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US Politics- Enemy at the Gaetz

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Tweet from 8 years ago that's been making the twitter rounds again...

Gaetz was a young male Florida state rep in 2013.

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3 minutes ago, Fez said:

Tweet from 8 years ago that's been making the twitter rounds again...

Gaetz was a young male Florida state rep in 2013.

Ugh :stillsick:

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Posted (edited)

Excellent subject title!

By the way I second the recommendation for reading The Field of Blood: Violence in Congress and the Road to Civil War.  If the reader's unfamiliar with this history as part of the long, ever intensification of violence across the country and territories in this era over slavery, it will be an eye-opener. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/24/books/review/field-of-blood-joanne-freeman.html

I know, I know, you all are pretty much tired of how long I've been banging on about these parallels between then and now -- going back even long prior to the election of 2016, but it only becomes more so all the time. What's changed is my certainty about certain things as right or wrong.  I think I understand far more now than I have in the past, with all this violence and the rhetoric that comes from those I know are wrong -- and yet, as with John Brown, he did the same things, and I remain more conflicted than ever about what he did, whether he was right or he was wrong or whether he too was insane as so many in the slaveocracy were insane.  This seems to be the only conclusion I can come to -- is there is a virus of madness that has taken over this country and it is virulently spreading.  Fox news, etc. are both knowingly liars -- does that make them insane? but their lies spread insanity it seems, from listening to the spewings of those who besieged the Capitol, for instance. Additionally then, though they stopped having Gaetz speaking on their platform, they are not reporting the revelations of his behaviors and actions, in association with the present investigation of Greenberg.  Total silence. So the rethug supporters, the cray-crays don't even hear about it.

And then, there is this -- the stuff spreads, it really does, infecting those who should be allies, not enemies.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/04/the-many-lives-of-grandmaster-jay/618408/

I mean, this guy characterizes himself as a time traveler, for pete's sake!

I have at times considered the 1830's - 1860 as an age of vision, which doesn't mean the visions are true or even sane or even productive. Among the best known figures who were subject to visions that were sent by a higher power, were Joseph Smith and Harriet Beecher Stowe, as well as John Brown, and many many many others. This is also the age of the Second Great Awakening.

This too seems rather paralleled today.

Very many in the period prior to the War of the Rebellion did use use the words, "insane," and "insanity" to characterize the words and behavior of so many of the slaveocracy's powerful, not just northerners, such as Henry Adams and his father, but many from outside the country.  They simply could not believe sane people could say and propose and behave as those people did.

 

 

 

Edited by Zorral

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8 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

I don't know how you guys continually outdo yourselves with these titles?

Lmao, brilliant!

“I couldn’t believe there wasn’t a new thread yet”


It’s all in this statement.
 

The best titles appear when people aren’t rushing to create the new thread just because. 

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says something about stupidity and greed...and more, it was all legal...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-trump-campaign-reportedly-cheated-donors-who-thought-they-were-making-a-one-time-contribution-collecting-recurring-donations/ar-BB1fh2xz?ocid=ob-fb-enus-580&fbclid=IwAR18kS5JNmL3k-AVQLESGLmdOtDrdVBgXqxrzHRTvqPGQj6zj2ZcW7MzitQ

 

The Trump 2020 campaign reportedly duped supporters into making recurring donations without their consent.

Donors, including cancer patients, who intended to make a one-time contribution ended up making more.

According to the New York Times, donations were automatically set to repeat when supporters got to the final stages of contributing.

In what seemed to be an effort to bolster political contributions in the heat of the 2020 election against now President Joe Biden, the Trump 2020 campaign reportedly duped supporters into making recurring donations without their explicit or known consent.

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@Fez

Quote

Federal marijuana legalization would be an interesting senate vote. I think there are 60+ votes for it in the senate (including McConnell actually, as a way of expanding Kentucky's growing hemp industry into related fields), but I could see as many 10 Democrats voting against it.

