Do people forget that Daenerys heard Rhaegar say that Aegon is the Prince who was promised?

[Mister Smikes]

19 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Whatever you want, ser. I'm not going to try to argue with someone who will obviously never listen to the opposite opinion. 

Bow out any time you want.  You don't owe me an argument.   Just as I don't owe it to you to agree with you.

[Lord Varys]

42 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Speaking of stupid things, remember when Victarion says that the "best thing would be to sweep in from the sea, smash the slavers, take the girl and race for home". How in the holy hell is he going to "take the girl and race for home"? Is he that stupid?

We have no idea. What we do know, however, is that Vic's goal is not just to leave with a dragon. We have to really consider this. And Moqorro's goal - who seems to help Vic so far - is to prevent that Euron acquires a dragon/becomes a danger to Daenerys.

That makes it very unlikely Vic will leave Slaver's Bay with a dragon if he got one. If he even gets one which I really cannot wrap my head around. That guy won't become a dragonrider. It is ridiculous. But if was then he would likely use that dragon to find Daenerys. His entire beef with Euron is about the wife Euron forced him to kill - and in return he now wants the woman Euron desires. Daenerys. He is not going to give that up.

But, yeah, the idea that Vic could even 'take' Daenerys is also ridiculous. No idea how this could possibly fly even in anyone's imagination. That wouldn't have worked even if Dany was still at Meereen.

[divica]

47 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

We have no idea. What we do know, however, is that Vic's goal is not just to leave with a dragon. We have to really consider this. And Moqorro's goal - who seems to help Vic so far - is to prevent that Euron acquires a dragon/becomes a danger to Daenerys.

That makes it very unlikely Vic will leave Slaver's Bay with a dragon if he got one. If he even gets one which I really cannot wrap my head around. That guy won't become a dragonrider. It is ridiculous. But if was then he would likely use that dragon to find Daenerys. His entire beef with Euron is about the wife Euron forced him to kill - and in return he now wants the woman Euron desires. Daenerys. He is not going to give that up.

But, yeah, the idea that Vic could even 'take' Daenerys is also ridiculous. No idea how this could possibly fly even in anyone's imagination. That wouldn't have worked even if Dany was still at Meereen.

Another thing to consider is that euron has access to visions and sudenly decided to send victarion and his men to get danny while he stays in westeros.

Given there is a vision of IB boats burning I don't think anything good will happen to vic. Which leaves one to question what actually the horn does (euron wouldn t risk it if the horn could actually control a dragon).

[Jaenara Belarys]

51 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

But, yeah, the idea that Vic could even 'take' Daenerys is also ridiculous. No idea how this could possibly fly even in anyone's imagination. That wouldn't have worked even if Dany was still at Meereen.

I know, right? How is he supposed to "take the girl" if she's surrounded by hundreds and thousands of Unsullied, freedmen and Ser Barristan? How in the heck is he even supposed to get out of the Pyramid with Daenerys?

 

53 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

That makes it very unlikely Vic will leave Slaver's Bay with a dragon if he got one. If he even gets one which I really cannot wrap my head around. That guy won't become a dragonrider. It is ridiculous. But if was then he would likely use that dragon to find Daenerys. His entire beef with Euron is about the wife Euron forced him to kill - and in return he now wants the woman Euron desires. Daenerys. He is not going to give that up.

 

Viserion and Rhaegal are too small to be ridden, unless you're a dwarf or a young child. But anyway, I sure do hope that Victarion isn't a dragonrider. I want Tyrion and Jon to be dragonriders.

[Egged]

2 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

I know, right? How is he supposed to "take the girl" if she's surrounded by hundreds and thousands of Unsullied, freedmen and Ser Barristan? How in the heck is he even supposed to get out of the Pyramid with Daenerys?

 

Viserion and Rhaegal are too small to be ridden, unless you're a dwarf or a young child. But anyway, I sure do hope that Victarion isn't a dragonrider. I want Tyrion and Jon to be dragonriders.

Could be the vision is of a dragon eating the other wounded one, allowing George to justify speeding up the growth of the remaining dragon.

[Mister Smikes]

2 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Viserion and Rhaegal are too small to be ridden, unless you're a dwarf or a young child. 

I'm not sure that's still true.  

[Jaenara Belarys]

1 hour ago, Mister Smikes said:

I'm not sure that's still true.  

I was talking about a grown man the size of Victarion.

[Mister Smikes]

12 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

I was talking about a grown man the size of Victarion.

