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Lady_Qohor

Why didn't Cersei kill Robert sooner?

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2 hours ago, Aebram said:

Yes, but why?  We know Lysa wasn't fond of her husband, but murdering him is a pretty extreme solution, and out of character for a timid, weak-willed person.  Surely it's not a coincidence that Jon was killed just when he wss about to reveal Cersei's dark secret.

I think that has more to do with Littlefinger's motives than Cersei. He was actively trying to get the Starks involved in KL politics, or else why have Lysa send that secret letter to Cat? Jon spilling all the beans about Cersei would have threatened all that, so he needed to die.

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2 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

I was actually kind of happy that LF tossed her out the Moon Door, because she's so annoying. And she spoils her brat of a son.

Oh, great, more valid reasons for murder

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48 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Lysa tried to kill Sansa. Is that a vaild reason?

More valid than the last, for sure, since the last one was disgusting, but still no, Sansa was safe.

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5 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Excuse me? Sansa being driven towards the edge is SAFE!?

When LF killed Lysa, Sansa was no longer over the edge, she was safe.

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1 hour ago, Nathan Stark said:

I think that has more to do with Littlefinger's motives than Cersei. He was actively trying to get the Starks involved in KL politics, or else why have Lysa send that secret letter to Cat? Jon spilling all the beans about Cersei would have threatened all that, so he needed to die.

When Jon Arryn was killed, Ned and Robert hadn't even seen each other in nine years, since Balon Greyjoy's rebellion.  I don't think LF could know that Robert would choose Ned as his next Hand.  Lysa's secret letter to Cat didn't arrive unril many weeks after Arryn was dead.

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30 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Lysa would've probably killed Sansa if LF let her.

Lysa threw herself into Littlefinger's arms, sobbing. As they hugged, Sansa crawled from the Moon Door on hands and knees and wrapped her arms around the nearest pillar. She could feel her heart pounding. There was snow in her hair and her right shoe was missing. It must have fallen. She shuddered, and hugged the pillar tighter.

Littlefinger let Lysa sob against his chest for a moment, then put his hands on her arms and kissed her lightly. "My sweet silly jealous wife," he said, chuckling. "I've only loved one woman, I promise you."

Lysa Arryn smiled tremulously. "Only one? Oh, Petyr, do you swear it? Only one?"

"Only Cat." He gave her a short, sharp shove.

Lysa stumbled backward, her feet slipping on the wet marble. And then she was gone. She never screamed. For the longest time there was no sound but the wind.
 

Sansa was safe, she was no longer in harm's way. The murder of Lysa was an evil act. I'm starting to think you would excuse the murder of any woman and then shield yourself saying it's only in fiction, but never explain why.
Berra's mother? It's okay, since she slept with Robert knowing he was married, also she attacked a defenseless goldcloak with her deadly hands while he was just peacefully trying to do his job. 

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13 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Barra is completely different than Sansa and Lysa.

It's great you can tell, still, what LF did was murder, and, weird I have to clarify this, murder is not OK.

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1 hour ago, Aebram said:

When Jon Arryn was killed, Ned and Robert hadn't even seen each other in nine years, since Balon Greyjoy's rebellion.  I don't think LF could know that Robert would choose Ned as his next Hand.  Lysa's secret letter to Cat didn't arrive unril many weeks after Arryn was dead.

LF couldn't know for sure that Robert would choose Ned as Hand. But he does know that Robert and Ned are old friends, so he can guess accurately enough that Ned is top of the list of replacements. 

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Posted (edited)

Lysa killed Jon Arryn at LF's insistence and, more importantly, because Robin was going to be taken away from her to foster at Dragonstone with Stannis. 

Lysa is pretty stupid and weak willed but there is nothing more dangerous in nature than a mother defending her children. 

LF's timing is opportune and swift as always. He doesn't so much as create opportunities for himself as he waits for them to happen and then he steers the events as much as he can. "Chaos is a ladder." (I know thats only from the show but that line was from when GRRM was still heavily involved with the show and very much in line with book LF.)

Edited by Khal Eazy
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1 hour ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

When did I say that murder is OK? Tyrion's a different thing entirely.

how?

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3 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

LF couldn't know for sure that Robert would choose Ned as Hand. But he does know that Robert and Ned are old friends, so he can guess accurately enough that Ned is top of the list of replacements. 

Can he? That seems like a risky venture: to arrange the murder of the King's Hand because he thinks that Robert will choose as his new Hand an old friend that he hasn't seen in almost a decade.

And why would LF want Stark to come to King's Landing? Earlier you wrote that LF "was actively trying to get the Starks involved in KL politics." Why?  What does it gain him?

It occurs to me that, although we know definitively who killed Arryn, we really have no idea why.  My own theory that Cersei was behind it is based on "follow the money," i.e. seeing who benefitted from his death, plus the timing: if Cersei didn't arrange it, it certainly was a stroke of rare good luck for her.

Just to play devil's advocate, I can think of a few other people who benefitted from Arryn's death.  There's Jaime, of course.  And maybe Tywin, if he knew the secret truth about his kids and grandkids. 

Some readers think Lysa wanted her husband dead to prevent him from sending Sweetrobin to be fostered by another House.  But I don't think Lysa would commit a murder, unless she was manipulated into it by someone else, probably LF.  So that brings us back to the question of why LF would want Arryn dead.

And then there's Varys.  Master spy that he is, he probably knew what Jaime and Cersei were up to, and that Arryn had figured it out.  And later in the story, we saw Varys kill two good men in order to keep Cersei in power, by preventing wiser men from correcting her misrule. Could LF be in on the pro-Targaryen conspiracy?

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