Patchface is brain damaged

[Darth Sidious]

It’s not only from lack of oxygen. He died and was resurrected by magic.  Patchface is a wight. Call him a water wight if you wish. It doesn’t matter.  He will be easy to control. 

[Lady Winter Rose]

that's.... random...

[BalerionTheCat]

Likely. But his 'non-sense' is no less foreboding.

[Megorova]

He isn't brain damaged, he's a Faceless Man. And he wasn't on Steffon Baratheon's ship when it was sinking. Patchface was already off-board by that time. And everyone else on that ship were already dead (poisoned by FM) when it crushed against sea-rocks. Melisandre suspects that there is something unnatural about Patchface, that's why she's afraid of him.

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

3 hours ago, Megorova said:

He isn't brain damaged, he's a Faceless Man. And he wasn't on Steffon Baratheon's ship when it was sinking. Patchface was already off-board by that time. And everyone else on that ship were already dead (poisoned by FM) when it crushed against sea-rocks. Melisandre suspects that there is something unnatural about Patchface, that's why she's afraid of him.

Just for laughs who employed the FM and what exactly the one who employed them sacrificed in order to kill the all of Windproud's crew?

[Groo]

1 hour ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

Just for laughs who employed the FM and what exactly the one who employed them sacrificed in order to kill the all of Windproud's crew?

Let's add "Why is this FM still hanging around all these years?" to the list.

[divica]

1 hour ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

Just for laughs who employed the FM and what exactly the one who employed them sacrificed in order to kill the all of Windproud's crew?

how about varys employed them to prevent the crew from bringing a valiryan bride for rhaegar? However things went wrong and the FM lost his memory and has been living as patchface since then?

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

48 minutes ago, divica said:

how about varys employed them to prevent the crew from bringing a valiryan bride for rhaegar? However things went wrong and the FM lost his memory and has been living as patchface since then?

How he paid them then? Don't forget the payment should have been very severe in order for them to kill a ship full of people.

 

1 hour ago, Groo said:

Let's add "Why is this FM still hanging around all these years?" to the list.

You are right

[divica]

34 minutes ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

How he paid them then? Don't forget the payment should have been very severe in order for them to kill a ship full of people.

his blackfyre magic junk

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

12 minutes ago, divica said:

his blackfyre magic junk

How is that a payment? Don't forget the price have to be devastating.

[divica]

23 minutes ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

How is that a payment? Don't forget the price have to be devastating.

It was devastating for varys. And they can use it for magical stuf!

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

1 minute ago, divica said:

It was devastating for varys. And they can use it for magical stuf!

What magical stuff?

[divica]

1 minute ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

What magical stuff?

long distance comunication or other valyrian magic that needs valyrian junk to work

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

1 minute ago, divica said:

long distance comunication or other valyrian magic that needs valyrian junk to work

Is there an actual text reference to this or...?

[divica]

7 minutes ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

Is there an actual text reference to this or...?

No idea, but could be possible!

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

1 minute ago, divica said:

No idea, but could be possible!

To be possible needs text references with no text then its crackpot tinfoil fan fiction.

[Rondo]

Steffon goes to find and bring back a future princess.  Back he comes with a comedian.  Something's fishy.  

I like some of @Megorova theory but maybe there was a good reason to stop the ship from reaching shore.  Like people on board had greyscale.  Patchface is a hero if he sunk the ship to stop the infection from reaching land.

[James West]

Ptsd could disturb an otherwise normal mind into mush.  I submit to you that a sinking ship and a near drowning experience would break even a strong man.  Indeed PF is a real fool.  

[Megorova]

On 4/25/2021 at 10:42 PM, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

Just for laughs who employed the FM and what exactly the one who employed them sacrificed in order to kill the all of Windproud's crew?

The short answer is - no one hired him. Patchface's current mission is pro bono.

"Pro bono publico (English: "for the public good"; usually shortened to pro bono) is a Latin phrase for professional work undertaken voluntarily and without payment."

The long answer:

Years ago, before I have read The World of Ice&Fire book, based on the summary of those events in ASOIAF-Wikia, I thought that Patchface (who is a Faceless Man) was hired by Tywin Lannister.