I don't expect Victarion to ride a dragon.  But Viserion can intercept and catch in his jaw a corpse hurled by catapult, and still remain aloft.

[athenia45]

These are some really interesting theories! I had never thought that Daenerys would really looking for two other "dragons" since she already has three real dragons. However, perhaps at some point, after meeting Jon or fAgeon, she realizes she is meant to find two more Targaryens. Maybe she accepts both fAegon and Jon into the fold. And maybe fAegon betrays her, regardless if he is real or not, and that may cause her downfall, not necessarily Jon.

I have a hard time seeing fAegon, as the one with the song of ice and fire, because I have no idea how that connects to fAegon. But I wonder if Rhaegar thought his son was the prince who was promised, and perhaps he thought any next child he would have would be a daughter, not a son. Maybe he really did see Daenerys in that vision and he assumed she was his future daughter, his third child that he needed to have. 

Personally, I see that there are many Princes that were Promised/Azor Azhai. I think Aerys was one, Rhaegar was one. I say this because I see the "sword" as more of a metaphor--Aerys drove his "sword" into his love Rhaella causing her death with the birth of Daenerys, Rhaegar did the same with Jon. Both Jon and Daenerys are Lightbringers in human form, not actually AA himself. 

I also have thought that the prophecy of the return of Drogo, was a bit vague--like if his return is actually Daenerys' child, then absolutely, he's not returning before her womb quickens. That said, I feel like this only works if she means to call the child Drogo or Rhaego, and I have a hard time seeing that happening at this point. 

[Mister Smikes]

15 hours ago, athenia45 said:

These are some really interesting theories! I had never thought that Daenerys would really looking for two other "dragons" since she already has three real dragons. 

She told Quentyn outright that she needs 2 riders for her dragons more than she needs more marriage suitors.

15 hours ago, athenia45 said:

I have a hard time seeing fAegon, as the one with the song of ice and fire, because I have no idea how that connects to fAegon.

I agree.  fAegon is not in the cards.

15 hours ago, athenia45 said:

But I wonder if Rhaegar thought his son was the prince who was promised, and perhaps he thought any next child he would have would be a daughter, not a son. Maybe he really did see Daenerys in that vision and he assumed she was his future daughter, his third child that he needed to have. 

Maybe he was right.  And maybe the House with the Red Door was not in Braavos.

15 hours ago, athenia45 said:

Personally, I see that there are many Princes that were Promised/Azor Azhai. I think Aerys was one, Rhaegar was one.

Too many for me.  But the thought has occurred to me that we may see a demonic promised prince, as well as a more benevolent promised prince.

 

[Carrotecuite]

On 15/04/2021 at 02:52, Rose of Red Lake said:

Tyrion could just tell her his suspicions as well but....

I think he's going to suppress that, to encourage an alliance. He's not going to want them to come to blows.

Aegon and his followers (dorne) will kill tommen and myrcella.
Tyrion will use daenerys to take revenge for the murder of his nephews.
So reveal everything about aegon's imposture and varys/ illyrio's manipulations.

[Makk]

On 4/15/2021 at 12:52 PM, Rose of Red Lake said:

Tyrion could just tell her his suspicions as well but....

I think he's going to suppress that, to encourage an alliance. He's not going to want them to come to blows.

Not convinced about that. Tyrion will quite possibly be looking to earn a place by her side and has already been playing games manipulating fAegon ruthlessly. Here are a series of excerpts from the Cyvasse game the two of them had where he plants the idea to strike Westeros without Daenerys into young griffs mind. This was one of my favorite scenes in all the books.

Quote

“It does make for a splendid story, and the singers will make much of your escape once you take the Iron Throne … assuming that our fair Daenerys takes you for her consort… …She may not prove as willing as you wish.”

“She’ll be willing.” Prince Aegon sounded shocked. It was plain that he had never before considered the possibility that his bride-to-be might refuse him. “You don’t know her.”

…”how do you suppose this queen will react when you turn up with your begging bowl in hand and say, ‘Good morrow to you, Auntie. I am your nephew, Aegon, returned from the dead. I’ve been hiding on a poleboat all my life, but now I’ve washed the blue dye from my hair and I’d like a dragon, please … and oh, did I mention, my claim to the Iron Throne is stronger than your own?’ ”

Aegon’s mouth twisted in fury. “I will not come to my aunt a beggar. I will come to her a kinsman, with an army.”

