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US Politics: Stamping out Chauvinism


Fragile Bird

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4 hours ago, Ser Reptitious said:

Aren't juries sequestered throughout the trial? If so, how could it be argued that her actions played a part in their verdict? 

Also, for the love of God (or whatever), can we just savior a moment of victory for humanity before we get all pessimistic (and turning the guns on each other) again? Like, one day, for example? Sheesh! 

I think you meant "savor". :)

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2 hours ago, karaddin said:

It's not full blown riots yet, but cops have already gone and killed another kid in the couple of hours after the verdict. 15 year old girl calls them for help and they shoot her. Columbus PD.

ETA: Exactly what happened still seems a bit jumbled, but an actual report with the early accounts is

https://www.thedailybeast.com/columbus-police-fatally-shoot-a-person-as-derek-chauvin-guilty-verdict-comes-down?ref=scroll

So Columbus PD has done press conference on this already, recording here (the bodycam footage they play starts at 6 minutes and 40 seconds; and WARNING the shooting is shown):

 

 

Less than 10 seconds after the police arrive, someone is charging someone else with a knife in hand. I don't know enough about tasers to say whether that would've been more appropriate, but from the footage it certainly appears that the police had literal seconds to act to stop an attempted murder from occurring.

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12 minutes ago, Fez said:

So Columbus PD has done press conference on this already, recording here (the bodycam footage they play starts at 6 minutes and 40 seconds; and WARNING the shooting is shown):

 

 

Less than 10 seconds after the police arrive, someone is charging someone else with a knife in hand. I don't know enough about tasers to say whether that would've been more appropriate, but from the footage it certainly appears that the police had literal seconds to act to stop an attempted murder from occurring.

I think use of force here was proportional to what what was going on

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Just now, Chataya de Fleury said:

I have absolutely no comment on that video, but “attempted murder” was something my neighbor’s fiancée wasn’t charged with when she went after Neighbor (my ex boyfriend) with a 10 inch steak knife. Dude had his salivary glands severed. 

In fact, they got married two months after. 

Not speaking on police actions, here, just the overly dramatic statement (IMO) “had literal seconds to stop an attempted murder”.

From the officer’s perspective it very well may be, even if the intent from the girl was merely to hurt the person she was attempting to stab or cut that could still lead to that person dying.

The story you’ve just described seems horrific example of domestic abuse with a man staying with his abuser

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8 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

I have absolutely no comment on that video, but “attempted murder” was something my neighbor’s fiancée wasn’t charged with when she went after Neighbor (my ex boyfriend) with a 10 inch steak knife. Dude had his salivary glands severed. 

In fact, they got married two months after. 

Not speaking on police actions, here, just the overly dramatic statement (IMO) “had literal seconds to stop an attempted murder”.

The victim was trying to stab someone else with a knife when she was shot. Without knowing all the facts in the lead up to the moment, it's impossible to know what, if anything, she might've been charged with if the police had been able to arrest her instead. However, considering the facts as the police knew them when the shooting occurred, I think its reasonable for them to think that an attempted murder was occurring.

ETA: And to be clear, that's my language choice. All the police have said is that the incident is under investigation.

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Is the death penalty typically the punishment for attempted murder? Even 1st degree murder?

Disarm police. Everything looks like a nail to a hammer. Use of firearms should be rare among public safety officers.

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1 hour ago, Week said:

Disarm police. Everything looks like a nail to a hammer. Use of firearms should be rare among public safety officers.

It's impossible to disarm the police when there are more guns than people in our country.

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1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

It's impossible to disarm the police when there are more guns than people in our country.

Impossible? Very unlikely, sure, but not unpossible, Ralphie. I would like to see a HUGE reduction in firearms available to police, seizure of all former military and quasi-military gear and vehicles, etc.

This response also ignores the point - violence by the state (even if some people agree it is justified) should be terrifying and only used in the rarest of instances with the appropriate accountability and transparency afterwards. It should be STRESSFUL for police after they have killed someone - maybe they'll learn to deescalate and kill fewer people.

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2 hours ago, Week said:

Is the death penalty typically the punishment for attempted murder? Even 1st degree murder?

Disarm police. Everything looks like a nail to a hammer. Use of firearms should be rare among public safety officers.

Wait are referring to the girl attempting to stab someone?

The shooting here wasn’t merely punishment. It served to potentially another human being’s life.
The use of deadly force was justified.

