Watch, Watched, Watching: The Shield lands on top

[Mexal]

20 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I'd argue Scorpion and Subzero got fully fleshed out, and it was their movie. They did enough with everyone else, with some exceptions, to give you enough backstory if you loosely knew the game the movie was based off of. And they did explain that it was a preemptive attack before the tournament. 

Subzero had no characterization other than giving him a first name and sending him after the other champions. We know nothing about him.

The Swordsman was a much better showcase of Joe Taslims talents. We watched it on Thursday before Mortal Kombat and infinitely better.

[Aemon Stark]

We've been rewatching Orphan Black, though previously I've never watched beyond early season three. Just got past that point today, and I'm still really enjoying it. Bingeing really works for it, and they've managed to balance multiple different increasingly complicated plot lines fairly well - and it's still funny! It's also currently the only way I can visit Toronto. 

I also restarted Battlestar Galactica for what will be my first real re-watch. The initial mini-series beginning is so good! I know there are many dips yet to come (c.f. Tigh's wife), but it's just so confident and efficient in storytelling and world-building from the very start. So good. 

[DireWolfSpirit]

Enjoyed Mortal Kombat for the action.

Was disappointed only that my favorite character, had this happen-

Spoiler

Shang Tsung gets fed up with Earthrealm warriors and sucks out Kung Laos soul.

[Veltigar]

I watched two films over the weekend. The first was Judas and the Black Messiah and the second was Prince's 1984 classic Purple Rain. I had mixed feelings about the former. Didn't mind watching it, but if I had gone out to the theater to see this I would probably have been disappointed.

I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to recommend the film to anyone. After all, good enough for streaming isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. I will say that Daniel Kaluuya was a pretty good screen presence, I get he won the Oscar, given how weak the year seems to have been in the supporting actor category. I was however bored by both Meth Damon and Lakeith Stanfield (even though I do love the actor from Atlanta). I just didn't get the framing device of the film really. Given how good Kaluuya was and how little they did with the conflict of Stanfield's character,  I'd rather have seen a straight Fred Hampton biopic with more focus on Kaluuya. Seems to me that that would have been just as effective at bringing the crime across and would have made for a more engaging narrative.

After Judas and the Black Messiah I watched Prince's Purple Rain. It's been 5 years since the Purple One's untimely demise and I wanted to get this one of my list for years. So glad I watched it now in these pandemic times, because I really needed the laugh.

Based on the music, I went in expecting greatness and sure enough, greatness is what I got. Just not what I was expecting. I assumed I was getting an Eighties answer to Pink Floyd's The Wall or any of the rock opera's by The Who, but the closest spiritual companion to this film I can think off is Tommy Wiseau's The Room. It's a horrendously bad film with terrible acting, strange shots, deranged dialogue and a lot of truly epic what the fuck moments like 

Spoiler

Morris Day throwing a woman in a dumpster out of fucking nowhere.

Safe to say I loved it. I laughed so hard throughout the film, it has been ages since I had this much fun with a film.  And that's without even taking the epic music into account. I can definitely see myself watching this again in years to come, not to mention that it also peaked my interest in the rest of Prince's filmography. It's so hard to find these type of guilty pleasure "so-bad-they-are-good-films" every addition to the line-up is a cause for celebration.

EDIT: Some extra musings over Purple Rain

Spoiler

It's quite remarkable for a big Eighties film to feature only lead actors of color. I don't think there is any important "white" character (always strange to use these US terms, latino's look pretty white to me but I guess whiteness is an expanding realm)

Also, I do wonder just how autobiographical this film was. The attitude Prince's character has on display towards women in this film is... well, its... I think I'd have to go back to Sam Peckinpah's films to find a big film that is just as misogynistic as this one. The Eighties is a long time ago, but I can't imagine this playing well even back then.

