Jump to content
Black Crow

Heresy 235 The Winter Snow

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, divica said:

And some kind of obsidian armors kind of come to mind. After all obsidian should be pretty sturdy.

Obsidian is glass and shatters at the slightest excuse - which is why the Aztecs and their rivals had to just use chips of it.

[Mind you it makes me laugh when the term "stone age" is synonymous with primitive savagery.]

Edited by Black Crow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Black Crow said:

Obsidian is glass and shatters at the slightest excuse - which is why the Aztecs and their rivals had to just use chips of it.

Ice swords should also be pretty fragile but that isn't the case.

And they can always add some forme of magic to the obsidian. I don't even know what process should be used to mold obsidian into an armor.

My thoughts are based on it being one of the few materials that should be able to resist a sword atack from the others. It is black. It could be less cold than steel when facing the others and thefore be a better equipment for winter fights. And the NW is supposed to receive a shipment of obsidian pretty soon.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found the quote with Stannis' snowmen army:

Quote

But it snowed again the next day, and the day after, and the day after that. The thick beards of the wolves were soon caked with ice where their breath had frozen, and every clean-shaved southron boy was letting his whiskers grow out to keep his face warm. Before long the ground ahead of the column was blanketed in white, concealing stones and twisted roots and deadfalls, turning every step into an adventure. The wind picked up as well, driving the snow before it. The king's host became a column of snowmen, staggering through knee-high drifts.

On the third day of snow, the king's host began to come apart. Whilst the southron knights and lordlings struggled, the men of the northern hills fared better. Their garrons were sure-footed beasts that ate less than palfreys, and much less than the big destriers, and the men who rode them were at home in the snow. Many of the wolves donned curious footwear. Bear-paws, they called them, queer elongated things made with bent wood and leather strips. Lashed onto the bottoms of their boots, the things somehow allowed them to walk on top of the snow without breaking through the crust and sinking down to their thighs.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

A few more quotes about snowmen (GRRM likes to tease us):

Quote

Huddled in their hooded cloaks, the guards outside were almost indistinguishable from the snowmen. Only their breath fogging the air gave proof that they still lived

Quote

He might have taken the guards for a pair of Little Walder's snowmen if he had not seen the white plumes of their breath

Remove the breath and the guards are snowmen :-)

Then the snowmen become monstrous giants:

Quote

The snowmen the squires had built had grown into monstrous giants, ten feet tall and hideously misshapen

 

Edited by Tucu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, divica said:

Ice swords should also be pretty fragile but that isn't the case.

And they can always add some forme of magic to the obsidian. I don't even know what process should be used to mold obsidian into an armor.

My thoughts are based on it being one of the few materials that should be able to resist a sword atack from the others. It is black. It could be less cold than steel when facing the others and thefore be a better equipment for winter fights. And the NW is supposed to receive a shipment of obsidian pretty soon.

 

Not convinced. GRRM has made a point of stressing what Craster's boys can do with Ice, while at the same time emphasising how easily obsidian breaks. The cache found by Jon and the. ancient references to gifts/tribute coming from the three-fingered lot relate to small pieces of obsidian - arrowheads and daggers/spearheads. Its a huge stretch from friable flakes of glass to battle-armour using a supposed magic unsupported by anything in the books.

I'm a firm believer in keeping things simple. Jon's dream involves armour made of ice and I still hold that if it is a significant dream its that Ice which is important, especially in the light of the way thoughts are moving anent his possible fate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Black Crow said:

I'm a firm believer in keeping things simple. Jon's dream involves armour made of ice and I still hold that if it is a significant dream its that Ice which is important, especially in the light of the way thoughts are moving anent his possible fate.

You think an armor made of black ice is something simple? That black ice isn't fragile?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, divica said:

You think an armor made of black ice is something simple? That black ice isn't fragile?

I'm thinking its not just the armour which is ice :commie:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Black Crow said:

I'm thinking its not just the armour which is ice :commie:

but the quote is

Quote

 Jon was armored in black ice

It isn't something like coldhands whose hands are black, we are talking about something black and cold that covers a big part of jon's body.

You can either go the boring route with it refering to his NW clothes being frozen or something related to obsidian that is refered as frozen fire, is black and should be usefull to resist attacks from the others and don't become too cold like steel.

Anything else is super crackpot...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, divica said:

but the quote is

It isn't something like coldhands whose hands are black, we are talking about something black and cold that covers a big part of jon's body.

