Val has Dragon blood (theory)

[Targaryeninkingslanding]

So put on your tin foil hats because this one may be reaching a bit

Val is incredibly beautiful. she has long blond hair and pale-blue eyes, a boastfully beautiful face and body of pale skin. These are just physical characteristics that any person could have. But she seems important in the future and we don't really know why yet.

Now what does that have to due with Dragon blood? well we know there is one dragon in the north still, old bloodraven, Brynden Rivers, the three eyed crow. and while she is mentioned little in asoiaf, he had a lover of indeterminate fate, his beautiful half sister Shiera Seastar (Who had one green eye and one dark blue eye - like Tyrion- mini theory). she had one blue eye, light blond hair, was called the most beautiful women in Westeros.

If Shiera, who was purportedly a sorceress, followed bloodraven up north, she could have had a child with him. A line of beautiful light blond haired Targaryens.

This would also make Aemon Steelsong aptly named, ironically.

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

There is one think to be able to keep looking youthful and another to be able to have children after a certain age. Shiera would have to be almost 100 years old for Val to be hers. The same applies for Shiera being her grandmother. There is a possibility that Val has highborn ancestors most likely Crowfood’s daughter. I don’t see the need of Valyrian blood in Val for her role in the future.

[Lady_Qohor]

Interesting theory, of course Shiera wouldn't have to be the mother/grandmother etc. She may have been the love of Bloodraven's life but that doesn't mean he was celibate for all those years alone at the Wall. He could have easily been with some random wildling woman. 

[Lord Varys]

Never thought about that ... but Bloodraven might very well have been randy enough to produce some dragon seeds while he was ranging beyond the Wall. He could be Val's grandfather or great-grandfather.

[Egged]

Her attitude makes me think she was among highborn people during her life. It's too weird otherwise that she acts so highborn-like, why would she? Why her?

[Jaenara Belarys]

Great, so Jon and Val are cousins (If R+L=J is true)? 

5 minutes ago, Egged said:

Her attitude makes me think she was among highborn people during her life. It's too weird otherwise that she acts so highborn-like, why would she? Why her?

Might just be her attitude.

 

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Never thought about that ... but Bloodraven might very well have been randy enough to produce some dragon seeds while he was ranging beyond the Wall. He could be Val's grandfather or great-grandfather.

Maybe, but if he was Val's grandpa or great-grandpa wouldn't the Valyrian looks be diluted? 

[Jay21]

It would lend some irony to Jon's repeated insistence that Val isn't a princess. Certainly present another opportunity for someone to remind him he knows nothing. 

 

[Lord Varys]

4 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Great, so Jon and Val are cousins (If R+L=J is true)? 

Might just be her attitude.

 

Maybe, but if he was Val's grandpa or great-grandpa wouldn't the Valyrian looks be diluted? 

Val doesn't have prominent Valyrian looks. She has either blue or grey eyes, I think, and honey-colored hair. That could mean Valyrian heritage, or not. And it is not that the Valyrian beauty thing quickly goes away. The Velaryons never practiced sibling incest, apparently, at least not since the Conquest, yet they still are famed for their beauty 300 years later.

[Daeron the Daring]

On 4/16/2021 at 7:02 PM, Lord Varys said:

Never thought about that ... but Bloodraven might very well have been randy enough to produce some dragon seeds while he was ranging beyond the Wall. He could be Val's grandfather or great-grandfather.

He was almost 60 when he joined the NW. Now I'm not saying someone at the age of 60 can't father children (usually MOSTLY not, but in ASOIAF yes), but he became a Lord Commander in his early days up there. That means he wasn't really ranging that much (if he ever did) altough at the age of 74 he did dissapear while ranging. That might have brrn an exceptional case, because he likely knew where he has to go or something.

[Lord Varys]

6 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

He was almost 60 when he joined the NW. Now I'm not saying someone at the age of 60 can't father children (usually MOSTLY not, but in ASOIAF yes), but he became a Lord Commander in his early days up there. That means he wasn't really ranging that much (if he ever did) altough at the age of 74 he did dissapear while ranging. That might have brrn an exceptional case, because he likely knew where he has to go or something.

