Covid-19 #29: Gazing Into the Abyss, Again

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

8 hours ago, Arakan said:

Typical so typical. You don’t understand nothing. The EU could have declared an export ban and that’s it. No vaccine produced on EU territory allowed to leave. They could but they didn’t. Leave it. You are a hardcore Brexiteer and rational discussion with you is useless.  

I agree, but one grammatical suggestion. The bolded makes a great line in movies for kids or old Westerns, but I'd suggest "anything" instead of "nothing." Imagine my surprise hearing " Yo quiero Taco Bell"  growing up only to learn that's a great way to get your food spat on in a Spanish speaking country. And besides, "Me gustaria por favor" sounds so much prettier anyways.

Sorry for the slow response. I've got a few to get back to.

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The last sentence. I actually agree. But balance is needed. I understand when Biden‘s approach would have been: we will first vaccinate our vulnerable. Then we will help our friends and their vulnerables. But what the US and Biden have been doing the last 30 days at least is vaccinating every dog and cat. Meaning people way outside any risk group. As mentioned my girlfriend‘s cousin, a perfectly healthy 35 year old woman from Harrisburg, PA. 

Balance is the key word. Especially if you as a country claim for yourself to be the leader of the free world. As Biden did. And I see no leading right now. Ten thousands of people have been dying unnecessarily due to this complete selfish approach. Surplus deaths, not zero sum deaths. 

Balance is key, we agree. But there's a difference between internal and external balance. Biden has to deal with that. And political realities change. The U.S. was arguably the worst hit country, which was our own doing, and the situation was far worse than the incoming Administration realized because that orange piece of shit literally had no concrete plan. Our country is tearing apart. I live in the very city that George Floyd lived in. The nation is at a tipping point and Biden promised restoration first and foremost at home. The vaccine is what can best help to achieve that. So yes, even though the template you laid out, if all things were equal, is correct, but shit happens man. So let me ask you this, would you commit political suicide to share the vaccine knowing the people who would take over would never do the same? It's a hard reality. I very much hope our government, once it's possible, pays for as many global vaccinations as possible, free of charge. But you still have to maintain a government that's willing to do that, otherwise the other side, which has no interest in such a task, will take over. And then what?

Also, our time as leader of the free world is over. We're still the hegemonic power in the West, but that too soon may fade. As I've said before, there are more reasons to be pessimistic than optimistic, but the latter does shine brighter if you want to fight for it.

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And ask yourself: how does it look when you don’t even help your neighbor (Canada) who instead gets support from 5,000 miles away (Europe)? People tend to remember such things for quite a long time if they are themselves affected. Not much leading of the free world, is it?

I passed on my first chance at a shot so others more in need could get in line. When I canvassed fellow non-medical employees who were also at low risk at the hospital I work at, no one else did (I work on the business side, but am in a medical facility). You can try to do the right thing, but don't expect others to do the same. So the next time I got an email saying there were more vaccines I signed up the second after I finished reading it. I want everyone to get vaccinated, regardless of nation, wealth or what have you, but it is human nature to protect yourself first, especially when that's what everyone else is doing.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

12 hours ago, Proudfeet said:

Its not about what should or shouldn't be. Its the rank hypocrisy that sets me off. I'm not really arguing for anything, its just a snide remark off the cuff.

Oddly I don't even think I got a notification for this post. But if rank hypocrisy is your complaint, I have a fun game for you. Find a policy Republicans support that also doesn't contradict another policy Republicans support. You'll be at it for a while. 

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

TRIPLE POST!!!!

1 hour ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

I’m glad the CDC finally saw reason, because no one was going to listen to them if all they could say is “stay home even  if you are fully vaccinated”. That kind of messaging makes it easy to tune them out. 

I hope it's based on science and not fear that the public will just ignore it. That basically undoes everything. But you're not wrong that people will increasingly tune them out, especially as more jabs go into people's arms.

Speaking of which, @Fragile Bird, . Now stop being such a crank 

[Fragile Bird]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

TRIPLE POST!!!!