I'm still pretty cynical about getting 60 votes.  It sounds like Schumer's comprehensive bill will include restorative justice - which it absolutely should - but that's a good way for McConnell to unite the caucus in obstruction.  And I definitely think McConnell will want to block any legalization bill.  He legalized hemp in the 2018 farm bill, sure, but he's always been opposed to marijuana legalization - and arguably legalization will introduce competition for the hemp farmers in his state.

It should also be noted that only 4 GOP Senators reside in the 15 states that have legalized weed.  I'm hard pressed to identify 10 GOP Senators that would vote in favor.  Paul, sure, but after that...you'd think those out west would, but Utah and Idaho have the Mormon populations which are avidly opposed to recreational legalization.  Then, on the other side, you got Biden, who is wayyy behind the rest of the party on legalization - and cannabis policy in general.

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47 minutes ago, DMC said:

@Fez

I'm still pretty cynical about getting 60 votes.  It sounds like Schumer's comprehensive bill will include restorative justice - which it absolutely should - but that's a good way for McConnell to unite the caucus in obstruction.  And I definitely think McConnell will want to block any legalization bill.  He legalized hemp in the 2018 farm bill, sure, but he's always been opposed to marijuana legalization - and arguably legalization will introduce competition for the hemp farmers in his state.

It should also be noted that only 4 GOP Senators reside in the 15 states that have legalized weed.  I'm hard pressed to identify 10 GOP Senators that would vote in favor.  Paul, sure, but after that...you'd think those out west would, but Utah and Idaho have the Mormon populations which are avidly opposed to recreational legalization.  Then, on the other side, you got Biden, who is wayyy behind the rest of the party on legalization - and cannabis policy in general.

Okay, yeah, if there's more to the bill than just a straightforward "We're removing Cannabis from Controlled Substances Act Scheduling" than there's no way it's passing a filibuster. Maybe you could throw in some FDA authority to regulate it too, but that's about it.

If it was as simple a bill as that though, I think you get: 

Murkowski, Sullivan, Collins, and Daines (the 4 GOP senators in states with legalization so far)

Rounds and Thune (maybe, depending on how things play out in the court case; South Dakota legalized last election as well, a state judge struck it down, and now there's an appeal)

Lee, Paul, and Sasse (the libertarians)

Portman, Rubio, and Scott- maybes (Ohio and Florida are very likely to legalize in '22 by ballot, I think Rubio will want to get ahead of that; maybe not Scott though; and it's unclear if Portman would care, since he's retiring)

Cassidy (he's been protective of Louisiana's medical marijuana program, to the point of working with Gov. Edwards on it; there's a difference between medical and recreational for sure, but it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch)

Toomey (he was pushing a bill last Congress to let marijuana businesses get full access to banking services; seems like he's okay with legalization)

That gets you to about 10. Maybe you're right about McConnell, but if he did go for it he'd probably bring along the center of the caucus with him.

I could also see Hawley voting for it, it's the kind of freebie populist bait he'd go for.

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20 minutes ago, Fez said:

If it was as simple a bill as that though, I think you get:

I think you're being too optimistic on a lot of those.  First and foremost, Rounds, who quite recently reiterated he's opposed to it:

Quote

Sen. Mike Rounds (R-S.D.), for example, remains decidedly anti-weed although his home state made history by legalizing both medical and recreational marijuana on Election Day.

“I have not changed my position on it. I think this is really bad public policy,” Rounds said. He said he does not plan to work on revising federal marijuana laws, even piecemeal legislation like access to banking for cannabis businesses. “I never say I will never do anything, but most certainly I am not going to be a proponent of any type of actions along that line.”

