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Culture in the U.S.


gruff one

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 I believe there is a common culture in the U.S. I don't think there is a red state, blue state culture. All states share a common language, desired family structure, food, music, architecture, sports, value education, holidays, traditions, clothing and a desire for security.

 I do think there are policy differences on how to enhance the culture, between red and blue states.

 Red state, what does it take away from an individual to enhance the culture.

 Blue state, what does give an individual to enhance the culture.

 I do think the U.S. tries to integrate other cultures, and has given up on assimilating them.

 Thanks

 

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6 hours ago, gruff one said:

 I believe there is a common culture in the U.S. I don't think there is a red state, blue state culture. All states share a common language, desired family structure, food, music, architecture, sports, value education, holidays, traditions, clothing and a desire for security.

I disagree pretty heavily with this, how many dip chewing, venison bbqing, country listening too, big truck driving, good old boys voted for Biden. By the same token how many, arugala eating, vegatarian, classical music loving, prius driving, urbanites voted for Trump. Pretty much all of the things you mentioned have pretty heavily socially coded. I think the first half of this article really gets into how seperate these cultures are. 

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The Red Tribe is most classically typified by conservative political beliefs, strong evangelical religious beliefs, creationism, opposing gay marriage, owning guns, eating steak, drinking Coca-Cola, driving SUVs, watching lots of TV, enjoying American football, getting conspicuously upset about terrorists and commies, marrying early, divorcing early, shouting “USA IS NUMBER ONE!!!”, and listening to country music.

The Blue Tribe is most classically typified by liberal political beliefs, vague agnosticism, supporting gay rights, thinking guns are barbaric, eating arugula, drinking fancy bottled water, driving Priuses, reading lots of books, being highly educated, mocking American football, feeling vaguely like they should like soccer but never really being able to get into it, getting conspicuously upset about sexists and bigots, marrying later, constantly pointing out how much more civilized European countries are than America, and listening to “everything except country”.

I think these “tribes” will turn out to be even stronger categories than politics. Harvard might skew 80-20 in terms of Democrats vs. Republicans, 90-10 in terms of liberals vs. conservatives, but maybe 99-1 in terms of Blues vs. Reds.

It’s the many, many differences between these tribes that explain the strength of the filter bubble – which have I mentioned segregates people at a strength of 1/10^45? Even in something as seemingly politically uncharged as going to California Pizza Kitchen or Sushi House for dinner, I’m restricting myself to the set of people who like cute artisanal pizzas or sophsticated foreign foods, which are classically Blue Tribe characteristics.

Are these tribes based on geography? Are they based on race, ethnic origin, religion, IQ, what TV channels you watched as a kid? I don’t know.

The word “class” seems like the closest analogue, but only if you use it in the sophisticated Paul Fussell Guide Through the American Status System way instead of the boring “another word for how much money you make” way.

For now we can just accept them as a brute fact – as multiple coexisting societies that might as well be made of dark matter for all of the interaction they have with one another – and move on.

 

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7 hours ago, gruff one said:

 I believe there is a common culture in the U.S. I don't think there is a red state, blue state culture. All states share a common language, desired family structure, food, music, architecture, sports, value education, holidays, traditions, clothing and a desire for security.

 I do think there are policy differences on how to enhance the culture, between red and blue states.

 Red state, what does it take away from an individual to enhance the culture.

 Blue state, what does give an individual to enhance the culture.

 I do think the U.S. tries to integrate other cultures, and has given up on assimilating them.

 Thanks

 

I disagree with the entirety of your post and think it ignores that nonwhite people exist. I assure you my culture doesn’t share a language, desired family structure, architecture, values, holidays, or traditions with what you are talking about. And the US has absolutely not stopped trying to forcibly assimilate people.

This country is comprised of *countless* cultures.

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4 hours ago, Darzin said:

I disagree pretty heavily with this, how many dip chewing, venison bbqing, country listening too, big truck driving, good old boys voted for Biden. By the same token how many, arugala eating, vegatarian, classical music loving, prius driving, urbanites voted for Trump. Pretty much all of the things you mentioned have pretty heavily socially coded. I think the first half of this article really gets into how seperate these cultures are. 