I hope it's based on science and not fear that the public will just ignore it. That basically undoes everything. But you're not wrong that people will increasingly tune them out, especially as more jabs go into people's arms.

Speaking of which, @Fragile Bird, . Now stop being such a crank 

Still immoral. You keep saying how badly the US was hit, worst country, it’s true, and my response still is add up 332 M people in countries in Europe and they had it just as bad, and the EU has still allowed 77+M vaccine doses out of the country. And I’ll repeat, I understand the politics in the US. I’d rather have Biden than Trump.

We all know the US is never, ever going to use those AZ doses in storage, let them go. If the US doesn’t want the EU back up on it’s feet to compete with the US, ship them to Latin America. Ship them to Japan. Ship them to India, for crying out loud, they could use 30 M doses. Ship them to every country in the Caribbean, Americans frantically want to go on a cruise again.

The 1.5 M we received are, I think, 2/3 expiring at the end of May, 1/3 at the end of June. That means they were manufactured in November and December. I’m sure they’ve already been replaced. They have a 6-month shelf life.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

You know nothing @Tywin et al..

1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said:

A story popped up on my phone that Australia is dealing with a rare blood clot that occurred after someone got the AZ vaccine.

Australia’s only done 750,000 vaccinations.

Sounds like the same issue that got AZ moved into the 60+ age group here.

Also, did you get the good stuff (Pfizer)?

[DireWolfSpirit]

Michigan suffering a ugly resurgence despite the vaccination effort. The Daily New Cases chart is a horrific looking upper case U !

Spread of coronavirus in Michigan may foreshadow what's to come elsewhere, expert says

https://www.cnn.com/webview/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-04-03-21/h_55053d334a2ad15e71ed5372722d1ae6

[Week]

1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said:

We all know the US is never, ever going to use those AZ doses in storage, let them go. If the US doesn’t want the EU back up on it’s feet to compete with the US, ship them to Latin America. Ship them to Japan. Ship them to India, for crying out loud, they could use 30 M doses. Ship them to every country in the Caribbean, Americans frantically want to go on a cruise again.

Yo @Tywin et al., What's the hold up? Let them go, you immoral monster. 

eta - We. All. Agree. More vaccines should have already been exported, more will be exported as supply increases and demand decreases.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

30 minutes ago, Week said:

Yo @Tywin et al., What's the hold up? Let them go, you immoral monster. 

eta - We. All. Agree. More vaccines should have already been exported, more will be exported as supply increases and demand decreases.

I'll still always view you as history's greatest monster, fucking masshole!

*whispers* I heard Week's related to Killary, and he's never gotten over when as a kid his pet beagle ate his favorite Beanie Baby.

1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said:

Still immoral. You keep saying how badly the US was hit, worst country, it’s true, and my response still is add up 332 M people in countries in Europe and they had it just as bad, and the EU has still allowed 77+M vaccine doses out of the country. And I’ll repeat, I understand the politics in the US. I’d rather have Biden than Trump.

You zealot! But in all seriousness, what do you expect? 

Birdie, Murika isn't the EU. We're not even remotely egalitarian. @Proudfeet was correct to point out how our notion of freedom is a euphemism for selfishness. I wish it wasn't so, but it is and you have to navigate within that reality, as you understand. Look, I wish we could be more generous in the short term. I really do. But it's not realistic for now. i hope that changes soon. 

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We all know the US is never, ever going to use those AZ doses in storage, let them go. If the US doesn’t want the EU back up on it’s feet to compete with the US, ship them to Latin America. Ship them to Japan. Ship them to India, for crying out loud, they could use 30 M doses. Ship them to every country in the Caribbean, Americans frantically want to go on a cruise again.

The 1.5 M we received are, I think, 2/3 expiring at the end of May, 1/3 at the end of June. That means they were manufactured in November and December. I’m sure they’ve already been replaced. They have a 6-month shelf life.