“A small army.” There, that’s made him good and angry.
 

 

Quote

“She will be my bride, Lord Connington will see to it. I trust him as much as if he were my own blood.”

“Perhaps you should be the fool instead of me. Trust no one, my prince…. All that mistrust will sour your stomach and keep you awake by night, ’tis true, but better that than the long sleep that does not end.”

Quote

The dwarf pushed his black dragon across a range of mountains. “But what do I know? Your false father is a great lord, and I am just some twisted little monkey man. Still, I’d do things differently.”

That got the boy’s attention. “How differently?”

“If I were you? I would go west instead of east.”

 

Quote

The dwarf shrugged. “Do you want to wager your throne upon a woman’s whim? Go to Westeros, though … ah, then you are a rebel, not a beggar. Bold, reckless, a true scion of House Targaryen, walking in the footsteps of Aegon the Conqueror. A dragon. I told you, I know our little queen. Let her hear that her brother Rhaegar’s murdered son is still alive, that this brave boy has raised the dragon standard of her forebears in Westeros once more, that he is fighting a desperate war to avenge his father and reclaim the Iron Throne for House Targaryen, hard-pressed on every side … and she will fly to your side as fast as wind and water can carry her.”

Quote

“And when she reaches Westeros, and meets you for the first time, you will meet as equals, man and woman, not queen and supplicant. How can she help but love you then, I ask you?” Smiling, he seized his dragon, flew it across the board. “I hope Your Grace will pardon me. Your king is trapped. Death in four.”

And then when he has learned that it worked...

Quote

Could this be some ploy of Griff’s, false reports deliberately spread? Unless … Could the pretty princeling have swallowed the bait? Turned them west instead of east, abandoning his hopes of wedding Queen Daenerys? Abandoning the dragons … would Griff allow that? 

Quote

Deliver me to the queen, he says. Aye, but which queen? He isn’t selling me to Cersei. He’s giving me to Daenerys Targaryen. That’s why he hasn’t hacked my head off. We’re going east, and Griff and his prince are going west, the bloody fools.

Oh, it was all too much. Plots within plots, but all roads lead down the dragon’s gullet. A guffaw burst from his lips, and suddenly Tyrion could not stop laughing.

It is very difficult to know exactly what Tyrion actually desires as he is in such a messed up state in Dance that he doesn't really know himself. But at this stage I think it is fairly safe to assume that he doesn't really care for young Griff at all. His main focus is on himself and convincing Daenerys that he is not Aegon would potentially give him a much stronger position at her side. 

[asongofheresy]

I do not believe Aegon will fall for Arianne, nor that Arianne who thinks Lysono, a Valyrian looking man is an exotic creature, will fall for Aegon, there is really nothing that stands between Daenerys and Aegon's union beside fans enmity against Aegon. 

[Moiraine Sedai]

Rhaegar was wrong about a lot of things. 

[EggBlue]

2 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Rhaegar was wrong about a lot of things. 

there are two occasions we are absolutely sure Rhaegar was wrong:

1) he thought he'll win the battle of the Trident and failed but it's reasonable that a man who goes to war thinks he'll win. 

2) he thought he was the promised prince but for all we know when Aemon said Rhaegar shared this belief, Rhaegar was very young and he had good reasons to believe that.

we are not so sure about what Rhaegar exactly believed about the 3 heads of the dragon , the prince who was promised and the battle for the Dawn ... maybe everything he thought turn out to be true at the end.

[Mister Smikes]

1 hour ago, EggBlue said:

there are two occasions we are absolutely sure Rhaegar was wrong:

1) he thought he'll win the battle of the Trident and failed but it's reasonable that a man who goes to war thinks he'll win. 

2) he thought he was the promised prince but for all we know when Aemon said Rhaegar shared this belief, Rhaegar was very young and he had good reasons to believe that.

we are not so sure about what Rhaegar exactly believed about the 3 heads of the dragon , the prince who was promised and the battle for the Dawn ... maybe everything he thought turn out to be true at the end.

It was thought that Rhaegar united the lines of Aerys and Rhaella, fulfilling the woods witch prophesy.  But no.  That's why the Summerhall ritual did not work and ended in tragedy.  

No wonder Ser Bonifer is haunted by some tragedy and secret shame.  Summerhall, which caused the death of Bonifer's dad, Duncan the Tall, and a whole bunch of other people, was all Bonifer's fault.

