Jump to content

Covid-19 #30: Vaccines and All That JJAZ


Fragile Bird

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

edit: unfortunately, the nurse told me today that the flow of people has really slowed already at the vaccination site.  That’s a concern.

Wasn't it also expected though around this time if we were ahead of pace? Adults who want the vaccine have either already gotten it or are registered and in a queue. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's bad in India. Looking at the graphs and 2020 covid history, it seems that the country had been lucky to be cut off from the main path of the spread and got hit by a late 1st wave in June instead of April, (Europe being probably the biggest source of infection), and things might have been way worse in spring 2020, had there been more direct paths of infection from Wuhan.

Alas, this also puts to rest all the talk about many parts of India being close to herd immunity. I just wonder if such ponderings and studies were done by scientists who knew they were bullshitting but were basically paid by the government to say so, or if they genuinely were way too optimistic or misinterpreted some limited and partial results. But then, we've seen the same pattern in Brazil - Manaus was supposed to be at herd immunity level before it got badly mauled by an even bigger wave of death and suffering.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems to be more that the government sent people back to their villages all over India from their jobs in the cities, while religious gatherings of thousands and thousands and thousands went on and the government did NOTHING AT ALL IN THOSE MONTHS TO PREPARE.  So no medications, no beds, no nuthin'.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I strongly suspect the official numbers in Brazil and India are low. Bolsonaro isn't going to spend resources in the slums and favelas to get people tested or even accurately count the deaths. India similarly has millions that "don't contribute much to the economy."

In local news, I got my first AstraZeneca dose last week. I felt like shit for a day or two but no other symptoms. That's the good news. The bad news is that I learned I'm the victim of identity theft and was an involuntary conduit for Covid Relief fraud. $7k last year; $1.8k this year. This is kind of a big deal as Covid benefits are taxable here, though I had no wage income last year and my investment income was modest, so the $7k wasn't enough to alter my return.  

Someone applied for Covid relief in my name. They had the cheques mailed to my address, which is why no alerts were generated. Coincidentally, there were a number of mail box break-ins at my apartment building last year and the cheques were stolen. With so many people here being unemployed or doing shift work, people often don't check their mail every day; me included. I had no idea.

This March, I got four, $450 cheques from the Canadian gov't in the mail. I didn't think anything of it. "Maybe they're doing a general aid package like the US is doing", I thought. I deposited the cheques. Coincidentally, the last mailbox break-in was 2 days before that. This was after the new security doors were installed. They think someone let them in. I thought it was fortunate that it happened before the cheques came but I never connected the two events.

I found out through my accountant. When I sent him my 2020 tax documents, I made a point of telling him that I had not applied for, nor received any Covid benefits last year. He contacted me on the weekend to tell me my Canada Revenue Agency records say different. The first thing we did was get my CRA direct deposit sorted out so I don't get cheques in the mail anymore. 

I spent Monday morning on the phone with a Canada Revenue Agency representative getting this sorted out. He said I could keep the $1.8k I deposited if it turned out I qualified to receive it. I told him to just assume that i didn't and he walked me through refunding it. That's done. As for the $7K for 2020, those cheques were cashed at a brick-and-mortar bank and that dates/times will be known. It will be a simple thing to recover the cheques. Maybe there are fingerprints or security camera video. I'm satisfied there are things happening on that front.

Fuck, I hope I get to go to court. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Padraig said:

Does that mean that one is being infected with an actual live virus?  An adenovirus is a cold virus.  So you are being given a cold?  Or am I misinterpreting that?

I don't know. There is little information available, bar for a slide from the Brazilian regulation body. I guess they placed vaccine samples in cultures and tested what happened. If this is indeed true,  it's a very serious problem, even if it doesn't lead to any harm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I strongly suspect the official numbers in Brazil and India are low. Bolsonaro isn't going to spend resources in the slums and favelas to get people tested or even accurately count the deaths. India similarly has millions that "don't contribute much to the economy."

