James Steller Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 On 12/28/2021 at 8:56 AM, TheNecromancerofMirkwood said: You do realize that there is no conflict between being afflicted by a Curse and your own stupidity/pride causing you to f'up your life and cause the Curse to come true, right? Frodo CLEARLY Cursed Gollum to leap into the Crack of Doom when he attacked him on the slopes of Orodruin. That Curse was fulfilled because of Gollum's avarice for The One Ring outweighed his good sense to not attack someone who could kill him. The same is true of The Army of the Dead. Isildur, acting literally as Eru's agent upon Middle-Earth at that moment, Cursed them if they refused to fulfill their oaths. Morgoth's Curse upon Húrin's family came true because of the actions of Túrin, which just fulfilled the Curse's objectives. Again, Turin was literally hypnotised by Glaurung at Nargothrond into doing what needed to be done for the curse to work. The fact that Morgoth's creatures got directly involved and took away his free will, even for a single moment, shows me that the curse was actively being carried out by a malicious god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted November 1, 2022 Author Share Posted November 1, 2022 21 hours ago, James Steller said: Again, Turin was literally hypnotised by Glaurung at Nargothrond into doing what needed to be done for the curse to work. The fact that Morgoth's creatures got directly involved and took away his free will, even for a single moment, shows me that the curse was actively being carried out by a malicious god. Turin would be a mix; true Glaurung hypnotized him, but it was Turin's choice to remain in exile even after being pardoned, as well as his mother's to stay in Dor-Lomin and being unwilling to humble herself as a guest in another's home that also helped to doom him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 On 12/28/2021 at 1:56 PM, TheNecromancerofMirkwood said: You do realize that there is no conflict between being afflicted by a Curse and your own stupidity/pride causing you to f'up your life and cause the Curse to come true, right? Frodo CLEARLY Cursed Gollum to leap into the Crack of Doom when he attacked him on the slopes of Orodruin. That Curse was fulfilled because of Gollum's avarice for The One Ring outweighed his good sense to not attack someone who could kill him. The same is true of The Army of the Dead. Isildur, acting literally as Eru's agent upon Middle-Earth at that moment, Cursed them if they refused to fulfill their oaths. Morgoth's Curse upon Húrin's family came true because of the actions of Túrin, which just fulfilled the Curse's objectives. The implication is that Turin and his family were doomed, whatever they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted November 3, 2022 Share Posted November 3, 2022 On 4/9/2021 at 11:00 AM, SeanF said: Tolkien's views were old-fashioned for their time, but it's evident that he respected women in positions of leadership. He was a medievalist and no doubt based his women leaders on Queens and noblewomen in the middle ages. A woman had to rely more on soft power than a man would have, but she couldn't be a pushover, either. People like Kettricken and Ronica Vestrit in Robin Hobb's stories seem quite similar to Tolkien's women, IMHO. D & D's attitudes towards women are those of the average 12 year old boy. I like that Tolkien's female characters had a soft side to them, too. You can be powerful and still be gentle and kind (of course men can be these things, too). But Benioff and Weiss seemed hell bent on making women badasses. One thing I really missed were the songs and pretty dresses and happy little moments of life. They had a very twisted way of seeing the world, and women fared very badly at their hands. Tolkien takes time for those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted November 3, 2022 Share Posted November 3, 2022 4 hours ago, Le Cygne said: I like that Tolkien's female characters had a soft side to them, too. You can be powerful and still be gentle and kind (of course men can be these things, too). But Benioff and Weiss seemed hell bent on making women badasses. One thing I really missed were the songs and pretty dresses and happy little moments of life. They had a very twisted way of seeing the world, and women fared very badly at their hands. Tolkien takes time for those things. Their philosophical outlook seems pretty nihilistic and horrible. But am I flattering them by suggesting any philosophical outlook at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted November 3, 2022 Author Share Posted November 3, 2022 13 hours ago, Le Cygne said: One thing I really missed were the songs and pretty dresses and happy little moments of life. They had a very twisted way of seeing the world, and women fared very badly at their hands. Tolkien takes time for those things. Well, Martin isn't exactly accommodating towards that side much. Just look at how many singers get maimed and how much Sansa is reminded that life is not a song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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