Covid-19 #30: Vaccines and All That JJAZ

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Clueless Northman said:

And I "suggested" this as in "This is what might happen if nothing is done to push for vaccines", not as in "advocated". I think some countries should actually make it mandatory. At least, I hope all airplane companies and all airports will limit flights to vaccinated people, and countries will limit entry through airports to vaccinated people only. It's a big incentive for the careless crowd to actually get the jab - as you and others have said before.

They won't though, especially not on domestic flights.  Because, you know, unregulated airlines.  Even now there is no need to be vaccinated to fly anywhere in the US from anywhere in the US.  The airlines are no longer keeping the middle seats empty.  The cabins are filled.

 

[Padraig]

3 hours ago, JEORDHl said:

Right, but talking chance is still oddspak no matter which type of clotting you're discussing, so I don't think there is another way. Poo-pooing on someone for bringing up comparative clotting issues with the pill, or pregnancy, or general covid in comparison is still a borderline asshole thing to do. I mean, John Q. Public, unfortunately, really isn't going to parse the scale between how serious the AZ clots are and say, DVT. They're just not.

I'm uncomfortable with that train of thought.  You just need one person online to make a good meme about how "we" are being lied to.  That the government is ignoring how serious this blood disorder is.  Its not like a "normal" blood clot at all etc.  Tie that to somebody who has actually died and you are in a bad space.

I do agree that it is important to make the risk real to people (that it's very very small).  I think its important to note that we do a lot riskier things every day.  What ljkeane and william suggested seem less open to exploitation IMO.

And yes, the AZ story is far from ideal.  Ironically, this is the kind of thing that those governments wanted to avoid.  They didn't want to sign off on a vaccine without sufficient data, which then ended up causing deaths. Every step individually makes a certain amount of sense but when you step back, it does read badly.

PS: I'd feel very sorry if somebody reading these threads ended up reluctant to take the vaccine.  I'm pretty sure that is nobody's intention here.

[Fragile Bird]

Well, Ontario has just dropped the age for the AZ vaccine from 55 to 40.

[DireWolfSpirit]

 

https://www.singlecare.com/blog/news/vaccination-statistics/

For me it's just the very simple calculus that I believe it's way more dangerous to not take the vaccine than the rare risk the side effects pose.

 

How many people die from vaccinations?

It’s difficult to know precisely how many people have died directly due to vaccinations. Many studies report death rates for vaccines like smallpox to be around one death for every 1 million vaccinated. From 2000 to 2015, 104 deaths were reported and in some way attributed to the measles vaccine. However, the reporting system is unable to establish a confirmed causal relationship between the vaccination and subsequent death. 

Is there statistical evidence that vaccines decrease infection?

There’s a lot of statistical evidence showing how vaccines decrease infection. The WHO, CDC, and UNICEF continuously publish information regarding the effectiveness of vaccines.  

What is the mortality rate of people who have not been vaccinated?

More than 1.5 million people die every year around the world from not being vaccinated.

Eta:^^^^^Of course this info is pre pandemic as we've lost 3 million from covid alone.

[DireWolfSpirit]

This article is saying we have jabbed 50% of our adult population so that's better than I thought we were doing at least.

"Half Of U.S. Adults Have Now Received At Least 1 COVID-19 Shot | HuffPost" https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_607c7919e4b058846f25a55c

[Zorral]

3 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

This article is saying we have jabbed 50% of our adult population so that's better than I thought we were doing at least.

"Half Of U.S. Adults Have Now Received At Least 1 COVID-19 Shot | HuffPost" https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_607c7919e4b058846f25a55c

I see that being reported on other sites too, but that's not what the CDC says, or the NY Times and other places.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations

CDC says of today, 39+ % have received at least one dose.

 

[DireWolfSpirit]

I thought it sounded too high to be true??

[Altherion]

41 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

I thought it sounded too high to be true??

The difference is in what exactly is being used as the denominator. The 39% refers to the percentage of those vaccinated relative to the entire population (including children) whereas the 50% is the percentage of all adults (and only adults).

[rotting sea cow]

14 hours ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

One thing I noticed is that a lot of English speaking articles I have read about the topic just talk about "blood clots" while German articles tend to mention that the main problem are "Hirnvenenthrombose"(Cerebral vein thrombosis) which tends to be far more serious than most other kinds of blood clots.

Yeah. British media in particular have shown their true colors. Going from denying the issue before knowing the facts to throwing misleading stats. And they call them "independent" when they have became the mouth piece of their government. 

13 hours ago, JEORDHl said:

Anticoagulant lifer here, but prevalence of incidence is the point, not the comparison per se, ergo- a comparative disarmament of AZ hesitancy.

No. Because they are completely different health issues. You could throw in the same stats heart attacks and car accidents and the comparison would be equally "fair".

