New World Order 2030-50

[Free Northman Reborn]

The West blundered strategically with its anti-Russia stance. Russia is no threat to the West, and this approach has forced Russia into alliances with Turkey and China.

China is the real enemy, who should be opposed, undermined and weakened at all costs. The West seems too weak-willed to do that though, as shown by the inaction over the Hong Kong issue.

Time to wake up before it is too late.

[Kalbear]

16 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

The West blundered strategically with its anti-Russia stance. Russia is no threat to the West, and this approach has forced Russia into alliances with Turkey and China.

China is the real enemy, who should be opposed, undermined and weakened at all costs. The West seems too weak-willed to do that though, as shown by the inaction over the Hong Kong issue.

Time to wake up before it is too late.

Yeah, that country which is actively attempting to destroy democracies is definitely not that big a deal

[Free Northman Reborn]

39 minutes ago, Karlbear said:

Yeah, that country which is actively attempting to destroy democracies is definitely not that big a deal

Correct, it’s not a big deal. China is the big deal. Massive deal. With clear plans to be the one deal to rule them all.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

21 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Correct, it’s not a big deal. China is the big deal. Massive deal. With clear plans to be the one deal to rule them all.

I don't think you actually understand the motives of the Communist Party of China at all. That isn't to say that China hasn't been behaving poorly in several spheres, but they are not the threat you think, and it could be possible based on the events of the last Administration that they may actually see the value in resetting terms in a way both nations could accept, within reason. 

@Winterfell is Burning, I'm having some internet issues. I tried to respond a few times to your post, but on my end it was glitching a bit. I'll address the points you raised tomorrow since I'm exhausted right now and just don't have the energy to do so long form at the moment.

[karaddin]

I do think the west blundered with respect to an antagonistic relationship with Russia, but that blunder was back in the 90s and failing to ensure it transitioned into a prosperous enough nation to avoid falling into the lap of an authoritarian due to terrible economic conditions. The current relationship with Russia is an entirely different story, after it has indeed fallen into the lap of the authoritarian that has been in charge for 2 decades

[Arakan]

3 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Correct, it’s not a big deal. China is the big deal. Massive deal. With clear plans to be the one deal to rule them all.

You are correct but many people simply don’t want to hear it. I am German and everytime some US president tries to fearmonger about Russian danger I have to laugh. No one in Germany fears Russia. Truth be told they are quite the reliable business Partner and that’s about it. 

Their foreign policy is driven to secure a security zone around them, and that’s it. Like it, hate it, good, bad. Doesn’t matter. At least understand it after the experience of WW1, civil war, WW2. I really don’t understand the lack of emphaty or common sense especially of American politicians after the 911 experience. 

Russia is not the Soviet Union and at this stage it’s just a convenient bogey man. It would be much more constructive to work together with them and find solutions. Georgia, Ukraine, Armenia, Belarus are basically failed states as is. They don’t belong within the EU nor NATO. No one with a sane mind wants them in EU. The only ones truly pushing for Ukrainian EU membership back then were the UK and US (and they were also the major supporters for Turkish EU membership, I see an ulterior pattern).

And Crimea? Give me a break. Was Russian until Kruchev „presented“ it to the Ukrainian SSR, has Russian population majority. So let it be Russian. Who cares. 
 

Sometimes in life you have to accept facts. Straßburg, Breslau, Danzig, Königsberg, Prag once were pearls of Germany or German culture. They once were German for 700 to 1000 years. They were built by Germans. It’s gone. Time to move on. 

[rotting sea cow]

6 hours ago, Karlbear said:

Yeah, that country which is actively attempting to destroy democracies is definitely not that big a deal

C'mom. You americans shouldn't speak about "destroying democracies" or external interference until you get a hold on your government interference in other countries. I'm from S. America and we know that very well.

[DireWolfSpirit]

7 hours ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

Also, if Maduro feels his position is really at risk, I wouldn't put him past start a war with someone (likely Guiana, the weakest neighbor and with whom there were some past border issues)  as a distraction and a way to keep the military under him.

Guyana is sitting on a major lucrative oil reserves discovery in its territorial waters. 

I worry what hostile threats they could face from other nations that may envy those resources. This seems to be the endless pattern we see when small nations hit the lottery, a bunch of new "friends" in sheep's clothing.

[DireWolfSpirit]

6 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said:

C'mom. You americans shouldn't speak about "destroying democracies" or external interference until you get a hold on your government interference in other countries. I'm from S. America and we know that very well.

I wish I could give you100 of those pink trophies.

The U.S. should stfu about whining over another country interfering in their elections.

We"'ve been guilty of the practice all around the globe for decades.

[Winterfell is Burning]

4 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Guyana is sitting on a major lucrative oil reserves discovery in its territorial waters. 

I worry what hostile threats they could face from other nations that may envy those resources. This seems to be the endless pattern we see when small nations hit the lottery, a bunch of new "friends" in sheep's clothing.

