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Covid-19 #30: Vaccines and All That JJAZ

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Padraig said:

Fair point.  My worry is that Europe was already providing vaccines to the US before this issue.  I don't think J&J will meet its US targets without further help.  So what does J&J do?  What can it do?

Anyhow, it has been cleared in the US.  The blood disorders that have happened are much more biased towards women (14 out of 15), compared to AZ.

Scientific American has an article about the issue.

This is also a pdf from the EMA.  Its a very detailed analysis of the risks around Astrazeneca.  I'm wondering are they a little annoyed at how cautious the individual countries have been?  There is nothing explicit in the document but they originally said it was fine, and then they said "it's still fine" and now they are saying "no really, it is fine.  Look at the numbers".  Might be a good sign for J&J, since the probabilities are even better around it..

Canada’s National Advisory Committee on Immunization (NACI) has just recommended that the age for the AZ vaccine be dropped to 30 now. They say the benefits of being vaccinated outweigh the risks.

We’ve now seen 4 cases of the serious blood clots, the most recent case being a man in his 60s who’s been treated and is at home. I heard about the first case in Alberta, I had not heard about cases 2 and 3. We’ve administered 1.1 M single doses in Canada, that’s 1 in 275,000.

eta: wow, 15 cases with J&J, a rate of 11.8 per million for women between 30 and 39. Remember I suggested it be given to men?

Edited by Fragile Bird

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Bwa ha ha. Did I manipulate someone into getting the vaccine who otherwise wouldn’t have? Yes I did!
 

We’re getting our first shots of Moderna tomorrow morning at 10:00. 
 

That’s right. I’m evil and filthy. Peer pressuring people into getting vaccinated. 

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I have a sore throat now, the onset of which was last night (but I could feel it get scratchy Wednesday night). The second Moderna jab was early Tuesday afternoon, so I am going to put this down to weather rather than either Covid or vaccine related immune response. No other symptoms at all.

 

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Got 2nd Pfizer this morning. My arm was sore almost immediately, unlike the first shot where it didn’t really feel sore until the middle of the night... but it is already not sore at all anymore.

2nd Pfizer dose took my mom out a couple months ago. She said the onset of symptoms was about 24hrs from the stick so we will see what tomorrow brings. My gut feeling on this is that I’m going to be completely fine, but I’ll let y’all know if I’m wrong. 

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For some time I’ve been wondering if the reactions to the 2nd shots of Pfizer and Moderna some people in the US are experiencing relates to the fact the second shot is being received so soon. Most of us in Canada will receive the second shot two to three months later. Everyone in Ontario is getting appointments 112 days out, four months, but with more Pfizer getting delivered I expect that will drop to three months or even two. They’ve already announced three months in PEI. It will be interesting to see if there are fewer people affected by the second shot.

I saw a NYT article the other day that said numerous large-scale vaccination sites across the US are shutting down because of a drop in demand, smaller sites can handle the load. Back in December, if you remember, lots of experts were expecting a sharp drop after 100 M people get vaccinated. The latest number I see is 89 M are fully vaccinated, about 135 M have received at least one dose. And looking at the CDC website today, there is a quite a drop in the 7-day moving average, from a high of 3,216,249 on Apr. 11 to yesterday’s 2,672,874.
 

It will be interesting to see if the pattern is duplicated in Canada.

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Got my second pfizer today with the usual sore arm. I'm beat, but I'm pretty sure it's from getting up at 5:30 to watch the European Gymnastics Championships. We'll see what tomorrow brings, but I know I'll be up even earlier for the second day of event finals, confounding any side effect observations.

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2 hours ago, QuietColours said:

Got my second pfizer today with the usual sore arm. I'm beat, but I'm pretty sure it's from getting up at 5:30 to watch the European Gymnastics Championships. We'll see what tomorrow brings, but I know I'll be up even earlier for the second day of event finals, confounding any side effect observations.

