Has Varys Created His Own Language?

[Ivan Tsarevich]

6 minutes ago, Jay21 said:

stub that wasn't subsequently edited or corrected like Jaqen and his 'red god'?

I'm not familiar with this, so if I may ask, what is this about? Was Jaqen's red god a mistake?

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

Tongue of flame?

children of the forest who sing and not speak?

[Jay21]

2 minutes ago, TsarGrey said:

I'm not familiar with this, so if I may ask, what is this about? Was Jaqen's red god a mistake?

As a Faceless Man Jaqen's god would be the many faced god not Rh'llor. I think Martin rationalized this once as Jaquen had jut about been burned to death, but I don't really recall now.

[Jay21]

11 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I expect that most of the little birds Varys receives from Illyrio are mute, but perhaps not all in his employ.

Probably the most reasonable explanation if a little depressing.

I wonder what they do with all of those tongues

[Ivan Tsarevich]

9 minutes ago, Jay21 said:

As a Faceless Man Jaqen's god would be the many faced god not Rh'llor. I think Martin rationalized this once as Jaquen had jut about been burned to death, but I don't really recall now.

So there is no source or comment or anything like that outside the books where it's said to be a mistake?

Edit: Ah, noticed Martin. So there is something, apparently.

[CamiloRP]

5 hours ago, Jay21 said:

I'm not 100% convinced that the LB's are all tongueless but I have some thoughts on them all the same and will proceed as though it is fact that he has all of their tongues removed. (it may be, I dunno)

I've spent a few years managing a warehouse floor.  Give me the power to cut tongues out! I don't think Varys does it to keep the kids from talking to the wrong people or to keep his secrets, I think he does it because people - especially young ones- are easily bored and distracted. Varys' mutes are isolated and I think that this isolation predisposes them to doing Varys' work. They don't get into conversations or games with the other urchins and don't get to bond with them or get caught up in their own schemes and plans. This isolation also leaves them dependent upon Varys as finding alternate sources of food or shelter would be that much harder without the ability to express the need or to bond with the people who may be predisposed to helping them. Literacy or some sort of short hand would be a must, but as it seems these kids come from across the narrow sea it may be an eastern language.

In light of his own mutilations at a young age and the effect it's had on him his whole life, it's a little dismaying Varys he sees mutilating children as an option, let alone his first best option. I am hoping that we get some clarification about this at some future point.

 

I like this possibility, is similar to what @Lord Varys said before, that would make the actual Varys into an incredibly brutal character, I mean, mutilating children just so they pay attention? jeesh.

 

 

[CamiloRP]

1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

And I don't think anyone says Wex doesn't have a tongue

Nope, they don't, but no one ever says he has his tongue either, I'm not sure of him being a LB, but he's the character with the highest likelihood of being one. And it's not such a telling look if you keep your mouth shut and people know you are a mute.

[Jay21]

29 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

I like this possibility, is similar to what @Lord Varys said before, that would make the actual Varys into an incredibly brutal character, I mean, mutilating children just so they pay attention? jeesh.

I think he is an incredibly brutal character. his speech to Kev while he's lying on the floor bleeding out is the height of narcissism. Keven doesn't care about AegonVI anymore, he probably just wants a glass of water. I get that that speech was more for us than the regent, but come on. Finish him off already, you sadist. He's in no position to judge your confession.

[TheLastWolf]

18 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

A written language.

Hieroglyphics? GRRM has made up so much new, runes and all, but no Egyptian dancers yet 

[John Suburbs]

18 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

Nope, they don't, but no one ever says he has his tongue either, I'm not sure of him being a LB, but he's the character with the highest likelihood of being one. And it's not such a telling look if you keep your mouth shut and people know you are a mute.

Eh, I supposed Wex' backstory could be a lie. But I would wonder how one of Varys LB's wound up on Pyke working for one of Lord Botley's half-brothers. 

But a tongueless mouth is kind of distinctive. The cheeks tend to be drawn in, the chin droopy. There's a look to it, especially when it's done with hot pincers and a knife.

[Targaryeninkingslanding]

If Wex is a bird does that mean varys will know about bran and rickon? What will that mean? I don't feel like he has any reason to hurt them if he wants a stable realm so...

[Lord Varys]

Varys isn't sadistic. He doesn't mutilate the children himself, they come to him tongueless - and while that's an ugly mutilation, especially when done to children, there is no indication that anyone enjoys this kind of thing. And they think it is necessary for the whole little bird system which, in turn, allows Varys to do what he does.

22 hours ago, Jay21 said:

I think he is an incredibly brutal character. his speech to Kev while he's lying on the floor bleeding out is the height of narcissism. Keven doesn't care about AegonVI anymore, he probably just wants a glass of water. I get that that speech was more for us than the regent, but come on. Finish him off already, you sadist. He's in no position to judge your confession.

I don't think this impression is intentional there. The entire speech is more for the readership than dying Kevan - we are supposed to understand what the Aegon plan means to Varys - but the idea also is that Varys respects Kevan enough to explain to him why he has to die - something he most likely didn't do for Pycelle.

Varys obviously can be ruthless, but he isn't cruel and he doesn't really prolong Kevan's suffering. The bolt wounded him mortally already, and the little birds are finishing the job.

 

[Son of Man]

Coded sign language would do.  

[Aebram]

On 4/8/2021 at 8:26 PM, Egged said:

George said he doesn't cut their tongues, the kids are provided to him as such. I wouldn't put much thought into it.

Sorry, this made my jaw drop, so I want to confirm: GRRM has actually stated that the Little Birds have had their tongues cut out?  Do we know where and when he said this?

[Jaenara Belarys]

1. If the little birds don't have their tongues, I must say, I feel real bad for them. 

2. So far, the only evidence I've seen that the LBs don't have tongues is when Varys or Illyrio says "if they kept their tongues". 

3. If the little birds don't have tongues, do they write out their reports? We've seen that Lord Varys has scripts of discussions (i.e, Tyrion's trial), and Tyrion says that he stays up at night "scrutinizing reports from whisperers."

 

 

[Egged]

2 hours ago, Aebram said:

Sorry, this made my jaw drop, so I want to confirm: GRRM has actually stated that the Little Birds have had their tongues cut out?  Do we know where and when he said this?

https://towerofthehand.com/blog/2013/05/27-conquest-44-report-grrm/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TowerOfTheHand+(Tower+of+the+Hand)

I know I literally saw the video where that quote was from, I remember it was poorly filmed and he said that Varys didn't cut them himself but that they were provided to him as such so yeah, confirmed by George. This was in may 2013.

You should consider the fact that the little birds have no tongues a meaningful point about Varys himself, as he had his dick cut off when he was a kid, or so he claims.

Quote

"Yet I still dream of that night, my lord. Not of the sorcerer, nor his blade, nor even the way my manhood shriveled as it burned. I dream of the voice. The voice from the flames. Was it a god, a demon, some conjurer's trick? I could not tell you, and I know all the tricks. All I can say for a certainty is that he called it, and it answered, and since that day I have hated magic and all those who practice it. If Lord Stannis is one such, I mean to see him dead."

Also recently I remember someone asked about Varys and the voice in the flame, and strangely George went out of his way to talk about viewpoints and that Varys SAYS a voice spoke back, and that this story gets retold. Very strange, and it seems to indicate to me that Varys' story is a lie. Why would Varys, saying he heard the voice speak back, lead to George correcting the guy and say "Varys SAYS".

Edit: Here