Falcon and The Winter Soldier: These Turkish Delights Have Violent Ends (Spoilers)

[Rhom]

8 hours ago, TrueMetis said:

Bout the only real exception I think is Doctor Strange and Dormammu. Which also had the added advantage of not being a conventional end fight.

But then IIRC didn't Benedict Cumberbatch do the motion capture work for that? So it does end up just being kind of Doctor Strange vs Doctor Strange.

Well, the GotG movies didn’t have that feature.  I also don’t know that I really think the Thor movies did that too much.  (Robot thing was really just there as something to fight, not really a villain.  The Dark Elves weren’t just mirror Thor.  Neither was Hela.)

But yeah, I left off Killmonger from BP as well.

[sifth]

3 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Well, the GotG movies didn’t have that feature.  I also don’t know that I really think the Thor movies did that too much.  (Robot thing was really just there as something to fight, not really a villain.  The Dark Elves weren’t just mirror Thor.  Neither was Hela.)

But yeah, I left off Killmonger from BP as well.

Killmonger is a strange case. He starts out as his own man, but then slowly devolves into "evil Black Panther" in the second half of the film. Basically he ceases to be anything, but an evil reflection of the main hero, from every scene after his "burn it all down" moment. To be honest, Killmonger is one of the strangest cases because in the final climax, I still get mixed up on which Black Panther he is and which one is T'Challa. You think they could have made his costume a little more different, from the heroes, aside from a different color stripe.

I think the GotG have some of the more interesting villains, since they're always so different from the heroes and helps them standout more to me. Assuming Adam Warlock is going to be the villain of the third film, this will continue to be the case.

[TheLastWolf]

https://www.thehindu.com/society/super-twist-in-the-plot/article34333164.ece

I found it interesting, worth introspection

[red snow]

I thought the pacing was really off in the last episode. It felt like an end of season wrap up after the first 10 minutes so I was quite surprised there was another episode or more remaining. 

I did laugh at the straight-faced training montage though.

 

[TrueMetis]

2 hours ago, sifth said:

Killmonger is a strange case. He starts out as his own man, but then slowly devolves into "evil Black Panther" in the second half of the film. Basically he ceases to be anything, but an evil reflection of the main hero, from every scene after his "burn it all down" moment. To be honest, Killmonger is one of the strangest cases because in the final climax, I still get mixed up on which Black Panther he is and which one is T'Challa. You think they could have made his costume a little more different, from the heroes, aside from a different color stripe.

I think the GotG have some of the more interesting villains, since they're always so different from the heroes and helps them standout more to me. Assuming Adam Warlock is going to be the villain of the third film, this will continue to be the case.

Personally I think it's actually kind of the opposite in that case, Killmonger remains consistent in his goals and motivations it's T'Challa who changes in response to his struggles in regards to what Wakanda is and what it could be resulting in T'Challa becoming more like Killmonger as he begins to agree with the goals and not the methods.

[sifth]

2 hours ago, TrueMetis said:

Personally I think it's actually kind of the opposite in that case, Killmonger remains consistent in his goals and motivations it's T'Challa who changes in response to his struggles in regards to what Wakanda is and what it could be resulting in T'Challa becoming more like Killmonger as he begins to agree with the goals and not the methods.

I don’t think that at all. Killmonger was trying to take over the world for no reason other than he went mad with power. He had no hidden agenda of taking over the world to help others. If anything I view the ending as T’Challa coming to understand his father was a flawed man and trying to be someone better.

[DaveSumm]

1 minute ago, sifth said:

I don’t think that at all. Killmonger was trying to take over the world for no reason other than he went mad with power. He had no hidden agenda of taking over the world to help others. If anything I view the ending ad T’Challa coming to understand his father was a flawed man and trying to be someone better.

Maaaaybe in the later half of the film once he’s got the title he goes a bit power hungry, but before that (and still a bit after) his whole reasoning is that Wakanda should never have stood by while black people across the world suffered. And it’s what makes him such a well regarded villain, that he has a point. It’s certainly a valid point of view that hoarding technology that could’ve eased this suffering is questionable. However, he went too far in that he wanted to arm black people and essentially trigger a race war.

In the league table of MCU villains who want to take over the world for no other reason than going mad with power, Killmonger is waaaaay down the bottom.

[RumHam]

The Falcon and the Winter Soldiers Subtitles Confirm Shady Sharon Carter Connection

Huh, I thought that it was evident who she was speaking to. I'm pretty sure I could hear him cursing her out in french over the phone. But even without realizing she was talking to a french person that phone call scene would have seemed totally random if you didn't make the connection when Batroc showed up in the park. 

[Argonath Diver]

I didn't have subtitles on and still thought it was clear she was speaking to Batroc. From my eyes anyway, it seems so obvious that she is the PB at this point that they didn't bother with any reasoning otherwise. 

[briantw]

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

The Falcon and the Winter Soldiers Subtitles Confirm Shady Sharon Carter Connection

Huh, I thought that it was evident who she was speaking to. I'm pretty sure I could hear him cursing her out in french over the phone. But even without realizing she was talking to a french person that phone call scene would have seemed totally random if you didn't make the connection when Batroc showed up in the park. 

Apparently what he yelled was something to the effect of, "Last time I worked with you, I lost half my team and ended up in jail."  I'm paraphrasing, because I watched the YouTube video that translated him yesterday, but you get the idea.  It definitely implies that it was Sharon who hired him for whatever he was doing in the first episode.