This mostly fall within the responsibility of the states. Some have taken the things quite seriously, often at odds with the central government. It doesn't mean that coverage is even and certainly there is under counting of cases and deaths.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

The second is related to the Sputnik vaccine. Brazil has rejected it, citing lack of information, transparency and concerns about its safety. The WTF part is they found that the viral vectors in the second dose (a different vector than the first one) can reproduce. Yes, you are reading correctly. Somehow, those Ad5 virus were able to replicate. when they shouldn't! This problem was found in all samples examined.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/brazil-health-regulator-rejects-russia-s-sputnik-vaccine-1.5403539

There are few technical technical details at the moment. In my layman understanding of the things the part of the adenovirus genes that makes them able to reproduce is deleted and the code for the SARS-CoV-2 spike is inserted instead. If the adenovirus were able to replicate in the lab, they should have also ruined the cell cultures where they were grown. WTF!

I'm not yet that concerned about the story that the adenovirus from the Sputnik vaccine can replicate.  If other countries reported the same issue, I'd be a lot more concerned.  

Replication deficient adenovirus are made by deleting a critical gene that is require for virus replication.  To grow the virus for production, you have to culture the virus in a cell line that provides for the missing virus gene.  It turns out that one of the cell lines that can be used to grow the standard replication deficient adenovirus is the 293 cell line, which is widely used.  Not sure what deletion the Sputnik vaccine uses in Ad5, and whether a different deletion is used in the Ad26 first dose. 

If the Brazilians tested the Ad5 virus in a cell line that provides for the missing deleted gene, it will grow.  There's not enough details yet on how the testing was done in the reporting I've read to determine whether this was the case.

Another possibility would be contamination.  If there was a contamination issue though, I'd expect other countries to also have contaminated vaccine.  

So I'm at the waiting for more information stage still on this.  I'm not yet concerned that this is a fundamental problem with the vaccine design.  That seems extremely unlikely to me.  I'm assuming that their approach is very similar to the approach used in the AZ and J&J vaccines.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a New York Times article about the next EU Pfizer/Biontech deal which I found quite interesting .

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/28/world/europe/european-union-pfizer-von-der-leyen-coronavirus-vaccine.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepaget

I especially liked this passage:

T"he agreement with Pfizer and BioNTech will stipulate that the shots be produced in Europe, bringing home not just the finished product, but also most of the 280 components that go into making it, Ms. von der Leyen and Mr. Bourla of Pfizer said."

We are living in a strange world , when it is so important where a vaccine is made ... but I find this very reassuring nonetheless

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

If the Brazilians tested the Ad5 virus in a cell line that provides for the missing deleted gene, it will grow.  There's not enough details yet on how the testing was done in the reporting I've read to determine whether this was the case.

This is the most likely explanation of what is happening. Yes, the culture might be providing the right genes to replicate as it does during the fabrication of the vaccine. Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Mudguard said:

If there was a contamination issue though, I'd expect other countries to also have contaminated vaccine.  

Slovakia did report an issue also.  But still, plenty other countries that are happily using it.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-slovakia-sputnik-idUSKBN2BV2GP

2 hours ago, JoannaL said:

There is a New York Times article about the next EU Pfizer/Biontech deal which I found quite interesting .

Indeed.  Interesting.

Anyone want to guess when Curevac are going to announce their vaccine results?  It should be before the end of May but hopefully sooner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Wasn't it also expected though around this time if we were ahead of pace? Adults who want the vaccine have either already gotten it or are registered and in a queue. 

The number of people coming through the vaccine center daily (not the rate of new sign-ups) has already slowed a lot.  That looks too early CT.  I was lucky to get my first shot only a week after eligibility opened up to all adults.  So I should be at the vanguard of a large wave of 18-45yr olds.  By the time I got my second Pfizer shot, there should still have been a lot of people getting their second shots of Pfizer and Moderna (so it should be at least as busy as my first visit), plus other people arriving to get first Pfizer/Moderna shot instead of J&J.  But the rate of people had already slowed a lot for more than a week prior to my second shot (according to the nurse).

