Jump to content
Fragile Bird

US Politics: Stamping out Chauvinism

Recommended Posts

13 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Hey, if you want to be that way I have to point out that the mistake I was correcting had nothing to do with grammar. It was either a simple spelling mistake or a word choice error, neither of which are grammatical problems.  :)

English isn't my native language (although it has over time become something close to it, due to constant use), so I was under the impression that it was spelled that way. I appreciate the correction, though, because it's always good to learn correct spelling. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Ormond said:

And there is a big difference in my opinion between someone threatening a police officer in such a way and someone threatening a civilian who is physically close to them in such a way.

I agree. Like I said, the cops didn't seem that concerned about Kyle Rittenhouse and his damn AR-15 when he was shooting multiple people. They protected him like a mama pig protecting her piglet.

12 minutes ago, Ormond said:

We pay the police to deal with being in danger, but we also pay them to protect other people who are being threatened. What would people be saying today if the girl with the knife had managed to kill or seriously injure the person she was attacking while the police officer stood by? I do think the police should be quicker to use force when a civilian's life is in danger than when just the lives of police officers are. 

Then it's a pretty shitty thing for those cops to start taunting the crowd with "Blue Lives Matter" chants.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Fez said:

I'm not defending all police, they fuck up all too often. And way too many of them are rabid MAGAs, which presents additional problems.

But that doesn't mean they fuck up 100% of the time. And just because they often don't shoot Whites even when it would be justified that doesn't mean that when they do shoot POCs its never justified. From my perspective, this time it seems justified.

Also, if you want to dig into the data, since 2015 in the US there have been 2,885 Whites killed by police, compared to 1,499 African Americans and 1,052 Hispanics. Which, because of population size differences, means African Americans are being killed at a rate more than double that of Whites, and Hispanics at a rate nearly double Whites; there's absolutely a huge problem there. But it does show that Whites do get killed too, it's not like they're immune.

Data from: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/

 

The demographics demonstrate the disproportionate violence visited upon people of color.  It’s presence doesn’t mean any and all use of force inappropriate.

What was going on that this girl was swinging a knife?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that there are two problems here that are slightly different than the actual shooting. 

The first is that police were called to a domestic disturbance. There is very rarely a need for police to go to these sorts of things and their presence almost certainly exacerbated the conflict. 

The second is that black girls are often seen as being older and more dangerous than white girls, which results in excessive force.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ormond said:

Hey, if you want to be that way I have to point out that the mistake I was correcting had nothing to do with grammar. It was either a simple spelling mistake or a word choice error, neither of which are grammatical problems.  :)

I actually bet it was autocorrect being evil. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

I dunno if folks remember but far right protestors beat a cop to death not long ago.

Not denying the blatant racial biases in policing, but if you mean Officer Sicknick, they apparently ruled that he died of a heart attack one day later.

Of course, nobody was shot while *trying* to beat him to death, so...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Ormond said:

Hey, if you want to be that way I have to point out that the mistake I was correcting had nothing to do with grammar. It was either a simple spelling mistake or a word choice error, neither of which are grammatical problems.  :)

I know, and you knew it was a joke. Nobody calls someone a spelling Nazi though. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.instagram.com/washingtonpost/

Attorney General Merrick Garland on Wednesday announced a sweeping Justice Department probe into the practices and culture of the Minneapolis Police Department, elevating the federal government’s role a day after officer Derek Chauvin was found guilty in the murder of George Floyd.

Garland said the “pattern or practice” civil investigation would be conducted separately from an ongoing federal criminal probe opened during the Trump administration over whether Floyd’s civil rights were violated during his arrest and death last May.

The new examination will go beyond Floyd’s case, Garland said, to determine whether the Minneapolis department has engaged in systemic misconduct that constituted “unconstitutional or unlawful policing.”

“Nothing can fill the void the loved ones of George Floyd have felt since his death,” Garland said during brief remarks at Justice Department headquarters. “My heart goes out to them and to all those who have experienced similar loss.”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Worth a read for the Charlie Browns trusting and believing in the police narrative and justification of killing a 15 year old girl with a kitchen knife.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Week said:

Worth a read for the Charlie Browns trusting and believing in the police narrative and justification of killing a 15 year old girl with a kitchen knife.

 

 

It's not really a fair comparison. Rittenhouse ran up to police with his gun on his back to turn himself in after it happened. Police were not there when he shot two people.

I think it's a deplorable thing that probably should be an unlawful killing, but this equivalence does no one any favors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Karlbear said:

It's not really a fair comparison. Rittenhouse ran up to police with his gun on his back to turn himself in after it happened. Police were not there when he shot two people.

I think it's a deplorable thing that probably should be an unlawful killing, but this equivalence does no one any favors.

The whole thread is worth reading. A consideration of what was lost when the cop fired five shots into the chest of a 15 year old with a kitchen knife.