[Leofric]

1 hour ago, briantw said:

Apparently what he yelled was something to the effect of, "Last time I worked with you, I lost half my team and ended up in jail."  I'm paraphrasing, because I watched the YouTube video that translated him yesterday, but you get the idea.  It definitely implies that it was Sharon who hired him for whatever he was doing in the first episode.

Or it could go all the way back to Captain America: Winter Soldier and she was the the one who hired Batroc using the Powerbroker alias on Fury's orders to attack the Shield surveillance ship so Natalia could slip in and steal the files under cover of the rescue operation.    The Power Broker may have started as one of her deep cover aliases that she hid under when when she had to go on the run and she expanded it in the last 5 years.  

[Kalbear]

1 hour ago, Leofric said:

Or it could go all the way back to Captain America: Winter Soldier and she was the the one who hired Batroc using the Powerbroker alias on Fury's orders to attack the Shield surveillance ship so Natalia could slip in and steal the files under cover of the rescue operation.    The Power Broker may have started as one of her deep cover aliases that she hid under when when she had to go on the run and she expanded it in the last 5 years.  

That...would make a hell of a lot of sense. 

[briantw]

8 minutes ago, Karlbear said:

That...would make a hell of a lot of sense. 

Didn't Batroc get away in Winter Soldier?  I seem to remember he tossed a grenade at Captain America and Black Widow and made his escape in the aftermath.

[Jaxom 1974]

29 minutes ago, briantw said:

Didn't Batroc get away in Winter Soldier?  I seem to remember he tossed a grenade at Captain America and Black Widow and made his escape in the aftermath.

He was captured at some point, as Pierce showed Cap a video of him being interrogated...

The Sharon/Power Broker idea that it's an old cover... yeah...I could get behind that idea...

[briantw]

12 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

He was captured at some point, as Pierce showed Cap a video of him being interrogated...

Good catch.  I just remembered him chucking the grenade and peacing out.  

[RumHam]

3 hours ago, Leofric said:

Or it could go all the way back to Captain America: Winter Soldier and she was the the one who hired Batroc using the Powerbroker alias on Fury's orders to attack the Shield surveillance ship so Natalia could slip in and steal the files under cover of the rescue operation.    The Power Broker may have started as one of her deep cover aliases that she hid under when when she had to go on the run and she expanded it in the last 5 years.  

This makes a lot of sense.

I could also see @JEORDHl 's idea of her being a Skrull panning out. A Skrull who used sharon's connections a played the long game when shit hit the fan and they were left without any support from Fury or Soren or Ben Menhelson. 

Or like a skrull is simming Carter when the snap happens. Not maliciously just the way Mendelson was impersonating Fury so he could vacation. Real carter gets snapped but Skrull carter undercover in madripoor does not. Sharon comes back with everyone else but Skrull-sharon is unwilling to give up the identity and imprisons her. 

I'm just thinking like this show is setting up Thunderbolts but Secret Invasion is probably coming first since they've actually announced it. Someone has to end up being a malicious Skrull. Sharon-Skrull stuck on earth as half her people vanish makes sense? 

[The Bard of Banefort]

So I should preface this by saying that although I've seen at least part of all the MCU movies, they've never really been my thing. I like some characters and some of the movies, but mostly I find them pretty bland, and I'm not sure why. As cheesy as it sounds, it makes me happy that Marvel makes other people happy.

The cynical part of my brain kind of figured that Sam got the shield instead of Bucky because Falcon doesn't sell as much merch as the Winter Soldier does, so they wouldn't be losing a valuable IP by merging him with Captain America. That's not to say that Falcon doesn't have what it takes to be Cap, only that I doubt they make any big decisions without first considering every angle.

Overall, I would say this show is. . . inconsistent. I thought episodes 4 and 5 were a big step up from 1-3, but the writing isn't great. A lot of the humor is kind of schlocky, and not all of the social commentary lands. But most of all, for two guys who always give such funny interviews, Sam and Bucky just don't really have enough chemistry, in my opinion. Maybe that's the biggest problem: most of these characters just don't mesh that well together on-screen.

Poor Sharon still gets nothing to do, even when she's the third-billed character. No idea if she's the power broker or not. Maybe they'll bring Zola back (again) and he'll turn out to be the power broker :p 

When Scientist Man said that the serum was cloned from an "American super soldier," I thought it was going to be revealed that the super soldier in question had been Bucky, not Isaiah (I guess that could still happen, but I'm probably overthinking it). After Bucky mentioned having a sister in the first episode, I was hoping that he would try to find his remaining family at some point. There was a joke going around reddit about how Mark Hamill should play his long-lost nephew 

Oh, and then there's the Flag Smashers. They're. . . there, I guess.

Anyway, I suppose the last episode will determine how good the show is overall. As of now, I'm a little underwhelmed.

[RumHam]

I just realized there's probably a good chance Walker ends up in a cell next to Zemo. I wonder if we'll get Ross and/or Julia Louis-Dryfuss's character making them an offer. 

[Werthead]

11 hours ago, RumHam said:

I just realized there's probably a good chance Walker ends up in a cell next to Zemo. I wonder if we'll get Ross and/or Julia Louis-Dryfuss's character making them an offer. 

If they're not setting up Thunderbolts, they really should be at this point.

[Which Tyler]

I think they forgot that Sam's not had any serum