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Falcon and The Winter Soldier: These Turkish Delights Have Violent Ends (Spoilers)


Corvinus85

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1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Sam told him that his list was him “avenging, not amending.” So I took that to mean that him giving the book away was a sign that he wasn’t going to seek vengeance. 

The note says "I finished the book" and all the names have been crossed out.

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6 hours ago, Lord of Rhinos said:

And it is actually wildly incredible.

I think there's a difference between 'wildly incredible' and 'not what I expected'. That would be my final comment though.

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7 hours ago, Lord of Rhinos said:

I mean the whole being framed for the murder of a head of state, the resulting international manhunt, and it ended with half of the Avengers becoming fugitives, would indicate that the world is pretty familiar with Bucky Barnes.

Like I said, familiar: yes, knowing he killed their loved one: no.

Nobody in the general populace knew about the WS until the second movie. They all just thought their loved one died in some horrific incident, usually where a significant personage was killed by unknown assassin.

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7 hours ago, john said:

Like I said, familiar: yes, knowing he killed their loved one: no.

Nobody in the general populace knew about the WS until the second movie. They all just thought their loved one died in some horrific incident, usually where a significant personage was killed by unknown assassin.

I think people know there is a guy called "The Winter Soldier" but like Bucky's date clearly did not know that it was him. When he says how old he is she takes it for a joke. Which is a little weird because he was the most wanted man in the world during Civil War. Buy maybe he still had the long hair then? I can't remember. Actually that woman could have been a pretty young during Civil War if she wasn't snapped so maybe that explains it. 

It's unclear to me if the old guy knew his new friend was a super-hero. 

 

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It feels like a cliche to talk about the perils of men writing women these days, but the women on this show were so underwritten that I basically forgot about them until now. The closest thing we get to growth was Sam’s sister deciding not to sell her boat. Even Sharon’s big reveal was just that: a big reveal. The change happened before the show started. 
 

I saw someone theorize that this show was more of a “side quest,” so that people who only watch the movies won’t feel like they missed anything. Endgame ends with Sam having been named Cap and Bucky seemingly ready to move on with his life, and that’s where the show ends too. 

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3 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I saw someone theorize that this show was more of a “side quest,” so that people who only watch the movies won’t feel like they missed anything.

I don't think this was intentional. WandaVision had some pretty major stuff in it. Secret Invasion is supposed to be the big event of Phase 4. 

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30 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

It feels like a cliche to talk about the perils of men writing women these days, but the women on this show were so underwritten that I basically forgot about them until now. The closest thing we get to growth was Sam’s sister deciding not to sell her boat. Even Sharon’s big reveal was just that: a big reveal. The change happened before the show started. 
 

I saw someone theorize that this show was more of a “side quest,” so that people who only watch the movies won’t feel like they missed anything. Endgame ends with Sam having been named Cap and Bucky seemingly ready to move on with his life, and that’s where the show ends too. 

The men were under written too.. everything was.

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20 hours ago, mormont said:

I think there's a difference between 'wildly incredible' and 'not what I expected'. That would be my final comment though.

The scene was exactly what I expected. Poorly written and unbelievable just like the rest of the show.

11 hours ago, RumHam said:

I think people know there is a guy called "The Winter Soldier" but like Bucky's date clearly did not know that it was him. When he says how old he is she takes it for a joke. Which is a little weird because he was the most wanted man in the world during Civil War. Buy maybe he still had the long hair then? I can't remember. Actually that woman could have been a pretty young during Civil War if she wasn't snapped so maybe that explains it. 

It's unclear to me if the old guy knew his new friend was a super-hero. 

 

I think it is pretty clear that Leah and Yoki have no idea who Bucky is, but the fact Yoki and Bucky seem to have a regular weekly meal at the same restaurant without people realizing who Bucky isn't believable. Individuals not recognizing a celebrity could happen but groups of people not recognizing one isn't believable.

7 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

It feels like a cliche to talk about the perils of men writing women these days, but the women on this show were so underwritten that I basically forgot about them until now. The closest thing we get to growth was Sam’s sister deciding not to sell her boat. Even Sharon’s big reveal was just that: a big reveal. The change happened before the show started. 
 

I saw someone theorize that this show was more of a “side quest,” so that people who only watch the movies won’t feel like they missed anything. Endgame ends with Sam having been named Cap and Bucky seemingly ready to move on with his life, and that’s where the show ends too. 

It doesn't seem like characters were underwritten because they were women but just because the show was rushing to hit arbitrary plot points.

 

I haven't seen any evidence that Marvel is treating the shows any different than the movies as far as importance goes.  Half the movies don't really have anything important happen either in the grand scheme of the MCU.

