Culture in the U.S.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

5 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

We're seriously engaging in this? It sat there for hours being ignored, and sure it's wrong and poorly thought out and shouldn't go unchallenged... but if it was ignored, it would have just gone away...

It’s either this or I either (I) work or (ii) tackle unpacking some of the moving boxes I’m staring at.  What do you want from me?  I’m only human.

[gruff one]

Does culture drive the politics of the U.S.?

[Jaxom 1974]

13 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

It’s either this or I either (I) work or (ii) tackle unpacking some of the moving boxes I’m staring at.  What do you want from me?  I’m only human.

I don't know, feels like work or unpacking should feel miles better than engaging with this drivel...  

[Filippa Eilhart]

is this homework? 

[gruff one]

The OP was created in response to a statement made in U.S. Politics thread. The entrenched culture of Idaho and Wyoming, would not allow them to go blue. The culture of New York, would not allow it to go red.

[Argonath Diver]

49 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

It’s either this or I either (I) work or (ii) tackle unpacking some of the moving boxes I’m staring at.  What do you want from me?  I’m only human.

How American of you! 

(I kid, I kid)

[Wilbur]

I think that the "Red State / Blue State" construct frames American culture very poorly, and I am suspicious of it because it seems like a politician's view of the world.

If you are interested in a serious consideration of American cultural differences, I strongly recommend Colin Woodward's American Nations.  No single book can completely define the various cultural and ethnic facets of the States, but this book is a terrific view of how certain regions came to have unique cultural worldviews and identities.

And if you really want to have a better understanding of the idea that Americans have a single culture that is worlds apart from the rest of the world, live as an expatriate for several years in other countries.  Living overseas as both a child and later an adult changed and shaped my view of how the States is so singularly "other" than the rest of the world.  Not necessarily always better, but certainly not replicated elsewhere.

Live outside the US, then return and live in the States again, and the whole "Red State / Blue State" worldview comes across as bull$hit fed to the American people by politicians (and media personalities) who thrive and profit from disunity and political strife.  Americans would benefit from jettisoning the Culture Wars mentality and getting back to dialog and compromise.

Please also consider Charles Barkley on "Black vs White".

[Jaxom 1974]

47 minutes ago, Filippa Eilhart said:

is this homework? 

Feels more like really poorly constructed conservative performance art...

[gruff one]

Thank you Wilbur, I read the Wiki entry on "American Nation". I think there is a shared culture.

I thought the culture wars were dead and Tywin's post in U.S. Politics seemed to want to light them up again. 

[gruff one]

42 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Feels more like really poorly constructed conservative performance art...

No where in the post did I state my political views. If you want performance art, start the show, it will be a sight to see.

[Larry of the Lawn]

I guess overconsumption, gross waste, rationalization of needless inequality, support for imperialism, some weird need to always talk about how "great this country is" etc are fairly universal in the US. 

[S John]

@Darzin

Quote

 

The Red Tribe is most classically typified by conservative political beliefs, strong evangelical religious beliefs, creationism, opposing gay marriage, owning guns, eating steak, drinking Coca-Cola, driving SUVs, watching lots of TV, enjoying American football, getting conspicuously upset about terrorists and commies, marrying early, divorcing early, shouting “USA IS NUMBER ONE!!!”, and listening to country music.

The Blue Tribe is most classically typified by liberal political beliefs, vague agnosticism, supporting gay rights, thinking guns are barbaric, eating arugula, drinking fancy bottled water, driving Priuses, reading lots of books, being highly educated, mocking American football, feeling vaguely like they should like soccer but never really being able to get into it, getting conspicuously upset about sexists and bigots, marrying later, constantly pointing out how much more civilized European countries are than America, and listening to “everything except country”.

 

i get where the author is going with this but honestly I wouldn’t want to hang out with either one of those people. First is a moron, second is an insufferable dweeb. I think you’d find most Americans (at least those who are not caricatures of themselves) might broadly fit into one tribe or the other but will take an a la carte approach discarding certain items from ‘their’ list and even picking a few from the other. I’m more closely aligned with the second list, but there are several things on that list that I do not like, and a few on the first list that I do like.
 

Tribalism is really troubling though, not because we are filtering into camps with different likes and dislikes but because we live in increasingly disparate realities with both tribes able to exist entirely within a media and culture bubble that continually reinforces their worldview.

[gruff one]

I read this as over consumption, waste, inequality and imperialism are the culture in the U.S., I disagree. Nowhere have I stated how great or not great the U.S. is. In reply to larrytheimp.

 

[Fury Resurrected]

6 hours ago, gruff one said:

American English, we are communicating in it now. Family isn't based on 2 parents? Houses all look the same. I think you do share the common holidays, and are allowed to celebrate your tribes own days.Who are these people using force?

I wrote of a common culture. There are many subcultures, I'm not going to argue their are not.