In the meantime, I'm also slowly plodding through more episodes of Breaking Bad. I'm about halfway through the fourth season and I think it's remarkably improved so far. If it continues like this, it might end up better than season one. The only plot line that gives me pause at the moment is:

Spoiler

Gus somehow investing time and resources in making Jesse feel like a hero. I like Jesse's character, he's deeper than one would have predicted from season one, but I just don't feel it is plausible for Gus to not just waste Jesse at this point (same feeling about Walt btw, but even more so for Jesse).

On the other hand, Hank finding the fast food sign in Gale's flat and realizing that something is odd about vegan and organic obsessed Gale eating fried chicken was quite good detective work. I like that.

 

[Relic]

Season 4 of BB is probably the best season, imho. 

[HexMachina]

9 hours ago, Aemon Stark said:

We've been rewatching Orphan Black, though previously I've never watched beyond early season three. Just got past that point today, and I'm still really enjoying it. Bingeing really works for it, and they've managed to balance multiple different increasingly complicated plot lines fairly well - and it's still funny! It's also currently the only way I can visit Toronto. 

I also restarted Battlestar Galactica for what will be my first real re-watch. The initial mini-series beginning is so good! I know there are many dips yet to come (c.f. Tigh's wife), but it's just so confident and efficient in storytelling and world-building from the very start. So good. 

I think previously you dropped out at the weakest part of Orphan Black (S3). I still enjoyed that season, particularly on a rewatch, but imp it picked up again after that.

I really want to rewatch too now.

Currently watching Shadow and Bone which is fine but not exciting me too much. I'm always ready for a break at the end of each episode rather than wanting to binge through

[Veltigar]

I just watched the episode of Breaking Bad with the infamous "I am the one who knocks speech." This must be one of the most quoted monologues ever and one that I was well aware off going into the show and let me just say that I totally did not see it coming in that particular moment for that particular use.

Given how popular it was and how often I saw people rave about Walter White being such a bad ass I did not expect it to come out from such a position of weakness. That made me realize that I still had a very important question left to ask to everyone here. Am I alone in thinking that Walter White is a big loser?

And I'm not just talking pre-criminal venture here. His entire criminal career so far has been a joke. A deadly one, causing untold harm to many but the man is such a pathetic dweep the entire time. He's never really in control and he gets played even by the lowliest street thugs he comes across. How is he such a popular character?

9 hours ago, Relic said:

Season 4 of BB is probably the best season, imho. 

I concur so far

[dog-days]

15 minutes ago, Veltigar said:

I just watched the episode of Breaking Bad with the infamous "I am the one who knocks speech." This must be one of the most quoted monologues ever and one that I was well aware off going into the show and let me just say that I totally did not see it coming in that particular moment for that particular use.

Given how popular it was and how often I saw people rave about Walter White being such a bad ass I did not expect it to come out from such a position of weakness. That made me realize that I still had a very important question left to ask to everyone here. Am I alone in thinking that Walter White is a big loser?

No - I think the people who view Walter White as some kind of bald James Bond with a beard are getting his character entirely wrong, or just seeing what they want to see. They maybe over-identify with his character at the start, embracing fully the idea of this neglected genius who's never got the credit he deserves, weighed down by his mean pregnant wife and disabled son, and totally absolve him of any responsibility for his own problems. Plus they tend to ignore his ridiculousness. (I haven't seen BB for years, but I remember a pizza-throwing incident?) 

I like Walter btw. Just not in the same way as some of his fans!

[RumHam]

I thought the "I am the guy who knocks" speech was super pathetic but yeah I guess that was probably the point. I didn't realize that at the time. 

Also like, you didn't knock. You made Jessie knock. 

[Mexal]

29 minutes ago, Veltigar said:

I just watched the episode of Breaking Bad with the infamous "I am the one who knocks speech." This must be one of the most quoted monologues ever and one that I was well aware off going into the show and let me just say that I totally did not see it coming in that particular moment for that particular use.

