Falcon and The Winter Soldier: These Turkish Delights Have Violent Ends (Spoilers)

[Spockydog]

3 hours ago, red snow said:

Iconic 20+ years later. I remember there was a website highlighting the anatomically bizarre renditions of liefeld that was hilarious.

I mean, it does look a bit shit. 

[Spockydog]

56 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Ha, that's Steve's saying, Sam needs his own. I'd say it fits with the character. 

I know! How about something like this?

[Lord of Rhinos]

1 hour ago, aceluby said:

7 years have passed since then.  7 years ago Cliven Bundy was all over the news (broadcast far and wide one might say), and I have very little doubt that anybody would recognize him today.  So I don't think this argument really holds much water given the length of time since the event, his subsequent pardon, the blip, the world getting turned upside down after the return, and him seemingly keeping a low profile.  Nothing would point to him being "very famous", and the story emphasizes this. 

Bucky is Osama Bin Laden not Cliven Bundy.  And the series has multiple randos clock Bucky as being the Winter Soldier. Also, he's explicitly an Avenger.

[RumHam]

10 minutes ago, Lord of Rhinos said:

Bucky is Osama Bin Laden not Cliven Bundy.  And the series has multiple randos clock Bucky as being the Winter Soldier. Also, he's explicitly an Avenger.

Actually Bucky is explicitly not an Avenger. It comes up when they're going to visit Zemo. He doesn't want Sam to come because Sam is an Avenger. 

[Lord of Rhinos]

9 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Actually Bucky is explicitly not an Avenger. It comes up when they're going to visit Zemo. He doesn't want Sam to come because Sam is an Avenger. 

Bucky: How'd you find us now?

Battlestar: C'mon man, you really think two Avengers can walk around Latvia without drawing attention?

[aceluby]

28 minutes ago, Lord of Rhinos said:

Bucky is Osama Bin Laden not Cliven Bundy.  And the series has multiple randos clock Bucky as being the Winter Soldier. Also, he's explicitly an Avenger.

I don’t dispute that someone could recognize him, I dispute your claim that he is “very famous”. He was on the news once, 7 years ago, and has a small section in a DC museum. Comparing his infamy to Bin Laden, who was on TV nearly every day for a decade is laughable. 

[john]

Hang on, you can’t just pick and choose which bits of the show you want to believe.

Lemar thinks Bucky is an Avenger and the old guy and his granddaughter don’t know or don’t care who he is. Either way, there’s nothing inconsistent or unbelievable about it.

[Quijote Light]

I see people mentioned in my News feed all the time that I assume are famous, but I couldn’t pick them out of a lineup. I don’t see anything weird about that. And some people would assume the Avengers membership for Ant-man too, but I don’t think he was ever a member. 

[RumHam]

1 hour ago, Lord of Rhinos said:

Bucky: How'd you find us now?

Battlestar: C'mon man, you really think two Avengers can walk around Latvia without drawing attention?

I guess maybe he doesn't consider himself one? Or at least doesn't think Zemo will consider him one. 

[Lord of Rhinos]

51 minutes ago, aceluby said:

I don’t dispute that someone could recognize him, I dispute your claim that he is “very famous”. He was on the news once, 7 years ago, and has a small section in a DC museum. Comparing his infamy to Bin Laden, who was on TV nearly every day for a decade is laughable. 

He's famous enough that random bystanders around the world keep identifying him on sight.  Also, at the end of Civil War, Bucky is still a wanted fugitive.  He's someone who was in the news for years. 

46 minutes ago, john said:

Hang on, you can’t just pick and choose which bits of the show you want to believe.

Lemar thinks Bucky is an Avenger and the old guy and his granddaughter don’t know or don’t care who he is. Either way, there’s nothing inconsistent or unbelievable about it.

I certainly can.

There is no granddaughter, just a waitress.

The problem isn't that Yoki or Leah don't know who he is. The problem is that he's been going to the same crowded restaurant every Wednesday for weeks.  When entering a crowded bar in Madripoor random people realize who he is within seconds.

13 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I guess maybe he doesn't consider himself one? Or at least doesn't think Zemo will consider him one. 

I would say it is bad writing, but if I was forced to reconcile the two statements I would go with Sam has no relationship with Zemo, and the Avengers are responsible for the destruction of Sokovia, so Zemo is less likely to spill the info if Sam is there. Zemo is more likely to talk to Bucky due to their personal relationship and because Bucky wasn't affiliated with the team when Sokovia was destroyed.