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1 minute ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Wait are referring to the girl attempting to stab someone?

The shooting here wasn’t merely punishment. It served to potentially another human being’s life.
The use of deadly force was justified.

No it was not. It should not be. It is a moral failure to consider this killing justified. What would a cop do if unarmed or if their gun failed? I'm sure they could manage to avoid killing a 16 year old girl in that instance - which demands the question, why did she deserve to die then? It was easier to just shoot her dead?

After the officer murdered the 16yo girl - a man immediately yells at the officer, "You didn't have to shoot her! She's just a kid, man!" https://apnews.com/article/columbus-ohio-police-shooting-teenage-girl-0c04a74691f3f3fb3895d6220c729080

I will never call the police for any domestic disturbance for the same reason I don't own a gun - I'm more likely to die after inviting that danger into my home.

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15 minutes ago, Week said:

No it was not. It should not be. It is a moral failure to consider this killing justified. What would a cop do if unarmed or if their gun failed? I'm sure they could manage to avoid killing a 16 year old girl in that instance - which demands the question, why did she deserve to die then? It was easier to just shoot her dead?

After the officer murdered the 16yo girl - a man immediately yells at the officer, "You didn't have to shoot her! She's just a kid, man!" https://apnews.com/article/columbus-ohio-police-shooting-teenage-girl-0c04a74691f3f3fb3895d6220c729080

I will never call the police for any domestic disturbance for the same reason I don't own a gun - I'm more likely to die after inviting that danger into my home.

In the moment, it seems like the only alternative would've been to try to tackle the girl in black instead. However, based on the distance the officers were from her, it seems likely that the girl in pink would've gotten stabbed at least once. Probably not fatally, but you can't rule it out. And then there's a chance that the tackling officer gets injured by a wild knife swing before subduing the girl in black. 

With the benefit of hindsight it's easier to play out alternate options; but, considering how quickly events played, it's hard for me at least to say that the officer's action wasn't justified.

Now if there were other officers on scene already, and they weren't de-escalating the situation, they should face some sort of sanction. However, the shooting officer appears to have arrived only seconds before.

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9 minutes ago, Week said:

No it was not. It should not be. It is a moral failure to consider this killing justified. What would a cop do if unarmed or if their gun failed? I'm sure they could manage to avoid killing a 16 year old girl in that instance -

Try to stop her with a significant greater risk of seeing himself or the person who that girl was lunging at with a knife seriously wounded or even killed.

11 minutes ago, Week said:

After the officer murdered the 16yo girl - a man immediately yells at the officer, "You didn't have to shoot her! She's just a kid, man!"

Who was actively attacking someone with a knife.

 

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9 minutes ago, Fez said:

In the moment, it seems like the only alternative would've been to try to tackle the girl in black instead. However, based on the distance the officers were from her, it seems likely that the girl in pink would've gotten stabbed at least once. Probably not fatally, but you can't rule it out. And then there's a chance that the tackling officer gets injured by a wild knife swing before subduing the girl in black. 

With the benefit of hindsight it's easier to play out alternate options; but, considering how quickly events played, it's hard for me at least to say that the officer's action wasn't justified.

Now if there were other officers on scene already, and they weren't de-escalating the situation, they should face some sort of sanction. However, the shooting officer appears to have arrived only seconds before.

Roll up, fire 5 shots into a black kid, declare Blue Lives Matter in the face of the neighborhood. Policing by the book.

https://www.rawstory.com/amp/cops-chant-blue-lives-matter-after-shooting-teen-2652666461?__twitter_impression=true

We desperately need to reexamine our expectation of policing and police if this is an example of a justified killing and good outcome. Jesus Christ. Police killed a kid. We're so numb to it that it seems ok. It is not.

The litany of armed, white mass murderers that have been arrested without harm speaks volumes. 

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1 minute ago, Week said:

Roll up, fire 5 shots into a black kid, declare Blue Lives Matter in the face of the neighborhood. Policing by the book.

https://www.rawstory.com/amp/cops-chant-blue-lives-matter-after-shooting-teen-2652666461?__twitter_impression=true

We desperately need to reexamine our expectation of policing and police if this is an example of a justified killing and good outcome. Jesus Christ. Police killed a kid. We're so numb to it that it seems ok. It is not.

Who was attacking someone with a knife.

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