Given how popular it was and how often I saw people rave about Walter White being such a bad ass I did not expect it to come out from such a position of weakness. That made me realize that I still had a very important question left to ask to everyone here. Am I alone in thinking that Walter White is a big loser?

And I'm not just talking pre-criminal venture here. His entire criminal career so far has been a joke. A deadly one, causing untold harm to many but the man is such a pathetic dweep the entire time. He's never really in control and he gets played even by the lowliest street thugs he comes across. How is he such a popular character?

Yes he's a big loser and I think that comes across even more on re-watch. I actively root for him to die every episode. 

[Relic]

33 minutes ago, Veltigar said:

Am I alone in thinking that Walter White is a big loser?

He's extremely unlikable, but sheeple like the person they are told is a protagonist. That said, you probably should save these questions till the end, or you'll be spoiled. 

[Ran]

It's a great speech precisely because the reality of Walt's situation undercuts the message he's delivering, which is rooted in a pretty messed up self-image that he's created and now clings to ferociously, projecting it towards Skylar as if to reassure himself that he is the master of his own fate.

It's really, really good writing, IMO.

[DMC]

Yeah, other than being able to cook the purest meth - and generally applying his chemistry expertise to criminal acts - I've always thought Walter White is pretty thoroughly depicted as pathetic.  It's why poor Bryan Cranston exists in the zeitgeist in his tighty whities.  And him (and really both of them) sucking as criminals is frequently alluded to.  Pretty sure both Jessie and Saul outright say this at some point.

[Zorral]

2 hours ago, Mexal said:

Am I alone in thinking that Walter White is a big loser?