Thune, as the whip, I don't see any indication he'd go against the majority of the caucus.  Rubio has always been avidly anti-weed, even saying during his 2016 presidential campaign he'd "crack down" on states that have legalized it.  Rick Scott, too, has been more opposed to weed than his own constituents.  Portman, too, has a long track record opposing any cannabis policy.  Hell, Collins maintained opposition to federal legalization as recently as 2018.  Even Sasse and Toomey I think you're making a big assumption they'd be for it.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ThinkerX said:

says something about stupidity and greed...and more, it was all legal.

There is no end to it, no bottom, no limits, no bounds.

Only insane US citizens can keep supporting the guy who kicks even them down.

Even his "Easter message" was a kick in their faces.

Edited by Zorral

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1 hour ago, DMC said:

I think you're being too optimistic on a lot of those.  First and foremost, Rounds, who quite recently reiterated he's opposed to it:

Thune, as the whip, I don't see any indication he'd go against the majority of the caucus.  Rubio has always been avidly anti-weed, even saying during his 2016 presidential campaign he'd "crack down" on states that have legalized it.  Rick Scott, too, has been more opposed to weed than his own constituents.  Portman, too, has a long track record opposing any cannabis policy.  Hell, Collins maintained opposition to federal legalization as recently as 2018.  Even Sasse and Toomey I think you're making a big assumption they'd be for it.

Fair point about Rounds. Thune though, he might be opposed to legalization, but if he's for it, I don't think a majority of the caucus being against it would matter. Just 2 weeks ago he was 1 of 14 Republicans to join Democrats in blocking a Paul attempt to derail the PPP extension. Of course, he did have cover for that one since McConnell was another of the 14, but no one else in Senate GOP leadership joined in. 

As for others, you can find some pretty recent statements from a lot of Democratic senators being against legalization as well. Things have moved very quickly on this front, with support growing across the political spectrum. Republicans have lagged national trends, but as of last fall a majority of them supported legalization as well; per polling. It looks like most Democratic politicians, with the very big exception of Biden himself so far, are finally catching up with where the nation is. It's not a stretch to think some Republican politicians will too, since support is growing among their voters as well.

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1 minute ago, Fez said:

It's not a stretch to think some Republican politicians will too, since support is growing among their voters as well.

I agree in principle, just on the ones mentioned I don't see Portman because, of course, he has no reason to care about his constituents anymore - thus I'd rely on his very consistent track record.  And with Rubio and Rick Scott, they already have lagged behind their own constituents on the issue.  Plus with Scott I see him being in the "no" category just to deny the Dems a victory.  Same with Collins (on lagging behind her constituents, that is).  That's why I emphasized them.

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21 hours ago, ThinkerX said:

I feel so bad for how badly he conned a lot of these people. They saw him as a populist, and he's a corporatist. I mean, this strategy is how companies have been getting extra membership fees out of people for decades--forget to cancel your membership on time. I just don't understand how so many people looked at a "billionaire" and thought he wasn't part of the issue. 

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I think we had a discussion a few months back about establishment GoP and Trumpie GoP and how the former might be inclined to purge elements of the latter. However, the way this is going, all the Trump boosters may just be eliminated on their own because of their sleaziness (I mean, their sleaziness is the main reason they were in the Trump camp to begin with, so the process is somewhat self-selecting).

There are days when I am able to convince myself that Trump is a spent force and 4 years later no one will remember him. If our economy is in relatively good shape in 2024 in no small part due to Biden's policies it may even come true.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

I think we had a discussion a few months back about establishment GoP and Trumpie GoP and how the former might be inclined to purge elements of the latter. However, the way this is going, all the Trump boosters may just be eliminated on their own because of their sleaziness (I mean, their sleaziness is the main reason they were in the Trump camp to begin with, so the process is somewhat self-selecting).

There are days when I am able to convince myself that Trump is a spent force and 4 years later no one will remember him. If our economy is in relatively good shape in 2024 in no small part due to Biden's policies it may even come true.

The hell you talking about? 
 

Both parties are the same! Says the uninformed voter.

:crying::crying::crying:

Edited by A True Kaniggit

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