 

Not cultures, they are individual choices, allowed in all states.

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4 hours ago, Fury Resurrected said:

I disagree with the entirety of your post and think it ignores that nonwhite people exist. I assure you my culture doesn’t share a language, desired family structure, architecture, values, holidays, or traditions with what you are talking about. And the US has absolutely not stopped trying to forcibly assimilate people.

This country is comprised of *countless* cultures.

American English, we are communicating in it now. Family isn't based on 2 parents? Houses all look the same. I think you do share the common holidays, and are allowed to celebrate your tribes own days.Who are these people using force?

I wrote of a common culture. There are many subcultures, I'm not going to argue their are not.

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20 minutes ago, gruff one said:

American English, we are communicating in it now. Family isn't based on 2 parents? Houses all look the same. I think you do share the common holidays, and are allowed to celebrate your tribes own days.Who are these people using force?

I wrote of a common culture. There are many subcultures, I'm not going to argue their are not.

Are you seriously going to tell someone else, a stranger to you, what their culture is or is not? Are you going to label their culture as a 'subculture' when you don't even know what culture they're talking about?

As for the rest, you can't just pick out high level abstract elements shared by several distinct cultures and say that's a culture. It's like saying mammals are all the same animal because they're all warm blooded and feed their young.

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1 hour ago, gruff one said:

Not cultures, they are individual choices, allowed in all states.

You've failed to define culture. Given this response, you need to present a definition before any meaningful discussion can take place.

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The word "culture" like many other terms gets used in different ways, and its use has broadened over my lifetime. People in business and administration now talk all the time about "organizational culture," which used to be called just "rules" or "atmosphere" of organizations.

Culture & Psychology was one of the courses I taught for years. David Matsumoto, one of the coauthors of the textbook I used, has the following definition of "culture":

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I define human culture as a unique meaning and information system, shared by a group and transmitted across generations, that allows the group to meet basic needs of survival, coordinate socially to achieve a viable existence, transmit social behavior, pursue happiness and well-being, and derive meaning from life.

The above is from: https://davidmatsumoto.com/content/2007 Matsumoto JOP.pdf

I think many of the differences the article Darzin has quoted above are intimately related to class differences. Unfortunately, one of the common "meanings" for the wider American culture, for both the "Reds" and "Blues" of that article, is to use what the author calls the "boring" definition of class as being just a matter of income. The differences of that article are much more related to education and occupational status than they are to income per se. 

That of course begs the question on whether or not class differences as described in that article are also "cultural" differences. A lot of that depends on what aspects of life one focuses on. I have a hard time seeing things like "drinking fancy bottled water", for instance, as being important cultural differences. That's superficial -- and very changeable, as for many people in what the above author would call the "Blue" tribe "fancy bottled water" is now seen as "ecologically incorrect." "Marrying early vs. marrying late" is an aspect of the Red vs. Blue difference that would be closer to a real difference in "culture" as I understand it, as that's an issue that has a strong impact on many other aspects of how one "meets basic needs" and "pursues happiness and well-being". 

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Completely and utterly disagree with nearly everything in the OP. 

I'm from a very conservative suburban town a mile from an Air Force Base. I lived most of my adult life in large cities. The difference in culture, attitude, entertainment, religion, appearance - you name it - is massive. 

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6 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said:

Completely and utterly disagree with nearly everything in the OP. 

I'm from a very conservative suburban town a mile from an Air Force Base. I lived most of my adult life in large cities. The difference in culture, attitude, entertainment, religion, appearance - you name it - is massive. 

And yet there is some irony to me in the above statement, as one of the consequences of living in an individualist culture is to focus on differences between people rather than similarities. And one of the main similarities of the so-called Red and Blue is their individualism, being part of the most individualistic country in the world. So a common aspect of the overarching American culture is probably to see the differences as being more "massive" than they really are. 