Again, optics. Idk what will happen with them, but I can understand why the government would want to hold on to them. Just look at how the right talked about us giving Iran their money back. It was like Obama robbed farmers and gave the cash to them. We're a stupid people, FB. Governing is hard when you're in a two party state and one side literally doesn't believe the sky is blue. So you have to handle things more delicately. 

Is that immoral? Idk. Often times I worry what's behind the next door could be far worse. 

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Michigan suffering a ugly resurgence despite the vaccination effort. The Daily New Cases chart is a horrific looking upper case U !

Spread of coronavirus in Michigan may foreshadow what's to come elsewhere, expert says

https://www.cnn.com/webview/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-04-03-21/h_55053d334a2ad15e71ed5372722d1ae6

I've been watching this with great concern.

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I remain rather distressed that people are slagging Biden relentlessly over these AZ doses.  He wasn't inaugurated in November or December.  We were still having an election for weeks and weeks. In the meantime the US actually did suffer a real attack on the government to stop him from being sworn in as President, which he is still dealing with.

In the meantime even members of the EU halted AZ vaccinations due to various issues not limited to the blood clotting.  Imagine if these doses went out to Canada and elsewhere and many people were struck down with blood clotting conditions. What you all would be saying about Biden and the US.

IOW, you have chosen to shove Biden into a space of lose-lose, can't win-can't win. I have enormous sympathy, but it's also unfair.

Do you want us here to agitate for impeachment of Biden because he hasn't shipped the AZ to Canada, now that he's been office all of  2 1/2 months, while he works to heal the catastrophe that is covid and vaccination here, while the variants are spreading, thanks in very large part to those in office, and those who are 'just people' like the guy who killed a Capitol police officer yesterday in his drive to -- lordessa know what that insane person thought --  who oppose him, deal with the economic fall-out and the massive troubles around immigration, and and and and without end? 

The thing is, Bird, you not having lived here, under the cray cray of previous' regime, you have no idea what sense of relief we sorts here are feeling with Biden in place. I've actually been happy some days, which even if were going to get vaccinated with previous still place -- which I SURE AS HELL WOULDN'T BE -- I'd still be terrified and unable to even think of a future.

We aren't going to be pleased with quite privileged outsiders slagging our President, not at this time, even when we disagree with him on important matters. Living in regime of outright, evil, active, toxic crazy willing to kill anybody and everybody if he doesn't get what he wants, is something I hope you never go through.  Having done so, I know that one can't imagine it, not really, unless you have.

 

 

 

 

 

[Zorral]

Sorry to double post, but I keep thinking about our sister-brother posters like Bird, and their outrage and distress over the supplies and distribution of vaccines.

Maybe I'm understanding some other situations with other people better now too, than I have before, by which I mean feeling it more, in a way that I haven't previously.

I'm thinking of African Americans, women, the impoverished, all the oppressed classes and their despair leading not as often as one would expect, to out-and-out outrage.  We are always telling those and other groups of less fortunate, who receive far less than anything approaching a fair share of society cultural and material resources, even denied LEGAL standing and resources,

"Yes, we understand, we care, we must do something about this, but we can't right now, not until we win this war, get out of this war, win this election, pay down the national debt, get past this latest national - global crisis, this natural / climate change catastrophe, this health crisis. So in the meantime we really appreciate your substantial help in doing so, but your special need must wait.  We're so sorry." 

I think people like Bird are feeling like those denied groups right now. The US is going to do what it is doing -- or not do what it is not doing.  But there is a huge difference: there are vaccines and they are going to come available -- and already are, for her.  Big big big difference.

 

[A True Kaniggit]

Rounding, what’s the current death toll in my US of A? 
 

1 in 600 give or take. 

[DireWolfSpirit]

I think there's a general perception that everyone in the U.S. is already vaccinated. 

I am not even eligible for my first shot yet. Nor are most of my colleagues.

Eta: The headlines say we will be eligible in the coming weeks, then you have the wait for availability, then a second round and another two weeks wait till the full efficacy is active.

The headlines are the one thing, but in reality millions of us are still very vulnerable and will remain so for months yet.