You can either go the boring route with it refering to his NW clothes being frozen or something related to obsidian that is refered as frozen fire, is black and should be usefull to resist attacks from the others and don't become too cold like steel.

Anything else is super crackpot...

Does obsidian armor come with a breastplate stretcher?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, divica said:

but the quote is

It isn't something like coldhands whose hands are black, we are talking about something black and cold that covers a big part of jon's body.

You can either go the boring route with it refering to his NW clothes being frozen or something related to obsidian that is refered as frozen fire, is black and should be usefull to resist attacks from the others and don't become too cold like steel.

Anything else is super crackpot...

There is significance as to how Jon is dressed, but with limited information its unclear what this actually means. We can speculate, of course. The white walkers are armored in ice. They are impervious to steel, but not to obsidian. So if you're armored in "black" ice...would that make you impervious to, not only obsidian, but to a sword made of ice? Could Jon's armor actually be made of obsidian? It is referred to as frozen fire, sooo...

Edited by Melifeather

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I wish Pretty Pig was still around. It would be interesting to go over her research on the black armor with recycling of comic book storylines that GRRM has drawn from for ASOIAF.

Recall that Rhaegar famously wore a suit of black armor with the Targaryen sigil in rubies on the breastplate. He wore it during the tourney at Harrenhal and during the battle at the Trident. Many questions surround the wearing of this armor. Was it really Rhaegar wearing it? Was it a glamor? Did Rhaegar die at the Trident or was someone else wearing the suit? What happened to the armor? Did anyone take it as a souvenir? Supposedly the rubies went into the Trident. The septons on the Quiet Isle claim to have found six of them and are looking for a seventh. 

In the Marvel world there are at least two characters that wear special magical black armor: the Destroyer, and the Black Knight. Well, actually the Destroyer isn't a person. Its actually just the enchanted armor itself that is the character.

Link to essay

From Pretty Pig's essay, with respect and apologies for sharing without asking:

Quote

Without going into a bunch of complex comic plot, let’s suffice it to say that over the years, the Destroyer armor was subject to various attempts at possession/manipulation by Loki (Asgardian trickster god, for those living under a rock) to use against his half-brother Thor.   Loki would find the armor and con someone into imbuing it with their soul or whatever, and then try to set the Destroyer loose on Thor.   In a couple of instances Thor himself transferred his consciousness into the Destroyer in order to wrench it away from its host or do battle with it in some weird way, I can’t really follow the exact intent and mechanism of it.   Takeaway here is that the armor is magic, is associated with a magical race of people, and is used primarily in an ongoing grudge match between two sworn rivals.

First Really Interesting Thing here is the list of powers associated with The Destroyer. I think you’ll see where I’m going with this.

“The Destroyer armor possesses numerous superhuman capabilities but only if the armor is inhabited by the spirit of a sentient being. While some of the powers might vary, depending upon the spirit inhabiting the armor, they are primarily the same for any.”
 

  • Superhuman Strength: vast immeasurable power of unknown limit.
  • Superhuman Durability: invulnerable to most all forms of physical damage (except that inflicted by more powerful cosmic entities) such as bullets, pressure, falls, temperature, and (my favorite) “tremendously powerful impact forces.”
  • Superhuman Speed
  • Superhuman Stamina: it is not subject to physical fatigue.
  • Superhuman Agility and Reflexes: Natural agility, balance, and bodily coordination are enhanced to levels that are far beyond natural physical limits; the armor's reflexes are similarly heightened and are far superior to those possessed by the finest human athlete.



So, I imagine that if someone were wearing this special armor in, say, a tournament, it’s not a big stretch to imagine that “no lance could touch him.”    :coffee  

Also, the armor is also capable of manipulating the molecular structure of most materials and matter itself for a variety of purposes, including transmutation – probably a useful skill when you have a giant pointed stick or a warhammer coming toward you.


Now, despite this armor being a juggernaut of battle and destruction, it has downsides – namely that the base kill-kill-kill personality of the armor can eventually take over the mind of the host if they wear it too long. “After a time, it becomes nearly impossible for an inhabiting spirit to maintain control over the armor while attempting to use it for non-violent purposes in non-combat situations. In time, the armor itself will dominate the inhabiting life force. “

In other words, you can warg the armor, but there are consequences for staying. Unless you are a being of serious magical mojo, and probably an Asgardian, because guys like Odin, Thor, and Loki are the only ones who can control the damn thing.