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1 hour ago, mormont said:

Are you seriously going to tell someone else, a stranger to you, what their culture is or is not? Are you going to label their culture as a 'subculture' when you don't even know what culture they're talking about?

As for the rest, you can't just pick out high level abstract elements shared by several distinct cultures and say that's a culture. It's like saying mammals are all the same animal because they're all warm blooded and feed their young.

I seriously am not defining @Fury's as subpar. I am saying it is a culture, within a culture. The common culture accepts this now. I do think the U.S. fucks up when it tries to assimilate another culture.

All mammals are the same in being warm blooded, feed their young, the common culture. How they go about it the subculture.

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2 hours ago, gruff one said:

American English, we are communicating in it now. Family isn't based on 2 parents? Houses all look the same. I think you do share the common holidays, and are allowed to celebrate your tribes own days.Who are these people using force?

I wrote of a common culture. There are many subcultures, I'm not going to argue their are not.

Imma just gonna pile on here.  

1.  This was written in American English?  (The grammar police would beg to differ).

2.  Common holidays?  Please unpack that and support your statement based on your vast knowledge of each of our observances.

3.   Please explain the relevance of “force”?

4.  You imply that family is based on two parents.  Please support and defend that proposition (and bonus points if you don’t dig a deep hole in the process).

5.  Please explain and support your contention that “houses all look the same” despite significant visual evidence to the contrary.  Please also explain how this applies to apartment dwellers.

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Every word in the OP displays the OP's ignorance of every aspect of the US, including its history and geography, and the vast variety and diversity of those who live here.  No conversation thus possible

 

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1 minute ago, Zorral said:

Every word in the OP displays the OP's ignorance of every aspect of the US, including its history and geography, and the vast variety and diversity of those who live here.  No conversation thus possible

 

No conversation is possible with someone who's ignorant? Doesn't seem like you believe in education. :)

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6 minutes ago, Ormond said:

No conversation is possible with someone who's ignorant? Doesn't seem like you believe in education. :)

If 2016 + taught me anything it's that education is impossible for a whole lot of people because they don't believe it, only in what they want to believe, no matter how stupid and crazy and just plain wrong, if for no other reason than facts etc. militate against their own political and social power agendas.  I've also learned to identify who those people are by their initial tone.  They just want to blow hard and sea lion.  Like my mother's husband. He was the first one to teach me this.

 

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14 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Imma just gonna pile on here.  

1.  This was written in American English?  (The grammar police would beg to differ).

2.  Common holidays?  Please unpack that and support your statement based on your vast knowledge of each of our observances.

3.   Please explain the relevance of “force”?

4.  You imply that family is based on two parents.  Please support and defend that proposition (and bonus points if you don’t dig a deep hole in the process).

5.  Please explain and support your contention that “houses all look the same” despite significant visual evidence to the contrary.  Please also explain how this applies to apartment dwellers.

Imma, I understood. I admit, I do not write well.

1. I think we understand each other.

2. The federal holidays,free to participate or not.

3. The attempt to deny a subculture's practices.

4. I think common culture believes 2 parents is good.I know single parent households can be and are successful.

5. Look may have been the wrong word for me to use. Do most not contain the same things, living rooms, bathrooms, kitchens and bedrooms? 

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Feel like this thread is really running away from the OP.

I guess I sort of understand the point you are trying to make. In that people who live in red or blue states have more in common with each other than they have differences culturally, maybe in comparison to other more distinct cultures globally.

That might be true, though it’s complicated by the global spread of western culture anyway. 
 

This board tends to get quite hung up on the idea of a national culture anyway so I don’t think there will be much agreement here for you.

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39 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Every word in the OP displays the OP's ignorance of every aspect of the US, including its history and geography, and the vast variety and diversity of those who live here.  No conversation thus possible

 

Common Connie, are you denying that the things I listed as common culture are not desired by subcultures? We have a common history, independence, slavery, labor movements, civil rights, etc.

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