He could also have fucked his ass off at Mole's Town ... and his offspring there could have left beyond the Wall for this or that reason.

But, hey, randy Aemon was actually just in his thirties when he took the black. And when he still had working eyes he could also have ranged beyond the Wall and have his fair share of wildling women.

You don't have to look for Bloodraven if you want to look for dragon seeds at the Wall.

Not that I think there are any there ... but if Jon's seed had quickened in Ygritte and she had lived he would have also have produced a little wildling dragon.

[Hippocras]

On 4/15/2021 at 10:23 PM, Targaryeninkingslanding said:

So put on your tin foil hats because this one may be reaching a bit

Val is incredibly beautiful. she has long blond hair and pale-blue eyes, a boastfully beautiful face and body of pale skin. These are just physical characteristics that any person could have. But she seems important in the future and we don't really know why yet.

Now what does that have to due with Dragon blood? well we know there is one dragon in the north still, old bloodraven, Brynden Rivers, the three eyed crow. and while she is mentioned little in asoiaf, he had a lover of indeterminate fate, his beautiful half sister Shiera Seastar (Who had one green eye and one dark blue eye - like Tyrion- mini theory). she had one blue eye, light blond hair, was called the most beautiful women in Westeros.

If Shiera, who was purportedly a sorceress, followed bloodraven up north, she could have had a child with him. A line of beautiful light blond haired Targaryens.

This would also make Aemon Steelsong aptly named, ironically.

Interesting although I do tend to cringe at pretty much any theory that involves Shiera Seastar. For someone whose ENTIRE presence in the whole of ASOIAF is one single line of Bloodraven's where he did not even say her name she is the root of WAY too many tinfoil theories. If she were going to be a significant factor in this story she would have come up a bit more than that.

But as others pointed out, the basic theory here does not really require Shiera Seastar. Aside from Bloodraven's possible trysts, any number of Targaryens and Targ bastards might have ended up at the wall or with offspring at the Wall or beyond. I therefore see it as entirely plausible.

[Jaenara Belarys]

On 4/16/2021 at 2:38 PM, Lord Varys said:

Val doesn't have prominent Valyrian looks. She has either blue or grey eyes, I think, and honey-colored hair. 

Valyrians don't have just blue eyes. People like Good Queen Alysanne and Prince Rhaegar had blue eyes ( Alysanne's eyes are just blue, Rhaegar's are indigo which is apparently a dark blue). 

On 4/15/2021 at 1:23 PM, Targaryeninkingslanding said:

If Shiera, who was purportedly a sorceress, followed bloodraven up north, she could have had a child with him. A line of beautiful light blond haired Targaryens.

 

Great she kept her beauty. But that don't do nothing to tell us how he got pregnant past her years.

 

[Frey family reunion]

Didn't Mance first meet Val and Dalla south of the Wall?  On his way back from Winterfell?  Which kind of made me think that Val and her sister might be from one of the Mountain clans.  

ETA:  Hmm, now I’m not too sure of where Mance would have run into Dalla (and by extension I suppose, her sister Val)

Quote

“You will have heard stories of my desertion, I have no doubt.”

“Some say it was for a crown. Some say for a woman. Others that you had the wildling blood.”

“The wildling blood is the blood of the First Men, the same blood that flows in the veins of the Starks. As to a crown, do you see one?”

“I see a woman.” He glanced at Dalla.

Mance took her by the hand and pulled her close. “My lady is blameless. I met her on my return from your father’s castle. The Halfhand was carved of old oak, but I am made of flesh, and I have a great fondness for the charms of women which makes me no different from three-quarters of the Watch. There are men still wearing black who have had ten times as many women as this poor king. You must guess again, Jon Snow.”

I guess it doesn’t really establish that he met her south of the Wall.  I assume that he’s speaking of his most recent trip to Winterfell, when he went to view King Robert, since his implication is that he had already deserted when he met Dalla.

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Valyrians don't have just blue eyes. People like Good Queen Alysanne and Prince Rhaegar had blue eyes ( Alysanne's eyes are just blue, Rhaegar's are indigo which is apparently a dark blue). 