"The Destroyer is not a suit of armor that can be physically worn or disassembled. A life force must be projected into the armor in order to animate it which leaves the possessor’s body in a catatonic state. The Destroyer is linked to the body of the individual inside which is why the person does not die due to lack of life force, but if the person’s essence is put back inside its body by a powerful spell directed at the person, the Destroyer will become inanimate once again. By the same token, if the person’s body is killed, the life force will leave the Destroyer and revert it back to its lifeless state. Normally, a person has to be close to the Destroyer and a willing participant to have their life essence transferred into it, but a person’s essence can also be transferred if that person is not mentally guarded for such a transfer. Odin or Loki, however, can make the transferals over great distances due to their proficiency with magic."

The second Really Interesting Thing is what happens to the suit when it’s not being warged by someone trying to destroy Thor: it gets hidden. Usually by Odin, who doesn’t want it falling into the wrong hands.

Odin squirrels it away in the underground Temple of Darkness for a time, until Loki finds it and animates it the first time. After it is recovered it goes back into the Temple, which Odin then collapses, seemingly burying the Destroyer in the rubble. Wash, rinse, repeat in another encounter – this time Loki gets his trickster hands on it and uses it in another plot with some other folks.** He is foiled in the end and Odin takes the armor into custody again.

**This plot covers Thor Vol 1 145-153, and has some majorly, majorly pertinent elements in it – I will get to this momentarily in Part 2. It ties in with the armor and I think you’ll dig it.

For interest and visual association, here are some images of the Destroyer armor, modern and vintage – despite what you may remember from the movie Thor a few years back, it takes on a few distinctive changes when actually worn by Thor.

detail-225x300.jpglatest?cb=20120109001402latest?cb=20120731000958images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSh_gWeZCbbgLYQ1tD4_wxf4b5fe21f5dc68dc78f4c6b502bc2130.jpg


Surely you're seeing my point here.    If not, note the imagery of the black plate, the winged helm, the scarlet cloak, flames limming the helm, etc. Not hard to see the similarities here, right?

I’d also like to point out that in the pics of Thor wearing the black armor, he’s holding Mjolnir – his hammer made of the magical metal Uru described upthread.   Allow me to toss your thought process over to another description:

 

Jon was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist.
 

Black armor, red blade. Jon carries a blade made out of the magical metal Valyrian steel.   Just sayin.’

Brief aside: For clarity, re: the winged helm - I used that more as an example of shape....from artist depiction and text description, it's not very clear what Rhaegar's helm actually looked like.   A couple of renderings show it as a helm with dragon wings and a single head, others have it as three heads sprouting from the top, etc.   I think it's fair to say that it had some ornament that gave it the appearance of being "winged", if it wasn't outright winged.

Hos4oNFh.jpegmain-qimg-8649be19ed353a220d2ed529b2ad7458.jpg

tl;dr: the helm may not have been winged like Thor's, but it was probably similar in structure/appearance to Thor's while he was animating the armor.



Now, to return to Rhaegar’s black dragon armor.

This suit is attributed only to Rhaegar – it’s not said to be a hand-me-down from other Targaryen royalty. Obviously this was custom work – but by who? Tobho Mott doesn’t lay claim to this particular suit when boasting to Ned of his fine work:
 


The Knight of Flowers bought all his armor here, Tobho boasted, and many high lords, the ones who knew fine steel, and even Lord Renly, the king's own brother. Perhaps the Hand had seen Lord Renly's new armor, the green plate with the golden antlers? AGOT 27
 

However, given that Rhaegar supposedly kidnapped Ned’s sister, I can see how that would be a touchy mention, so OK. But let’s look again at Mott’s place of business:
 

The man they wanted was all the way at the top of the hill, in a huge house of timber and plaster whose upper stories loomed over the narrow street. The double doors showed a hunting scene carved in ebony and weirwood. A pair of stone knights stood sentry at the entrance, armored in fanciful suits of polished red steel that transformed them into griffin and unicorn.
 

Black and white doors. Stone knights in the armor of mythical creatures - chimeras, to boot.   Part one creature, part another.    And of course Tobho Mott is known not only for his beautiful armor, but his ability to work Valyrian Steel.  Coincidence?  

So if Tobho Mott, a Qohorik master armorer who knows the secrets and spells for working Valyrian Steel, fashioned this black dragon armor for Rhaegar, did he enchant it in some way? Or, is this armor actually much older, and given to him by someone else?