Re: Rittenhouse, he was given water and thanked for his support by police earlier. A completely random white kid with a gun = ally. That's the rub where comparing the two is valid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Week said:

The whole thread is worth reading. A consideration of what was lost when the cop fired five shots into the chest of a 15 year old with a kitchen knife.

Re: Rittenhouse, he was given water and thanked for his support by police earlier. A completely random white kid with a gun = ally. That's the rub where comparing the two is valid.

Again, it's really not. Comparing the behavior of police when someone is not actively attacking someone else with their behavior when someone is just doesn't work. Rittenhouse and how he was treated is an entire different problem, but comparing the two really doesn't work on any level. 

There are plenty of other cases where a police officer successfully defused a person acting violently with weapons that you should use. Rittenhouse really isn't that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Viewing a random white kid with an AR-15 as an ally and thanking him - is a problem. Perhaps completely separate in your mind, fine.

Plenty of examples of police not murdering aggressive knife wielders on google. Other strategies and values that could lead to police killing less people*.

*Unclear whether police feel that they kill too many people. Seems like a problem in and of itself.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41314562

Quote

Even those who bang the drum loudest for a rethink over the use of deadly force acknowledge that it is still sometimes the only option, and the 300 million or so guns in America put it in a vastly different position to countries like Scotland. "Make no mistake, there are times when force is going to be immediate and required," said Lt Lutz.

 

But in places like Camden, they are trying to shift the emphasis. Officers are taught to put an "absolute value on the life of the person they encounter, regardless of what behaviour they are exhibiting at the time," said Lt Lutz.

 

"If our officers value life, and they are morally sound, and they are responding to the call and thinking through why they are there, then we believe some of the more controversial shootings that have taken place across the country, right or wrong, can be avoided."

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Week said:

Viewing a random white kid with an AR-15 as an ally and thanking him - is a problem. Perhaps completely separate in your mind, fine.

Yes, because he was not in the act of violence at the time. I don't understand why someone who is immediately attacking someone else with a knife is equivalent in behavior to someone who simply has a weapon on them but is not acting violent. Simply carrying harmful items is not and should not be treated the same as someone who is violent with or without a weapon. 

9 minutes ago, Week said:

Plenty of examples of police not murdering aggressive knife wielders on google. Other strategies and values that could lead to police killing less people*.

I 100% agree. This is more about a strategy to talking to it- it's not very strategic to compare this to Rittenhouse. Compare to the cases where police were able to subdue someone with a weapon who was acting immediately threatening. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Karlbear said:

I think that there are two problems here that are slightly different than the actual shooting. 

The first is that police were called to a domestic disturbance. There is very rarely a need for police to go to these sorts of things and their presence almost certainly exacerbated the conflict. 

The second is that black girls are often seen as being older and more dangerous than white girls, which results in excessive force.

I've watched part of the police press conference and the videos themselves. Considering the first 911 call, not sure how the police could not respond to it. And the 2nd call came when the cops had already arrived.

All I can say is the cop had very little time to act. The conflict was already exacerbated. It didn't help that there was more violence going around at the time, like the first girl that had been assaulted being kicked by a man while on the ground. Not sure that guy was even arrested in the immediate aftermath. Now the cop was close enough to the girl that he accurately shot her without hitting the girl in pink that was right next to the victim. So in hindsight, maybe a taser would have worked, but I don't have the experience or knowledge to accurately asses that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good article as a reminder that while many states are advancing voter suppression efforts, Dems are even more aggressive (and so far successful in the aggregate) in codifying more expansive voting rights legislation:

Quote

By the end of March, nine bills with expansive voting provisions had been signed into law in the U.S. during state legislative sessions, and at least 112 bills were still moving in 31 states, according to an analysis from the Brennan Center for Justice, which is tracking the issue.

While the odds of passage vary considerably depending on political climate, there are far more expansive voting bills pending in legislatures than restrictive ones: Lawmakers have introduced 843 bills with expansive provisions in 47 states, compared with 361 bills with restrictive provisions in the same number of states.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Karlbear said:

The first is that police were called to a domestic disturbance. There is very rarely a need for police to go to these sorts of things and their presence almost certainly exacerbated the conflict. 

The first 911 call has Bryant say multiple girls were trying her and her grandmother.

A police here when a situation has escalated to that extent is reasonable.

3 hours ago, Week said:

A consideration of what was lost when the cop fired five shots into the chest of a 15 year old with a kitchen knife.

A 15 year old attempting to stab someone with said knife. I see no relevancy except to try frame the knife as somehow not a dangerous thing to use on another human being.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Ormond said:

What armed White mass murderers have been arrested without harm when they were actively using their weapon to attack someone else? If you have examples of that, please tell me about them. 

How about a white man who trapped a cop's arm in his truck window, drove off at high speed, and then attacked the cop with his own hammer? In Minnesota too.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/15/us/minnesota-oeltjenbruns-arrest-hammer-mask-dispute/index.html

Edited by DanteGabriel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...