Yes, they do have purplish or blue eyes ... but not so much grey eyes. But then - Aurane Waters is a Valyrian-looking Velaryon bastard with green eyes, so that goes as well.

And the crucial aspect of the Valyrian look is not just the special hair and eyes but also great physical beauty, and Val definitely delivers on that front.

42 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

Didn't Mance first meet Val and Dalla south of the Wall?  On his way back from Winterfell?  Which kind of made me think that Val and her sister might be from one of the Mountain clans.  

ETA:  Hmm, now I’m not too sure of where Mance would have run into Dalla (and by extension I suppose, her sister Val)

I guess it doesn’t really establish that he met her south of the Wall.  I assume that he’s speaking of his most recent trip to Winterfell, when he went to view King Robert, since his implication is that he had already deserted when he met Dalla.

Dalla is definitely one of the free folk Mance would have fallen in on his way back from Winterfell, possibly at a place where he rested on his way back to where he lived at the time. If he wasn't already raising his armies and travelling around.

[Frey family reunion]

14 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Yes, they do have purplish or blue eyes ... but not so much grey eyes. But then - Aurane Waters is a Valyrian-looking Velaryon bastard with green eyes, so that goes as well.

And the crucial aspect of the Valyrian look is not just the special hair and eyes but also great physical beauty, and Val definitely delivers on that front.

Dalla is definitely one of the free folk Mance would have fallen in on his way back from Winterfell, possibly at a place where he rested on his way back to where he lived at the time. If he wasn't already raising his armies and travelling around.

Assuming that he was returning from Winterfell's hosting of Robert, then we can assume he was already well into his attempt to raise his army, since he was squarly on Ned's radar at that time.

[Lord Varys]

13 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

Assuming that he was returning from Winterfell's hosting of Robert, then we can assume he was already well into his attempt to raise his army, since he was squarly on Ned's radar at that time.

Yeah, but that's because he was King-beyond-the-Wall for a couple of years already. It might be that his visit to Winterfell was the deciding factor to invade ... after all, he would have seen the pitiful sot 'King Robert' as well as learned that Eddard Stark would join the fat drunkard king in the south. Meaning the North would be comparatively weak, with a woman and a boy lord in charge.

[Frey family reunion]

4 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Yeah, but that's because he was King-beyond-the-Wall for a couple of years already. It might be that his visit to Winterfell was the deciding factor to invade ... after all, he would have seen the pitiful sot 'King Robert' as well as learned that Eddard Stark would join the fat drunkard king in the south. Meaning the North would be comparatively weak, with a woman and a boy lord in charge.

I always assumed that the deciding factor was the White Walkers ...

But your motivation would imply an interesting scenario, that the threat beyond the Wall might not be what it seems.

[Lord Varys]

1 minute ago, Frey family reunion said:

I always assumed that the deciding factor was the White Walkers ...

But your motivation would imply an interesting scenario, that the threat beyond the Wall might not be what it seems.

Oh, the Others were the deciding factor, but we don't know when exactly Mance decided that it wasn't worth to continue the fight. And even after he decided they would invade the Seven Kingdoms he would have decided when exactly to start. And the relative weakness of the North/the Iron Throne in general certainly would have figured into that ... since Mance was there to see the elite of the Realm at Winterfell.

[Springwatch]

On 4/15/2021 at 9:23 PM, Targaryeninkingslanding said:

Val is incredibly beautiful

She's beautiful, but probably not incredibly so. We get her description from Jon, who's half in love with her (and he thought Ygritte was beautiful, but conventionally speaking, she wasn't). The queen's men want her, but they're more interested in her child-bearing hips, and the lands and leadership that might go to her husband.

[Jaenara Belarys]

24 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

The queen's men want her, but they're more interested in her child-bearing hips, and the lands and leadership that might go to her husband.

True, but the looks don't hurt. Axell Florent, that idiot Ser Patrek (Though all the queen's men seem to be idiots of some sort).... all of them comment on her looks. And I honestly can't blame them for that.

 

31 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

I always assumed that the deciding factor was the White Walkers ...

 

That's what I thought too. Because I interpreted them as heading into the Frostfangs either right before or slightly after the beginning of the WoT5K.