What happened to the armor after Rhaegar died? It was so fine and distinctive, I can’t imagine it being ignored or destroyed. Was it destroyed with his body, or……in the spirit of the Destroyer armor, was it reclaimed and hidden?

There’s been much hoo-rah about what secret lies in the Stark crypts – wedding cloaks, harps, wills, long-form birth certificates, etc. But, could the crypts – an underground Temple of Darkness – house a different sort of secret?

Crazy, yes….but no more crazy than the idea that Rhaegar isn’t really dead, which I’ll get to next.    :fallout 

Edited by Melifeather

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, divica said:

but the quote is

It isn't something like coldhands whose hands are black, we are talking about something black and cold that covers a big part of jon's body.

You can either go the boring route with it refering to his NW clothes being frozen or something related to obsidian that is refered as frozen fire, is black and should be usefull to resist attacks from the others and don't become too cold like steel.

Anything else is super crackpot...

Of course it's also possible that GRRM was sharing a run of the mill, mundane, non prophetic dream of Jon's because he wanted us to get a glimpse into Jon's subconscious.  

I mean it seems folly to assume that the "armored in black ice" isn't like the rest of the dream.  Because techinically nothing that happened in that dream actually happened in real life.  The giants weren't 40 feet tall.  The wildlings didn't scurry about the Wall like spiders.  Jon never killed Donal Noye, or Dick Follard, or technically even Ygritte.  Certainly he didn't kill her with a red flaming sword.

While Jon did have too few Night's Watch brothers with him to defend the Wall, he didn't defend it on his own.  

And he also didn't cut off Robb's head while declaring himself Lord of Winterfell.

So there is no particular reason to assume that he's going to ever be dressed in black ice or obsidan for that matter.  Or weld an actual flaming sword, that's neither glamored or gimmicked with wildfire.  

But I do think that GRRM wants us to take a peek into Jon's subconscious thoughts/fears/desires before he's "killed" by his brothers.  Because if Jon's return is anything like Cat's then it may be a dark part of Jon's subconscious that's going to become the forefront of Jon's psyche.

My guess is Jon is being torn in a few directions.  He's got his duty to the Night's Watch and their Wall of ice, which is also technically his protection.  I.e. armored in black ice may translate to his status as being in the Night's Watch.  The red sword on the other hand may represent the power that Stannis and his red sword Melisandre may represent.  Power which could helped defeat the wildlings, could help defeat the "Others" and could also be the key to giving him Winterfell and making him Lord.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Melifeather said:

I wish Pretty Pig was still around. It would be interesting to go over her research on the black armor with recycling of comic book storylines that GRRM has drawn from for ASOIAF.

Recall that Rhaegar famously wore a suit of black armor with the Targaryen sigil in rubies on the breastplate. He wore it during the tourney at Harrenhal and during the battle at the Trident. Many questions surround the wearing of this armor. Was it really Rhaegar wearing it? Was it a glamor? Did Rhaegar die at the Trident or was someone else wearing the suit? What happened to the armor? Did anyone take it as a souvenir? Supposedly the rubies went into the Trident. The septons on the Quiet Isle claim to have found six of them and are looking for a seventh. 

In the Marvel world there are at least two characters that wear special magical black armor: the Destroyer, and the Black Knight. Well, actually the Destroyer isn't a person. Its actually just the enchanted armor itself that is the character.

Link to essay

From Pretty Pig's essay, with respect and apologies for sharing without asking:

Black armor, red fiery sword. Is Jon breathing heavily, too?

"Luke, I am your father."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said:

The red sword on the other hand may represent the power that Stannis and his red sword Melisandre may represent.  Power which could helped defeat the wildlings, could help defeat the "Others" and could also be the key to giving him Winterfell and making him Lord.

I agree, especially about Winterfell, and I think the particular figures that Jon 'slays' in this section of the dream point toward a more selfish path:

Quote

The world dissolved into a red mist. Jon stabbed and slashed and cut. He hacked down Donal Noye and gutted Deaf Dick Follard. Qhorin Halfhand stumbled to his knees, trying in vain to staunch the flow of blood from his neck. "I am the Lord of Winterfell," Jon screamed. It was Robb before him now, his hair wet with melting snow. Longclaw took his head off. 


Three sworn brothers that had, in the waking world, sacrificed themselves for the Watch, representing Jon slaying the spirit of his oaths--with Robb representing a more subconscious guilt about Jon's place within his family, and whether it is 'rightful' for him to desire Winterfell.