Yea I am both sore and tired but I have an infant and did a pretty strenuous workout yesterday. I will say though, as of about 30 minutes ago my body is beginning to send me some of the standard ‘oh crap I’m getting sick’ signals. Muscle soreness is worse than it was earlier and getting stiffness in my neck, knees, and ankles which always happens to me when I get sick. I also have that fuzzy/ floaty feeling that comes on when you are in the early stages of the flu or something. Feeling slightly chilled too. No fever or anything yet, but can definitely tell that something is going down.

Since I know I’m not really getting sick it’s kind of fascinating! May be singing a different tune if symptoms progress any further :lol:

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48 minutes ago, S John said:

Since I know I’m not really getting sick it’s kind of fascinating! May be singing a different tune if symptoms progress any further :lol:

That's kinda how I felt about it too.

 

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1 hour ago, S John said:

Since I know I’m not really getting sick it’s kind of fascinating!

This is where I'm at right now.  I got my second Pfizer shot yesterday morning.  10 hours later I could feel the lymph node in my neck.  This morning I woke up and I could also feel one in my underarm - both on the side I got the vaccine.  I know the vaccine can cause them to swell and I know its a good sign.  I've been looking up diagrams of the body and where lymph nodes are and its fascinating to know this is what is going on.  I can still feel them and its been over 24 hours.  It's just a bit uncomfortable.  From what I read it might be a few weeks before the swelling goes down.

I also had a 100 degree fever for about 6 hours today but that has gone away.

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Well... we reopened patios yesterday and the city was FULL. Like a festival. I can’t wait to see the consequences.... no, I really could, but I’m afraid we will still see them. 

Mum had arm ache after the first Pfizer shot but she says it’s better now. She hasn’t really mentioned anything else. 

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9 hours ago, S John said:

Since I know I’m not really getting sick it’s kind of fascinating! May be singing a different tune if symptoms progress any further

It really is!

Most annoying so far has been the periods when I couldn't straighten my arm much past 90 degrees, but that seems to be improving now that I've been up and (kind of) moving for a couple hours. Overall 'mild flu' would be the best description and I expect I'll spend most of the day on the couch, but if this is the worst I'm really not complaining.

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Feeling better now other than being tired. I think I could continue to nap off and on for the rest of the day, but the baby is not going to stand for that :lol:. I would estimate that I was sick for 8-12 hours with aches, chills, and low grade fever beginning about 12 hrs after the shot. I had more of a reaction than I was expecting to have to it, but it wasn’t too terrible.

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Posted (edited)

We drove over to Glendale's Gila River Arena so my daughter and I could get our second shot this morning.  Once again, the process itself was incredibly efficient, although this time we had to get out of our cars and join a procession through the arena and back out.

This is so easy that I am once again trying to convince my Canadian mother-in-law to get down here and stay with us to get her shots.  On the one hand, it has been a bit annoying to read about all the New Yorkers / New Jersey / Chicagoland residents who have been making trips to the valley to get vaccinated.  On the other hand, the number of actual Arizona residents getting their shots is slowing down, so it is not like there is any shortage of available vaccinations here at this point.

Interesting aspects of the morning include the fact that the Coyotes (the NHL team whose home arena this is) were not practicing this morning when we went through, so it was just empty ice for us to gaze at while we waited out our 15 minutes after the shot.  Also there were two party busses full of Jewish people in their black outfits with NY/NJ accents who rolled up after we started the process.  They had very loud conversations at one of the identification and appointment confirmation checkpoints, but they got through, so the out-of-state contingents are apparently still coming to get their shots.  Finally the arena exit provided 15%-off coupons to all participants, good for the shopping complex that surrounds the arena, so Lululemon et al are making good use of the traffic coming over here to the west side of the valley.

So kudos once again to Arizona for a smooth, easy process to get vaccinated.  It took much longer to drive over there than to actually jump through the hoops and get the jab.

Edited by Wilbur
Coupons to Lululemon!