Again. A risk-benefit conversation is something we could have, but not on the basis of sweeping things under the rug. The latest is going to drive vaccine hesitancy more than anything because it's not like that governments and health agencies have a high credibility ground in these times after the many fuck-ups during the management of this crisis. They need to be crystal clear

and btw. I'm registered for vaccination even if that meant AZ and I did it after the news broke up because I finally saw the relevant authorities acting and getting their shit together. Unfortunately, AZ has been restricted for over 60yo and they don't let people make their minds, so who knows when I'm getting the vaccine.

[Filippa Eilhart]

from the European perspective, the choice isn't "AZ or nothing", it's "AZ or Pfizer/Moderna". And from this perspective, you have one vaccine that is less efficient (to the point of almost no efficacy against mild disease and unknown efficacy for preventing serious disease for the SA variant, which in parts of Europe represents a very significant 30% of cases) AND sometimes causes serious health problems which are not easily treated, and on the other hand you have a safe and efficient vaccine with no problems. Is it surprising people are hesitant to get the first and would rather get the second?

[Fragile Bird]

I have been having a running argument with a woman on Facebook who has been angrily demanding, in the comments section of a J&J story, why there are no stories about “all the men who are dying” from strokes after getting the J&J vaccine. I kept pointing out there are no reports of men in that situation and she kept insisting there were, so I asked her to link a story. She linked a story about a man in Mississippi who had a stroke after getting the J&J vaccine and his family are blaming the vaccine. The man, btw, has not died. I looked up more stories because the one she linked was thin on details, and of course the guy had an ischemic stroke, not a CVST stroke. I pointed out to her than almost 800,000 people have strokes in the US, the ones being discussed are very rare types of strokes.

800,000 is more than 2,000 a day, a number higher than I expected, I thought it was about 650,000. I’m not surprised some people have strokes after getting vaccinated, if 2 to 3 M people a day are getting vaccinated.

[Luzifer's right hand]

A number of my relatives got their shots early because other people did not show up.

Usually I consider vaccine hesitancy a bad thing but in this case..

[Fez]

Well, the Commonwealth of Virginia just did a great job at freaking out both me and my cat. They just used the cellphone public warning system, which I've heard maybe 5 times in the past 10 years, to let me know that everyone age 16+ is now eligible for the vaccine.

I appreciate them getting the word out, and I'm sure I would even more if I hadn't already gotten my first dose. But maybe using the blaring alert that usually means there's a chance my life is in imminent danger isn't the best way? Actually, it probably is, just startled me is all.

[JGP]

7 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

No.

[laughs]

[Zorral]

12 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

I thought it sounded too high to be true??

And today, again, the WaPo has an article captioned, "the CDC says half of US adults have received at least one dose." WTF?  Again the NYT does not agree, and the link to the CDC site doesn't agree either in the numbers.

 

[Filippa Eilhart]

4 minutes ago, Zorral said:

And today, again, the WaPo has an article captioned, "the CDC says half of US adults have received at least one dose." WTF?  Again the NYT does not agree, and the link to the CDC site doesn't agree either in the numbers.

 

Altherion addressed this on the previous page. 39% of all population = 50% of adult population.

[BigFatCoward]

Got my first vaccine this coming Friday morning. But I'm working 1400-2200 operationally that afternoon, so hopefully no side effects or it could be a shit shift.

Only 4 deaths in the UK today, so that's good news.

 

[Zorral]

56 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Got my first vaccine Friday morning. But I'm working 1400-2200 operationally, so hopefully no side effects or it could be a shit afternoon. 

Only 4 deaths in the UK today, so that's good news. 

Excellent on your first injection.  It seems if you got it Friday, and still no reaction, you aren't going to have one.  Which is usual for the first injection, it seems -- but that's only judging from what I hear and read, not a scientific, data driven report.

Also great to hear your country's death rate fell that low.  I wish the same for us.  For everybody, everywhere, truthfully.  Nothing else makes sense.

[BigFatCoward]

14 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Excellent on your first injection.  It seems if you got it Friday, and still no reaction, you aren't going to have one.  Which is usual for the first injection, it seems -- but that's only judging from what I hear and read, not a scientific, data driven report.

Also great to hear your country's death rate fell that low.  I wish the same for us.  For everybody, everywhere, truthfully.  Nothing else makes sense.

Shocking English on my part. First jab this coming Friday morning, then that afternoon I'm working a shift operationally. 

[Martell Spy]

Quote

 

Got my first vaccine this coming Friday morning. But I'm working 1400-2200 operationally that afternoon, so hopefully no side effects or it could be a shit shift.

Only 4 deaths in the UK today, so that's good news.

 

Just got my first one on Saturday, the Moderna one. No side effects at all. Only thing was it was kind of painful on Sunday on the arm, like a really bad bruise. I took non-aspirin a couple times. It's much better today, just like a small bruise and barely noticable.