No.  Boring too. Plus not very bright.

~~~~~~~~~

Shadow and Bone.  The best thing it has going for it is its pedal to the metal pacing, which keeps moving us along so we don't think about anything that happens or the characters.  The worst thing it has going then, is its pacing, because a good deal of the just what and how something happens is not bothered with.

Favorite character, outside the baby goat that is, may be Nina, the Heartrender. For one thing, Nina's got a sense of humor and fun.  Rather like Inej too, though she seems almost the blackberry lipstick badass ninja-ing reprise of The Good Wife’s Archie Punjabi’s Kalinda Sharma, just, somewhat, younger. That I like them more than Alina is more than likely due to them being older, possessed of mileage and experience. If the Conductor wasn’t a sex trafficker, I’d probably have liked him too – actor was Porthos in The Musketeers -- workin' for the Revolution!  I No one can dislike the character of Jesper, as the actor, Kit Young has the same energetic trickster charisma as Sarah’s foster brother, Felix Dawkins, played by Jordan Gevaris, on Orphan Black. 

It's annoying how these days the viewing audience is expected to do writers’ work, and know everything about plots, characters and worlds already.  Because, when this show works, the consensus among the recappers who have read the books is where storylines, and publications are melded or changed for the screen.

Also, every time I see or hear ‘volcra’ I think ‘velcro’.  Sorry.  Can’t. Help. That.

Alina Starkness -- Sansa Stark.  The actress in S&B delivers her lines in the same tone and timbre as the actress playing Sansa.  Perhaps they attended the same drama school?

Then the great summing up -- “Saints become martyrs before they become heroes.” That’s ass backwards as we see the process historically.  It’s heroes that become martyrs, who, infrequently, then become saints, like Thomas a Becket,  or maybe get their photos up on the CIA’s secret Hall of Fame wall. instead of being instantly forgotten.

At best, S&B stays on the move, thus nothing too disturbing can be put in front of our eyeballs, at least for very long. At worst, every lauded plot twist and character reveal is exactly what one already knew would happen, or had already happened,

Spoiler

such as Genya never mailing Alina’s letters to Mal, required mean girl to Alina, Zoya

, blahblahblah. IOW, fairly flimsy, derivative stuff, seen and read numberless times, ending with a Big Dark Lord threatening the entire world. O My!  

[Aemon Stark]

1 hour ago, Veltigar said:

And I'm not just talking pre-criminal venture here. His entire criminal career so far has been a joke. A deadly one, causing untold harm to many but the man is such a pathetic dweep the entire time. He's never really in control and he gets played even by the lowliest street thugs he comes across. How is he such a popular character?

I think I did empathize with him - even root for him - in the first season especially, but gradually as more and more lies and situations develop, it becomes more a study in hubris. Walter is set up for us to kinda like or at the very least sympathize with - and when he starts down the meth route, it seems more catharsis than tragedy. The real turning point for me was Jane's death, and it wasn't even the first time he killed someone. But he let her die because she was interfering with his control over Jesse (or what he perceived as his control). Later his treatment of Gale is ridiculous, filtered through his usual unconvincing lying, and his later behaviour with Gus in pretty much on brand for being the idiot that he is (most especially when he approaches him to talk business at the hospital with the entire local DEA around in earshot). 

Anyway, I think BB is one of the most elegantly constructed shows ever, with a rare satisfying ending. But I won't say anymore!

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

The 2009 Land of the Lost was on with a few minutes left as I was channel surfing. Is it okay to laugh at that still? 

[TheLastWolf]

Not a flaw in 1917

@Zorral

 

Tsk Tsk Tsk 

[Veltigar]

12 hours ago, dog-days said:

No - I think the people who view Walter White as some kind of bald James Bond with a beard are getting his character entirely wrong, or just seeing what they want to see. They maybe over-identify with his character at the start, embracing fully the idea of this neglected genius who's never got the credit he deserves, weighed down by his mean pregnant wife and disabled son, and totally absolve him of any responsibility for his own problems. Plus they tend to ignore his ridiculousness. (I haven't seen BB for years, but I remember a pizza-throwing incident?) 

I like Walter btw. Just not in the same way as some of his fans!

That was season 2 if I recall correctly. And yes, they most certainly must be able to ignore his ineptitude and ridiculousness. Just yesterday the episode I watched he bought a 

Spoiler

brand new Mustang for Walt Jr. without any regard for Skyler's reasonable plan to launder his money. The man behaves like the bangers Vick Mackey destroys on the Shield, but those people at least have the excuse of being poorly educated and having grown up in an inter-city hell

I'm glad to see that everyone here seems to support the Walter is a loser reading of the series. In my mind, when this show was super popular, people were hyping up that character like he was just as imposing as say the Hound on GoT. I wonder what it says about the age we live in that a character like that could capture the zeitgeist.

12 hours ago, RumHam said:

I thought the "I am the guy who knocks" speech was super pathetic but yeah I guess that was probably the point. I didn't realize that at the time. 

Also like, you didn't knock. You made Jessie knock. 

True, what a douche XD

Spoiler

And then after that speech he throws a hissy-fit to Jesse about his adventures with Mike because it all "revolves around him"

 

11 hours ago, DMC said:

Yeah, other than being able to cook the purest meth - and generally applying his chemistry expertise to criminal acts - I've always thought Walter White is pretty thoroughly depicted as pathetic.  It's why poor Bryan Cranston exists in the zeitgeist in his tighty whities.  And him (and really both of them) sucking as criminals is frequently alluded to.  Pretty sure both Jessie and Saul outright say this at some point.

I actively miss the bolded part by the way. I thought it was one of the better things about season one. I would not mind him using that skill again although looking how the character has evolved

Spoiler

It's pretty clear that that would be counter-productive for their aim with the character. If the writers want to revel in Walter's patheticness, they can't have him run around like the chemically astute cousin of MacGyver being all innovative and creative 

 

12 hours ago, Mexal said:

Yes he's a big loser and I think that comes across even more on re-watch. I actively root for him to die every episode. 

Oh man, I'm right here with you and this is only my first watch. I can't believe he hasn't been whacked yet. 

12 hours ago, Relic said:

He's extremely unlikable, but sheeple like the person they are told is a protagonist. That said, you probably should save these questions till the end, or you'll be spoiled. 

Trouble is 

Spoiler

I am already a bit spoiled going in. There were individual pieces like the "I am the one who knocks" speech that I knew about in advance, but they reached me in an adulterated form. The speech is a prime example as I remember it being often referenced on e.g. the GoT part of this forum as a sort of good way to demonstrate that a character is a badass.

It's one of the reasons why this show keeps surprising me. For a long time, based on how pieces of the show were filtered back to me before, I thought Walter was just experiencing some teething problem with his criminal venture and that he would eventually transform in a sort of hypercompetent mobster. 

Now though, I have come so far that I know I was mistaken all along. The point of the character is that he will always be a pathetic dweep. No matter what. The only change his character has undergone since the beginning is that he has just found a way to spread his toxicity outwards.

I think I have one milestone left to reach and that is his death at the end of the series. I do remember at the time people referring to his character's demise as being anti-climactic (spoiler etiquette really is dead on the internet) and that's not how a supposedly badass character is supposed to go out, but given how faulty the internet's reading seems to have been, I'm expecting his demise to be stupid and for that stupidity to be character appropriate. 

 

 

12 hours ago, Ran said:

It's a great speech precisely because the reality of Walt's situation undercuts the message he's delivering, which is rooted in a pretty messed up self-image that he's created and now clings to ferociously, projecting it towards Skylar as if to reassure himself that he is the master of his own fate.

It's really, really good writing, IMO.

It is. Although I must admit that I do find it somewhat clinical.  I respect the show intellectually for presenting such an atypical story but I do find it hard that there is no one I can really root for.  

Plus, I do find it strange that 

Spoiler

On the one hand the writers are so good in their character work, but on the other hand so terrible with all the stupid coincidences and generally making this story plausible. Perhaps it is more acute because I'm actively rooting for Walter to get his comeuppance, but I don't understand why he hasn't been murdered yet.

 

11 hours ago, Zorral said:

No.  Boring too. Plus not very bright.

He reminds me of some professors I had. Brilliant in their niche, but unable to fill out their taxes or really function in the real world.

11 hours ago, Aemon Stark said:

I think I did empathize with him - even root for him - in the first season especially, but gradually as more and more lies and situations develop, it becomes more a study in hubris. Walter is set up for us to kinda like or at the very least sympathize with - and when he starts down the meth route, it seems more catharsis than tragedy. The real turning point for me was Jane's death, and it wasn't even the first time he killed someone. But he let her die because she was interfering with his control over Jesse (or what he perceived as his control). Later his treatment of Gale is ridiculous, filtered through his usual unconvincing lying, and his later behaviour with Gus in pretty much on brand for being the idiot that he is (most especially when he approaches him to talk business at the hospital with the entire local DEA around in earshot). 

Anyway, I think BB is one of the most elegantly constructed shows ever, with a rare satisfying ending. But I won't say anymore!

I think for me I was able to give him slack up until the moment he 

Spoiler

went in remission. After that, he should have realized that he was handed a second lease on life and that he should quit while he was ahead. The fact that he doesn't realize that is maddening. 

 

[mormont]

The thing with Breaking Bad (which, full disclosure, I gave up on near the end of season 2) is that it fits a genre that 'quality' TV loved at that time, the 'let's watch this entitled white dude roll around in awful, self-indulgent, self-pitying toxic behaviour and be a horrible human being because the showrunner finds the character fascinating for some reason' genre. Mad Men. Deadwood. Sons of Anarchy (again, full disclosure, I loved that series but hoo boy). The Sopranos. And yeah, Breaking Bad. There are more I can't think of right now, I'm sure. And maybe I'm oversimplifying and being unfair to some of those series but it's a trend I had my fill of fairly quickly.

[DMC]

10 minutes ago, Veltigar said:

I do find it hard that there is no one I can really root for. 

If you're in the second half of season 4 then I was very strongly rooting for Jessie at that point.