No character ever says that Bucky isn't an Avenger.  It is an implicit assumption based on what he says to Sam.

[The Bard of Banefort]

So the showrunner just did an interview where he said that Bucky is not the Winter Soldier anymore, even though the show ends with "Captain America and the Winter Soldier."

https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/falcon-and-winter-soldier-bucky-barnes-new-name-malcolm-spellman/

I dunno, guys. . . this is kind of reminding me of D&D a little, where what they would say in interviews didn't match what we saw on screen. I really feel like Marvel dropped the ball with this one.

[felice]

4 hours ago, Lord of Rhinos said:

When entering a crowded bar in Madripoor random people realize who he is within seconds.

I think that particular bar attracted a rather niche clientele.

[RumHam]

4 hours ago, Lord of Rhinos said:

No character ever says that Bucky isn't an Avenger.  It is an implicit assumption based on what he says to Sam.

Quote

 

Bucky: I'm going to go in alone.

Sam: Why?

Bucky: Because you're an avenger. You know how he feels about that. 

 

It seems pretty clear that Bucky doesn't consider himself an avenger. I don't see why he would. He only fought with them against Thanos. So if he's an avenger so is Howard the Duck. 

[DMC]

Count me among those who is unimpressed with Sam's new suit.  Him lecturing (US?) Senators in that thing looked pretty ridiculous - even within a superhero universe.  More important than the aesthetics, though, after the penultimate episode I expected the suit to be an "equalizer" of sorts, being from the Wakandans.  Basically, a Captain America version of the Black Panther suit with all its heightened abilities.  However, there was little to no indication of that in the prolonged action sequence in the finale, which was weird.

On people recognizing Bucky - I think it's pretty absurd to compare him to Osama Bin Laden.  First of all, the attack in Civil War is not anything like 9/11 - at least to Americans.  The most famous victim that we know of was an African king.  Second, he was exonerated of that attack by the end of Civil War.  Stark finds out Bucky was framed and has Friday send the information to Ross, presumably meaning the US government knows he wasn't culpable (not to mention, of course, they incarcerate Zemo presumably for that exact crime).  While Bucky may be still be a "fugitive" at the end of Civil War when T'Challa agrees to harbor him, it's quite the stretch to think he'd be a particularly famous one after those events.

[Heartofice]

Have to say , with Bucky’s $12 haircut and Zara jacket I don’t think I would recognise him as the winter soldier either. 
 

Guess the big metal arm is a bit of a tell 

[mormont]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

Count me among those who is unimpressed with Sam's new suit.  Him lecturing (US?) Senators in that thing looked pretty ridiculous - even within a superhero universe. 

The 'head sock' look is one of those things that looks fine on the page, but they've not yet figured out how to translate it to something that works on screen. I hope they revise it before Cap 4.

1 hour ago, DMC said:

More important than the aesthetics, though, after the penultimate episode I expected the suit to be an "equalizer" of sorts, being from the Wakandans.  Basically, a Captain America version of the Black Panther suit with all its heightened abilities.  However, there was little to no indication of that in the prolonged action sequence in the finale, which was weird.

It has the enhanced-senses goggles, of course, and built-in comms, the new wings (which appear to be vibranium), and the new Redwing, and the impression I got was that the material of the suit offered some protection, allowing Sam to take hits that would previously have felled him. It's not on par with the BP suit, though.

 

[TrueMetis]

It clearly adds something since he was able to lift that truck without being crushed between it and his wings.

[DMC]

I mean, yeah, if you dissect the entire action sequence there are things you can attribute to the new suit.  My complaint is that's never really demonstrated or emphasized within the sequence (at least from what I recall, only watched it once).

[john]

8 hours ago, Lord of Rhinos said:

I certainly can.

Well then, I hope you think it’s equally wildly incredible that the writers would put those words in Lemar’s mouth. In any case, you can’t use them to prove your point about a different unconnected section of the show.

I’m not sure why a crowded restaurant makes any difference. Possibly everybody in there knows who he is. People are just very casual with superheroes.

[john]

18 minutes ago, DMC said:

I mean, yeah, if you dissect the entire action sequence there are things you can attribute to the new suit.  My complaint is that's never really demonstrated or emphasized within the sequence (at least from what I recall, only watched it once).

I mean, we definitely had different impressions of that sequence. Didn’t a helicopter clip him when he was covered up by his wings? And there was that bit where struts slid out to brace him when he was grappling with a flag smasher. I thought they were going out of their way to show the suit compensated for lack of serum.