Maybe some people aren’t sticking to the timetable for their second shot, or just not getting a second shot.  Or perhaps some J&J cancellations are wary of making an alternative appointment yet.  But it’s not a good sign that the flow of people has already dropped so much at a facility that wasn’t using J&J.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Iskaral Pust said:

The number of people coming through the vaccine center daily (not the rate of new sign-ups) has already slowed a lot.  That looks too early CT.  I was lucky to get my first shot only a week after eligibility opened up to all adults.  So I should be at the vanguard of a large wave of 18-45yr olds.  By the time I got my second Pfizer shot, there should still have been a lot of people getting their second shots of Pfizer and Moderna (so it should be at least as busy as my first visit), plus other people arriving to get first Pfizer/Moderna shot instead of J&J.  But the rate of people had already slowed a lot for more than a week prior to my second shot (according to the nurse).

Maybe some people aren’t sticking to the timetable for their second shot, or just not getting a second shot.  Or perhaps some J&J cancellations are wary of making an alternative appointment yet.  But it’s not a good sign that the flow of people has already dropped so much at a facility that wasn’t using J&J.

I do think the J&J pause did cause an increase in wariness, but that would probably only affect people who were already skeptical. IIRC there was a projected slowdown in vaccinations for May, but that was from a few months back and we're ahead of schedule with the overall vaccination process, so perhaps it's just happening sooner than expected. 

Frankly though I think society needs to implement some rather punitive measures to get the stragglers' asses in gear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

I do think the J&J pause did cause an increase in wariness, but that would probably only affect people who were already skeptical. IIRC there was a projected slowdown in vaccinations for May, but that was from a few months back and we're ahead of schedule with the overall vaccination process, so perhaps it's just happening sooner than expected. 

Frankly though I think society needs to implement some rather punitive measures to get the stragglers' asses in gear.

We have had a slowdown at the mass vacc site, where we were set to double capacity, right before the J&J pause.  Meanwhile, a lot of the rural counties are returning their allotment of vaccine to the health authority because there isn’t any more demand in their population  - not sure if it’s hesitancy caused by political leanings/media, or low priority for people who haven’t had to bear the brunt of misery that the cities have.  But it’s disheartening.

I’d heard until the vaccine comes out of emergency use authorization, there’s no true punitive measures that can be taken in the US, i.e., making it a condition of employment...this is why healthcare workers still aren’t at a 100% vaccinated rate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Is the Curevac vaccine an mRNA vaccine?

Yes, but it is said that it is easily transportable (not like Moderna which should not be shaken) and can be kept in an normal freezer (not like Biontech). It also is said to be cheaper. the only problem with this absolut unicorn of all mRNA vaccines is that we have still not seen any phase III data.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Arizona has opened up all the vaccination centers for walk-in shots, as the demand for appointments on-line has slowed down.

Two thoughts:

First, we need to get the vaccines out to the Rez.  The Navajo Nation, Hopi Nation, Apache Land, all of those eastern areas need to get some sort of replica of the Bookmobile, but for vaccinations.  And then also possibly door-to-door outreach in the seriously remote areas.

Second, the dip$hits who openly brag about not getting the vaccine and not planning on getting the vaccine are going to be the vector for some new strain of the virus.  A couple I know who spent the last month in the Caribbean are now proudly spouting about how they don't need to get a shot or wear masks.  Argh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my experience, many of the persuadable stragglers are ones troubled by the perception that the mRNA vaccines were fast tracked to approval within 8 months, and they are concerned about the side effects not being fully investigated. I dont know how to address best, but at present we have nearly 135 million points of experimental data, and while long term effects are not fleshed out, I also see no reason why this vaccine would have any.

I would tout the safety aspects a little bit more of the Pfizer and Moderna. Corporations can also offer discounts for being fully vaccinated (like Krispy Kreme).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

I’m more in the carrot rather than the stick camp.  There need to be significant incentives to obtaining a vaccination, whether monetary or otherwise.

On that note, west Virginia is offering money to.people to get the vaccine. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...