Meanwhile, the real children of Aerys and Rhaella cannot be TPTWP, because they are too damaged by 2 successive generations of full sibling incest.

Rhaegar thought he was TPTWP, until one day he found out:  Wait, my real dad is Bonifer Hasty!?  That doesn't work.

So Rhaegar sets out to unite the lines of Aerys and Rhaella.  He chooses as his bride Elia Martell, whose mother gave birth to her "prematurely" after rushing home from King's Landing.  Thus Elia's son marries Aerys' daughter, and the result (per the theory) is TPTWP.

(Just a theory, folks.)

[Moiraine Sedai]

6 hours ago, EggBlue said:

there are two occasions we are absolutely sure Rhaegar was wrong:

1) he thought he'll win the battle of the Trident and failed but it's reasonable that a man who goes to war thinks he'll win. 

2) he thought he was the promised prince but for all we know when Aemon said Rhaegar shared this belief, Rhaegar was very young and he had good reasons to believe that.

we are not so sure about what Rhaegar exactly believed about the 3 heads of the dragon , the prince who was promised and the battle for the Dawn ... maybe everything he thought turn out to be true at the end.

Rhaegar’s little sister is the promised one. The person who resurrected the dragons. Rhaegar never dreamed that he would have a baby sister. He thought his children were the heads of the dragon. He was mistaken. Rhaenys is dead. Aegon is also most likely dead. The third, if he even had one, is probably the boy passing off as Aegon. 

[Lord Lannister]

Just because a character says something doesn't mean it's fact. Going to stick with Jon being the Prince that was Promised.

[EggBlue]

7 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

It was thought that Rhaegar united the lines of Aerys and Rhaella, fulfilling the woods witch prophesy.  But no.  That's why the Summerhall ritual did not work and ended in tragedy.  

No wonder Ser Bonifer is haunted by some tragedy and secret shame.  Summerhall, which caused the death of Bonifer's dad, Duncan the Tall, and a whole bunch of other people, was all Bonifer's fault.

Meanwhile, the real children of Aerys and Rhaella cannot be TPTWP, because they are too damaged by 2 successive generations of full sibling incest.

Rhaegar thought he was TPTWP, until one day he found out:  Wait, my real dad is Bonifer Hasty!?  That doesn't work.

So Rhaegar sets out to unite the lines of Aerys and Rhaella.  He chooses as his bride Elia Martell, whose mother gave birth to her "prematurely" after rushing home from King's Landing.  Thus Elia's son marries Aerys' daughter, and the result (per the theory) is TPTWP.

(Just a theory, folks.)

honestly , the books have given us so little about Rhaegar and even the prophecy he was so obsessed with that this can actually turn out to be true, if the books ever come out to give some answers that is!

ps. is Bonifer confirmed to be Duncan's son or is that a part of the theory?

2 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Rhaegar’s little sister is the promised one. The person who resurrected the dragons. Rhaegar never dreamed that he would have a baby sister. He thought his children were the heads of the dragon. He was mistaken. Rhaenys is dead. Aegon is also most likely dead. The third, if he even had one, is probably the boy passing off as Aegon. 

yeah this is very likely.

or Rhaegar had actually realized something about the prophecy that made him thinking about three heads of the dragon ( something other than looking at his sigil and thinking : "how cool would it be that I make three magical kids and raise them to be super heros?")... maybe he thought there should be three people according to some new info he had gained about the prophecy and he thought one of them is his son..

the point is we don't know that. the assumption that Rhaegar wanted his three children to fulfill the prophecy comes from Dany.

In the end maybe the promised prince ( whether it's one person or 2 or 3 ) is his son... maybe YG is really that kid Aegon and turn out to have some role in the prophecy or / and maybe it's Rhagar's other son.

[highway unicorn]

On 4/5/2021 at 6:37 AM, Rose of Red Lake said:

 

Yeah I mean Dany gunning for the Starks is really likely for this reason. Also, she needs to get stuff wrong in her interpretations, like thinking someone is a threat when they're not, and vice versa. Imagine if she figures out all these cryptic warnings and prophecies and while every other character is floundering. It just sounds like the most Mary Sue choice an author could make. Same goes for Aemon and Rhaegar with the House itself. Like only Targaryens guess correctly? What?

Characters being smart or able to figure some stuff out automatically makes them mary sue apparently. It doesn't matter that they are in a closer proximity to the supernatural elements of the world than most characters or that they possess mystical guidance and knowledge of the subject matter.