I find it interesting also that he identified the sword he's wielding as Longclaw; since this follows so immediately upon the first section, are Longclaw and the blade burning hot in his hand one in the same?

While this might represent a decidedly unexciting interpretation of all of the myths surrounding firebrands on my part, we've already seen one person - Beric - literally wielding a burning sword, which causes me to wonder whether we're really looking for a singular figure, wielding a singular sword, or whether anyone who is a fire wight and has access to a magically durable sword - Valyrian steel, or Dawn - could perform the feats attributed to Azor Ahai.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, alienarea said:

Black armor, red fiery sword. Is Jon breathing heavily, too?

"Luke, I am your father."

So is grrm trying to imitate star wars and jon is suposed to balance the force (ice and fire)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Matthew. said:

I agree, especially about Winterfell, and I think the particular figures that Jon 'slays' in this section of the dream point toward a more selfish path:


Three sworn brothers that had, in the waking world, sacrificed themselves for the Watch, representing Jon slaying the spirit of his oaths--with Robb representing a more subconscious guilt about Jon's place within his family, and whether it is 'rightful' for him to desire Winterfell.

I find it interesting also that he identified the sword he's wielding as Longclaw; since this follows so immediately upon the first section, are Longclaw and the blade burning hot in his hand one in the same?

While this might represent a decidedly unexciting interpretation of all of the myths surrounding firebrands on my part, we've already seen one person - Beric - literally wielding a burning sword, which causes me to wonder whether we're really looking for a singular figure, wielding a singular sword, or whether anyone who is a fire wight and has access to a magically durable sword - Valyrian steel, or Dawn - could perform the feats attributed to Azor Ahai.

That dream sequence has easter eggs pointing towards Dunk&Egg's Sworn Sword and the background details it gives about the Blackfyre Rebellion. Standfast was the castle of House Osgrey and the reference to spiders seems to point to House Webber (and Rohanne Webber).

Quote

Stand fast,” Jon Snow called. “Throw them back.” He stood atop the Wall, alone. “Flame,” he cried, “feed them flame,” but there was no one to pay heed.

They are all gone. They have abandoned me.

Burning shafts hissed upward, trailing tongues of fire. Scarecrow brothers tumbled down, black cloaks ablaze. “Snow,” an eagle cried, as foemen scuttled up the ice like spiders. Jon was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist. As the dead men reached the top of the Wall he sent them down to die again.

The rest of the chapter repeats themes in the Sword Sword: blood price, rivers flowing and dams.

Edited by Tucu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Melifeather said:

I

In the Marvel world there are at least two characters that wear special magical black armor: the Destroyer, and the Black Knight. 

 

Funnily enough, my news feed tells me that a certain Kit Harington will be making his debut in the Marvel cinematic universe with Eternals, in which he'll be playing Dane Whitman aka The Black Knight

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Black Crow said:

Funnily enough, my news feed tells me that a certain Kit Harington will be making his debut in the Marvel cinematic universe with Eternals, in which he'll be playing Dane Whitman aka The Black Knight

who also has a magical sword...

the jokes will be plenty

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I realize that GRRM may have included Jon's black ice armor dream and other elements such as Rhaegar's black armor as merely an homage to Marvel and nothing more, but he also uses a three-fold revelation strategy.

Quote

...it is easier to tell when he’s overplaying a hand and revealing things too early if you don’t actually know going in what will happen. That said, now that I’ve realized his three-fold revelation strategy, I see it in play almost every time. The first, subtle hint for the really astute readers, followed later by the more blatant hint for the less attentive, followed by just spelling it out for everyone else. It’s a brilliant strategy, and highly effective.

--Anne Groell, GRRM's editor

The use of armor to deceive is one of them.

1) The subtle hint: Knight of the Laughing Tree - Was it Howland, Lyanna, someone else, or a combination?

2) The blatant hint: Garlan Tyrell wore Renly's armor to make it appear as if Renly's ghost was there to take vengeance upon Stannis. At the time that it happened, nobody knew who was inside the armor. We are told later.

3) The spell-it-out hint: Robert Strong - pretty strong evidence that necromancy was involved to resurrect Gregor Clegane.

