he's still definitely on the darker side of grey IMO.  

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3 hours ago, The Wolves said:

Killing Tywin hurt the Lannisters, don’t get it twisted, Westeros is better off with that monster dead. 
 

Tyrion killing Tywin is the best thing he ever did and one of the best things that could happen in the books. Tyrion needs no redemption he needs to be honored and rewarded for doing the damn thing. He should have killed Tywin when he had his wife brutally gang raped.  

Tyrion was justified in killing tywin? yes, for sure.

Under westerosi law should he be punished? without a doubt. In westeros you don t kill your kin...

2 hours ago, Tagganaro said:

Tyrion's definitely a darker character, he's supposed to mirror Tywin who is a villain much more than Jaime and Cersei after all.  Having said that, he still remains sympathetic to me.  He goes out of his way to protect people like Sansa and Penny who can't protect themselves.  His killing of Tywin is 1000% justified and correct for Tywin's monstrous treatment of him.

However, he is definitely capable of crossing some serious lines and he does so multiple times, including killing Shae and his treatment of that poor slave girl at Illyrio's place.  Even though in my head I can kind of 'defend' him because I can see how he just snapped from all the terrible things that happened to him due to Tywin and Cersei in particular, I can't quite go that far especially in ADWD when Tyrion is really just a much darker character.  While I feel sympathy and think he'd be a good person if Tywin and Cersei actually gave him a chance to be one, he's still definitely on the darker side of grey IMO.  

I would say tyrion is more of a neutral character. He doesn t go out of his way to do anything good or bad. However if it is something he really wants I don t think there is a line he isn t willing to cross. I also think he is a bit of an hipocrite. Like he knows a lot of the reasons why his father doesn t like him and never tries to change. Or how he knows his father doesn t want him to inherit CR but is ever obecessing over it not because he thinks he would be a good high lord but because he thinks it is his inheritance.

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If Tyrion was a girl you know most of this forum would be screaming yes by now. Tyrion is just the average guy who has everything in life but has some flaws that society rejects. Can society be cruel to him sometimes? Yes. Does he get the worst from society? NO. Tyrion wants to believe he’s an underdog, but he’s no victim at all, it’s the people who he befriends/love who get hurt. I don’t think he’s “evil” but he’s definitely not as kind or “good” as he likes to believe he is.

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