[Zorral]

37 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Rounding, what’s the current death toll in my US of A? 
 

1 in 600 give or take. 

You're going to be told that isn't pertinent in this discussion because, United States and United States own fault.

Except, of course, that somehow most of the people who died, died due to others' cray cray incompetence, active malevolence, not their own.  Particularly those sickened, long haul and dead of the virus who are doctors, nurses, EMS drivers, medical technicians, bus drivers, grocery workers, and so on and so forth.  And as DireWolfSpirit points out, so many seem to believe everyone in the US is already vaccinated, and we're now working on dogs and cats -- let's not even mention the idea that we want to vaccinate children and pregnant women too. Which is worse? Vaccinating your pet cat or your pregnant wife?

[DireWolfSpirit]

42 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Rounding, what’s the current death toll in my US of A? 
 

1 in 600 give or take. 

Yep pretty close to that or 1 in 605 

[kairparavel]

My mom has her appointments booked - first jab in two weeks, second at the beginning of August. And another source of anxiety lessens. 

She confirms the Ontario registration system is easy breezy. 

[Padraig]

4 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

You keep saying how badly the US was hit, worst country, it’s true, and my response still is add up 332 M people in countries in Europe and they had it just as bad,

To nitpick, while more people have died in the EU, on a per population basis, the fatality rate in the US is still 20% higher, although that gap is declining recently.

Completely unrelated, but this is a ridiculous (sad and funny at the same time) example of European politics trying to deal with vaccines.

[kairparavel]

7 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Hoping to make it to L.A. and San Fran for Thanksgiving.

 

I'm hoping to use our canceled flight credit from last July for a similar trip in late summer. Celebrate my 50th a month or two after the fact. Eat some tacos, catch some Doyers, see some redwoods. Guess we'll see.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

16 minutes ago, kairparavel said:

I'm hoping to use our canceled flight credit from last July for a similar trip in late summer. Celebrate my 50th a month or two after the fact. Eat some tacos, catch some Doyers, see some redwoods. Guess we'll see.

Muir Woods or the real deal? I thought I was going to die driving up to the former a little over two years ago. Around this time last year I was planning to stay in San Fran for a week, but once the NBA went dark (sorry, hate to be that guy, but told ya'll it would happen) I called my cousins and told them the trip was off. They thought I was being an alarmist. I appreciate that they both admitted they were wrong.

Never seen the Doyers play in L.A. My baseball fandom is pretty low these days, but when I travel in the summer I still try to catch a game at a random park. Makes it feel new for whatever reason, and $100 usually can get you an okay ticket if it's not a big game, a dog and a few shitty beers. 

[Starkess]

Well the university has gotten permission in accordance with the state/Chicago guidelines to move any student who is employed (ie receives a W-2) by the university to be considered 1c. So that means I am now eligible! Getting my first shot on Tuesday. Honestly I wasn't too concerned about waiting, as I'm young and healthy and generally in low contact with people and get tested weekly for covid. But I still took my first opportunity and I'm feeling a lot of relief.

Cases are starting to creep back up here (Chicago). We were down as low as 2.7% positivity for the 7-day average just at the beginning of March, and now we're just at 5.0% (which is the target level). Not sure why, but hopefully it's starting to level off now. Something similar happened last summer and it did level off so I don't think we're necessarily going to get a 3rd wave.

[S John]

I got my first shot this morning. They were dealing out Moderna when I signed up last week but when I arrived there today they had that sweet, sweet Pfizer on tap.  

we had scheduled family photos for 3 weeks from now thinking that I was getting Moderna which has a longer waiting period, but now my second dose of Pfizer is the day before and I’m wondering how fucked up I’ll be. My mom got Pfizer and she had a pretty rough next day after shot #2. She said it was the worst she’s felt in years. Granted I am 24 years younger than her so we will see.

Arm is a tiny bit sore but not ‘feel like I got punched’ level. The shot itself was damn near painless. Since we have an infant I had to get both flu and tdap recently and both of those hurt way more going in than the Covid one did. My wife has had all the same shots recently and agreed.