The three-fold strategy is intended to let us know that the use of armor is an important clue to pay attention to. Another example is the detailed description of Loras's armor:

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Eddard VII

When the Knight of Flowers made his entrance, a murmur ran through the crowd, and he heard Sansa's fervent whisper, "Oh, he's so beautiful." Ser Loras Tyrell was slender as a reed, dressed in a suit of fabulous silver armor polished to a blinding sheen and filigreed with twining black vines and tiny blue forget-me-nots. The commons realized in the same instant as Ned that the blue of the flowers came from sapphires; a gasp went up from a thousand throats. Across the boy's shoulders his cloak hung heavy. It was woven of forget-me-nots, real ones, hundreds of fresh blooms sewn to a heavy woolen cape.

His courser was as slim as her rider, a beautiful grey mare, built for speed. Ser Gregor's huge stallion trumpeted as he caught her scent. The boy from Highgarden did something with his legs, and his horse pranced sideways, nimble as a dancer. Sansa clutched at his arm. "Father, don't let Ser Gregor hurt him," she said. Ned saw she was wearing the rose that Ser Loras had given her yesterday. Jory had told him about that as well.

Loras's armor had sapphires to represent tiny blue forget-me-not flowers. (Tongue in cheek nudge to remind us to pay attention to armor?) Perhaps this armor needs to be grouped with Rhaegar's ruby encrusted armor? His description as being "slender as a reed" hints at a parallel to Howland Reed. Is Loras our clue that the Knight of the Laughing Tree was Howland? And yet, his "beautiful grey mare" hints at Lyanna. My intention isn't to get into a debate about the identity of the KotLT, but rather to bring attention to the three-fold revelation clues.

Loras was using his mare-in-heat to upset Gregor's stallion. It's an underhanded deception. Perhaps his elaborately decorated armor was intended to distract the audience away from his horse? This is the type of questioning we need to apply to Rhaegar's jeweled armor. Was HE trying to distract the audience's attention somehow?

I'm tempted to group these three:

1) The subtle hint: The Knight of the Laughing Tree - the mismatched armor was intended to disguise the wearer.

2) The blatant hint: Rhaegar's ruby encrusted armor was intended as a distraction, but from what? OR was his crowning of Lyanna the deliberate distraction?

3) The spell-it-out hint: Loras was using his sapphire encrusted armor to distract people from looking too closely at his mare-in-heat.

Here's an interesting example of "armor" to group with Jon's black ice armor - the description of Little Walder's corpse when he was found:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Theon I

Snow slid from Ser Hosteen's cloaks as he stalked toward the high table, his steps ringing against the floor. A dozen Frey knights and men-at-arms entered behind him. One was a boy Theon knew—Big Walder, the little one, fox-faced and skinny as a stick. His chest and arms and cloak were spattered with blood.

The scent of it set the horses to screaming. Dogs slid out from under the tables, sniffing. Men rose from the benches. The body in Ser Hosteen's arms sparkled in the torchlight, armored in pink frost. The cold outside had frozen his blood.

"My brother Merrett's son." Hosteen Frey lowered the body to the floor before the dais. "Butchered like a hog and shoved beneath a snowbank. A boy."

What are some questions that we could apply to the icy armor of Jon and Little Walder? What is the intended conclusion? 

Edited by Melifeather

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/5/2021 at 6:04 PM, Matthew. said:

While this might represent a decidedly unexciting interpretation of all of the myths surrounding firebrands on my part, we've already seen one person - Beric - literally wielding a burning sword, which causes me to wonder whether we're really looking for a singular figure, wielding a singular sword, or whether anyone who is a fire wight and has access to a magically durable sword - Valyrian steel, or Dawn - could perform the feats attributed to Azor Ahai.

That's my thinking.  Although I'm not sure you have to be a fire wight to make a burning sword.  Beric and Thoros use their own blood to set their swords on fire.  The defining act in making Lightbringer was to plunge it into Nissa Nissa's heart.  I'm not sure if his beloved wife is a red priestess or a dragon, but to my mind, someone or something who is transformed by holy blood.  It's this act that makes LB perpetually warm to the touch according to Aemon and his source, the Jade Compendium.  While Beric and Thoros are acting out that part of the legend, there is a degree of difference. 

I do think a durable sword can be used to create a sword that is afterwards warm to the touch; but the act that creates it will be something akin to the actual forging of the sword requiring a sacrifice.  Whether or not you have to be a fire wight to use it is another question.  Something tells me that the sword transforms the man or woman, since Syrio Forell tells us that you can't separate the sword from the one who wields it.        

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...