I’m Ojibwe. I speak English because the BIA kidnapped my grandmother and beat and starved her for speaking Anishinaabemowin. English was forced upon me. Houses do not all look the same, again, check out some reservations. All of the things that you are listing are white colonist culture that were forced upon indigenous people. Nonwhite households are OFTEN multigenerational and the family structure is not merely or mostly two parents. And it was not legal to practice indigenous religion at all until the late 1970s. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here. I would prefer to live on my own nation’s land and speak my own nation’s language, but reservations are designed to offer no economic opportunity and keep indigenous people in poverty if they do not assimilate to colonist culture. That continues today and it is absolutely coercive.

[DMC]

19 hours ago, gruff one said:

I do think the U.S. tries to integrate other cultures, and has given up on assimilating them.

Curious as to the distinction between "integrate" and "assimilate" here..

2 hours ago, Wilbur said:

I strongly recommend Colin Woodward's American Nations. 

Seconded.  It's a fun, accessible, informative and succinct framework.

As for what "culture" means in the US, well, as Ormond alluded to, everyone has a different definition of that term and consequently one's definition is usually just employed to reinforce their own arguments or perspectives.  In terms of the American political context, it is certainly true that "red state vs. blue state" is a somewhat vapid oversimplification.  Obviously there are very blue areas in very red states and very red areas in very blue states. 

"Political culture" is generally just the composition and intersection of all the different characteristics that inform the attitudes/values/ideology of any given voter - urban/rural, education, income, race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation...In this context it's very true that the "culture wars" are often overstated in the US by amplifying wedge issues to cultivate partisan division.  Moreover, as has been emphasized recently but always was rather apparent, "values" - which are most closely/commonly associated with "political culture" - can often be quite pliable and/or compromised in order to maintain one's party ID.  

[Mindwalker]

Just now, DMC said:

Seconded.  It's a fun, accessible, informative and succinct framework.

 

He's read the wikipedia entry, so ... done.

[Maithanet]

22 minutes ago, DMC said:

As for what "culture" means in the US, well, as Ormond alluded to, everyone has a different definition of that term and consequently one's definition is usually just employed to reinforce their own arguments or perspectives.  In terms of the American political context, it is certainly true that "red state vs. blue state" is a somewhat vapid oversimplification.  Obviously there are very blue areas in very red states and very red areas in very blue states.

That's what has always frustrated me about red vs blue states.  There are maybe a few states that are sufficiently blue/red that you can say this about (Wyoming and Hawaii are basically one party states).  But the politics of most people in central Pennsylvania or central Philadelphia are totally dissimilar, whether that PA went "red" or "blue" in the last election.  Likewise the people in rural SW PA are politically indistinguishable from the people across the border in Garrett County, Maryland, in spite of the fact that Maryland is clearly "blue". 

[gruff one]

1 hour ago, Fury Resurrected said:

I’m Ojibwe. I speak English because the BIA kidnapped my grandmother and beat and starved her for speaking Anishinaabemowin. English was forced upon me. Houses do not all look the same, again, check out some reservations. All of the things that you are listing are white colonist culture that were forced upon indigenous people. Nonwhite households are OFTEN multigenerational and the family structure is not merely or mostly two parents. And it was not legal to practice indigenous religion at all until the late 1970s. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here. I would prefer to live on my own nation’s land and speak my own nation’s language, but reservations are designed to offer no economic opportunity and keep indigenous people in poverty if they do not assimilate to colonist culture. That continues today and it is absolutely coercive.

You are Ojibwe, not a question. I cannot change what happened to your Grandmother, I regret her treatment and the effect it has had on you and your family. I have been to reservations, they were not visits to gamble or buy smokes. The income disparity between tribes, I cannot explain. You have integrated yourself into a generally white culture, and have described yourself as successful. I don't think it's a secret, that a lot of white households have multiple generations living together. I think US culture accepts this if done by choice, and is working to change it if not by choice. If you are discriminated against take it to court, it will be more effective than standing outside yelling and holding a sign. I am on your side, I respect your thoughts.

[gruff one]

1 hour ago, Mindwalker said:

He's read the wikipedia entry, so ... done.

Not done, hoped you would have given me more time to read the whole book.

[Fury Resurrected]

4 minutes ago, gruff one said:

You are Ojibwe, not a question. I cannot change what happened to your Grandmother, I regret her treatment and the effect it has had on you and your family. I have been to reservations, they were not visits to gamble or buy smokes. The income disparity between tribes, I cannot explain. You have integrated yourself into a generally white culture, and have described yourself as successful. I don't think it's a secret, that a lot of white households have multiple generations living together. I think US culture accepts this if done by choice, and is working to change it if not by choice. If you are discriminated against take it to court, it will be more effective than standing outside yelling and holding a sign. I am on your side, I respect your thoughts.

I have not “integrated myself”. I was forced by economic circumstances that were engineered to create generational poverty for cultural holdouts to be integrated. The US culture, as evidenced by the ignorance of your original post- does not accept this and is not doing anything to change it at all. Tribal police cannot prosecute nonmembers (ie- white people) for felonies committed on the reservation. State and federal authorities do not take the jurisdiction only they can claim. Indigenous women suffer a 51% rape rate because of this loophole, which is a federal law. No amount of me suing or yelling or standing outside with a sign as you put it will change that the laws of this country are a tool of genocide against my culture.