Exactly, and could be a last gamble by Maduro in case he's backed into a corner- use some past border issues as an excuse to invade it, take the oil and trying to unite the nation (or at least the army) behind him fighting a country with a population of less than 1 million people.

[Fez]

5 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

C'mom. You americans shouldn't speak about "destroying democracies" or external interference until you get a hold on your government interference in other countries. I'm from S. America and we know that very well.

Just because the US is guilty of something it doesn't mean that other countries can't be equally guilty of it as well. Fuck off with this "America is the original sin of the modern world order" nonsense.

 

Anyway, there's far too many unknowns to make accurate projections about the future; starting from the base point that its impossible to know if the US re-establishes its dominant position, muddles along like it currently is, or implodes entirely. Going outward from there, we have no idea how much demographic change (specifically aging populations, and China's oncoming gender apocalypse) will ravage most other developed countries. Or how institutional distrust and poorly understood technology will lead to countries making incredibly poor decisions. Or whether countries like Nigeria will be able to harness their population explosions into becoming economic powerhouses.

Personally, I see things mostly muddling on as they have been; but maybe that's a lack of imagination on my part.

[JGP]

33 minutes ago, Fez said:

Just because the US is guilty of something it doesn't mean that other countries can't be equally guilty of it as well. Fuck off with this "America is the original sin of the modern world order" nonsense.

So, I can tell someone to fuck off now? Cause like, I got some long discipline for that. :p  Largely agree though, and I'm about as far from a fan of US foreign policy as you can get. 

---

re: China: that country really hasn't had to contend with feminism yet, and I can't imagine any scenario where it can avoid that indefinitely. A marked improvement will eventually ensue. For interested twitterati, Leta Hong Fincher is a great follow on that subject. 

[Conflicting Thought]

1 hour ago, Fez said:

Just because the US is guilty of something it doesn't mean that other countries can't be equally guilty of it as well. Fuck off with this "America is the original sin of the modern world order" nonsense.

 

Its just, "funny" or shocking or i dont know, its SOMETHING, when you (someone who lives in south america), hear americans (people and goverment) complain about another country's interference with democracies around the world, where do you get the fucking spine to do that, AND you say it like its a threat to the  world stability or something, you are just worried that it will not be the US using its power. 

And im sorry if a dont give a fuck if rusia or china are meddling with your country, when the USA is doing that RIGHT NOW  around the globe. 

[polishgenius]

9 hours ago, Arakan said:

I am German and everytime some US president tries to fearmonger about Russian danger I have to laugh. No one in Germany fears Russia.

 

Germany is the only country in the world of course.


I'm Polish and fuck. that. shit. Ask Ukraine if Russia aren't a threat.

[Heartofice]

3 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

 

Germany is the only country in the world of course.


I'm Polish and fuck. that. shit. Ask Ukraine if Russia aren't a threat.

Surely it depends what half of Ukraine you talk to?

[polishgenius]

10 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Surely it depends what half of Ukraine you talk to?

 

I mean not really. Regardless of the strength of an independence/realignment movement annexation is an undemocratic, threatening maneuver by any measure.

It's also not the only place Russia have fucked with though.

[Kalbear]

9 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

C'mom. You americans shouldn't speak about "destroying democracies" or external interference until you get a hold on your government interference in other countries. I'm from S. America and we know that very well.

From a threat to the US, I disagree. The point is not whether or not interference is bad; it's whether the US and the West should consider Russia a threat to their country. And clearly they should given Russia's actual active actions against those countries and their political and power that is being affected, this seems like a big deal to the US. 

[DireWolfSpirit]

Russia's menace should be countered and confronted forcefully if need be, that I don't have a problem with.

I do think the blathering about our elections being interfered with is incredible hypocritical though and don't have any patience for that sentiment. When your doing  something on one hand and get the exact treatment back no one should pity you.

The menace I would like to see Putin confronted for is some of the direct military cat and mouse bullshit where they have directly endandered our troops with reckless fly-by's or dangerous ship maneuvers. That shouldn't be tolerated any longer.

Additionally Putin poses a threat through cyber crime. It is obvious they are trying to cause us harm through the web. Biden has said he is going to more proactively counter that. I think that is long overdue.

[Poobah]

Quote

What do you think the world will look like in 10 to 20 years? 

I think I'd better learn to use a gun sooner rather than later because the right's coming for me.

[Kalbear]

8 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Russia's menace should be countered and confronted forcefully if need be, that I don't have a problem with.

I do think the blathering about our elections being interfered with is incredible hypocritical though and don't have any patience for that sentiment. When your doing  something on one hand and get the exact treatment back no one should pity you.

I didn't say that anyone should pity us. But I also don't understand why the US wouldn't or shouldn't see Russia as a fairly large threat, which was @Free Northman Reborn's argument. Essentially as long as they're white people they appear to not be threatening.