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I see the US is going to send vaccine ingredients to India. Countries around the world  have complained that the US was hoarding ingredients, causing manufacturing problems. But I still don’t understand why the US isn’t sending it’s AZ warehouse hoard to India as well.

People here have also been asking when the US is going to send us (and Mexico) some more AZ vaccine. Biden said yesterday or the day before that he wants to make sure any vaccine being sent is “safe”. I wondered before if the vaccine that was sent to us was “safe”, did it come from the Emergent plant? Some stories say no doses have been released from that plant  but if the US had 30 M doses in a warehouse, where did those doses come from, other than the Emergent plant?

I also see that 8% of Americans have not gone back for their second shots.

 

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Nothing we do is good enough for you Birdie. :crying:

In the latest twist, the EU does have to thank the US for some AZ vaccine.  So thanks US! :)

Quote

"The most important quantity" of drug substance came from the American plant, owned by Catalent, before being put into vials in Italy in a process known as "fill and finish," the documents said, detailing inspections in January and early February of three AstraZeneca plants in Belgium, Italy and the Netherlands that produced vaccines for the EU.

The documents don't specify how much drug substance actually came from the U.S. — one EU official said it was more than half of what formed the EU's Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine supply at the time. They also don't state how many more shipments have arrived from the U.S. since early February.

https://www.politico.eu/article/astrazeneca-vaccine-shortfall-production-woes-documents/

The secrecy around these supplies are like a spy novel!

That probably explains why the EU didn't seem to mind J&J doses been sent to the US (where fill and finish happened), since the US had sent AZ doses to the EU (for fill, finish and distribution).  Who knows who sent more to whom!

53 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I wondered before if the vaccine that was sent to us was “safe”, did it come from the Emergent plant? Some stories say no doses have been released from that plant  but if the US had 30 M doses in a warehouse, where did those doses come from, other than the Emergent plant?

Presumably the Catalent plant mentioned above.   Rather than Emergent.

The EU has also very recently approved an AZ factory in South Korea.  That is why there should be an increase in supply over the next few weeks to Europe.

While cases in South America and India are dire, North America and Europe have started to improve again.   So hopefully that will make it much easier to focus on the struggling places.

Edited by Padraig

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7 minutes ago, Padraig said:

In the latest twist, the EU does have to thank the US for some AZ vaccine.  So thanks US! :)

https://www.politico.eu/article/astrazeneca-vaccine-shortfall-production-woes-documents/

The secrecy around these supplies are like a spy novel!

That probably explains why the EU didn't seem to mind J&J doses been sent to the US (where fill and finish happened), since the US had sent AZ doses to the EU (for fill, finish and distribution).  Who knows who sent more to whom!

Presumably the Catalent plant mentioned above.   Rather than Emergent.

The EU has also very recently approved an AZ factory in South Korea.  That is why there should be an increase in supply over the next few weeks to Europe.

I have repeatedly asked where the AZ vaccine is manufactured in the US, other than at Emergent. As far as I can tell from articles, Catalent does fill and finish in Europe for AZ, but I don’t get a clear picture of what they do in the US other than fill and finish. The articles I’ve seen talk about it as a leader in gene therapy, and that it does fill and finish, and there are articles about Catalent manufacturing “drug substances” for AZ, but the articles don’t actually say “Catalent manufactures the Covid-19 vaccine for AZ”. Have you found an article that says that? Because I’ll be damned if I know what “we manufacture drug substances for AZ” means.

Canada has received, or was supposed to receive, at least 300,000 doses of the AZ vaccine from South Korea, as part of the COVAX shipment. Right now it appears we won’t receive any more until late June, so I guess we’re being skipped over for the EU.

Your link won’t open on my phone, I’ll try again when I get home.

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That line  I quoted above... "The most important quantity" of drug substance came from the American plant, owned by Catalent, before being put into vials in Italy in a process known as "fill and finish".

That seems quite clear that Catalent manufactures the COVID-19 vaccine in the US.  It was "filled and finished" in Italy.

There was always a US factory mentioned in the EU contract.

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