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On 4/27/2021 at 5:07 AM, Karlbear said:

Unrelated, and amazing Liefeldian rendition

 

 

Iconic 20+ years later. I remember there was a website highlighting the anatomically bizarre renditions of liefeld that was hilarious.

 

12 hours ago, Lord of Rhinos said:

The scene was exactly what I expected. Poorly written and unbelievable just like the rest of the show.

I think it is pretty clear that Leah and Yoki have no idea who Bucky is, but the fact Yoki and Bucky seem to have a regular weekly meal at the same restaurant without people realizing who Bucky isn't believable. Individuals not recognizing a celebrity could happen but groups of people not recognizing one isn't believable.

It doesn't seem like characters were underwritten because they were women but just because the show was rushing to hit arbitrary plot points.

 

I haven't seen any evidence that Marvel is treating the shows any different than the movies as far as importance goes.  Half the movies don't really have anything important happen either in the grand scheme of the MCU.

I think the last paragraph sums up the pros and cons of the show for me. For better or worse this felt more like a marvel film than wandavision.

I enjoyed zemo. I thought winter soldier was largely sidelined and that him expressing interest in becoming the next captain America could have justified the show's title. Mackie is very likeable but his character to wobbles especially in terms of competency.

I don't entirely get the "everyone should recognise the winter soldier" argument. He was never officially an avenger. Had a mask on in the situations he may have been caught on camera causing trouble. So I think he's believable as being under the radar with the general public. The falcon was recognised but he is an avenger.

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Bucky was framed for setting off a massive bomb at the U.N., murdering the King of Wakanda.  He was the subject of an international man hunt that was broadcasting his picture far and wide.  The manhunt ended with half the avengers becoming fugitives for years. His picture is hanging on the wall of the Smithsonian.  It is save to say that the Bucky Barnes is very famous.

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2 minutes ago, Lord of Rhinos said:

Bucky was framed for setting off a massive bomb at the U.N., murdering the King of Wakanda.  He was the subject of an international man hunt that was broadcasting his picture far and wide.  The manhunt ended with half the avengers becoming fugitives for years. His picture is hanging on the wall of the Smithsonian.  It is save to say that the Bucky Barnes is very famous.

7 years have passed since then.  7 years ago Cliven Bundy was all over the news (broadcast far and wide one might say), and I have very little doubt that anybody would recognize him today.  So I don't think this argument really holds much water given the length of time since the event, his subsequent pardon, the blip, the world getting turned upside down after the return, and him seemingly keeping a low profile.  Nothing would point to him being "very famous", and the story emphasizes this. 

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I really liked the series, but I have two major gripes.

1) The new suit is stupid looking.  The padded legs, the shoulder pads, the exposed head, the neck cowl.  All of it was completely unnecessary.  Hopefully they shore that up before the movie, because it was fugly.

2) When he was getting his ass kicked and kept getting up, how in the world did the writers miss the opportunity for him to say "I could do this all day".  Such a wasted opportunity.

Ok... not major gripes ;)

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Just now, aceluby said:

I really liked the series, but I have two major gripes.

1) The new suit is stupid looking.  The padded legs, the shoulder pads, the exposed head, the neck cowl.  All of it was completely unnecessary.  Hopefully they shore that up before the movie, because it was 

2) When he was getting his ass kicked and kept getting up, how in the world did the writers miss the opportunity for him to say "I could do this all day".  Such a wasted opportunity.

Ok... not major gripes ;)

Ha, that's Steve's saying, Sam needs his own. I'd say it fits with the character. Steve's reasons for not staying down are different from Sam's. 

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3 hours ago, red snow said:

I thought winter soldier was largely sidelined and that him expressing interest in becoming the next captain America could have justified the show's title. Mackie is very likeable but his character to wobbles especially in terms of competency.

It might have been an interesting angle to have Bucky believe that anyone is better than Walker, so he takes the shield from him temporarily. If Sam won’t step up then I’ll have to, kinda thing. Then he could make some kind of error as a result of his guilt, Sam steps up, and it leads organically into Bucky seeking to make amends, plus gives him more to do in the series.

3 minutes ago, aceluby said:

the neck cowl. 

He seemed to have a slight case of Keaton’s Batman neck as well, where the cowl prevents him from turning his head naturally so he turns his whole body.

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Just now, Corvinus85 said:

Ha, that's Steve's saying, Sam needs his own. I'd say it fits with the character. Steve's reasons for not staying down are different from Sam's. 

Oh, I don't think it should be his saying, but I do think a little throwback fan service in that moment would've been fun :) 

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