There were several reasons for Tywin to want Steffon's death. It appeared that if Steffon's mission was successful, then Aerys would have dismissed Tywin from his post and instead of him appointed Steffon as the King's Hand. Also could be that Tywin hoped that if Steffon won't bring a bride for Rhaegar, then Aerys may reconsider his previous decision and will agree to marry Rhaegar to Cersei. Also it seems likely that even though Tywin, Steffon and Aerys used to be friends, Tywin was secretly jealous and recentful of Steffon's relationship with Aerys. They were closer because, in addition to being friends, they also were cousins. And it seems that Aerys was harboring plans not only to dismiss Tywin from his post but also to either imprison or even execute him. With Steffon gone, Aerys had to give up on those plans, because on his own he wouldn't have been able to do any of that, he was too afraid of Tywin.

So, because of all those reasons, Tywin had a motive to get rid of Steffon. And he had money to hire FM. I thought all that before reading the World book, where there was information about Braavos, Iron Bank and FM. So I had only a partial picture of what kind of organisation the House of Black and White is. I thought that they were just really good assassins for hire, and that's it. Later it turned out that my earlier assumptions about FM were incorrect.

While reading the World Book, I realised that the Faceless Men and Iron Bank are actually the same organisation. And that changes everything. Because if FM and IB are together, it also means that FM are VERY RICH, thus they aren't pressed for money and they can choose to take only those assignments to which they agree, and which are beneficial for Braavos. Furthermore, in this case it seems not just unlikely but totally impossible that Tywin Lannister could have afforded to not only order Steffon's death, but also to hire Patchface to infiltrate the household of the remaining Baratheons, to watch over them for years, and to inform Tywin about everything. If FM own IB, then, even if Tywin had an entire mountain of gold, which he doesn't, all those money still would have been not enough to pay for a services of a single FM on a 15+ years long mission. Thus, the logical conclusion is that Patchface wasn't hired by Tywin. Furthermore, he wasn't hired by anyone. Instead he was sent on that mission by his Boss - the Sealord of Braavos.

There's this principle of how things work in the world - two great powers can't peacefully coexist together in the same space without constantly fighting for dominance, until one of them will either subjugate or destroy the other (this principle is based on my observations). Though there's one exception - coexistence is possible, if those powers are parts of the same entity/union/organisation. 

Based on this principle I realised that Braavos is like an iron coin - Iron Bank is its light side, and the Faceless Men are its dark hidden side, and the Sealord of Braavos is like a coin's edge - he simultaneously divides them and keeps them together, he is the leader of both organisations, and the sole ruler of Braavos. That's why Braavos is the most stable city in Essos. Nearly everyone there are either FM, or the workers of IB, or are in some way affiliated with those organisations. Originally all citizens of Braavos were Faceless Men. Their organisation was created to oppose Valyrian dragonlords. They also founded the Iron Bank. Nowadays there are more than a thousand keyholders, and all of them are descendants of the original founders of IB and Braavos. Eventually all founders intermarried and now nearly all Braavosi are bloodrelated. Everyone there is someone's cousin. They are like mafia. Thus, to earn money is not the main purpose of why FM exist. Additionally they have another mission, and it's the same as the original purpose of their creation - to oppose dragonlords. And, to accomplish that goal, sometimes FM are given a life-long assignments. And Patchface was sent on a mission like that.

My suspicions concerning the oneness of IB and FM were confirmed in Fire&Blood, in a scene when Septon Barth was sent to Braavos to demand from the Sealord to return dragon eggs that were stolen by Elissa Farman. The ease with which the Sealord reduced the Iron Throne's debts to the Iron Bank and his abbility to dispatch FM at his will, are evidence that he governs over both of those organisations, and that both of those organisations are actually working in tandem.

While reading thru that chapter, I also made another HUGE DISCOVERY - the Kingsguard Gyles Morrigen was a Faceless Man, in a sense that the real Gyles was killed and then replaced by FM, who took his face and his post as a guardian of the Targaryen family. And he wasn't the only one, nor the first. While reading thru the next several chapters I realised that the Faceless Men orchestrated the murder of Rego Draz, to prevent him from getting into their way ever again. Because it was Rego Draz who made Targaryens to realise that all those deaths that occured at Dragonstone in 54 AC were caused by poison, not by some mysterious epidemic. All those people were poisoned by Androw Farman, Elissa's brother. It wasn't Elissa who approached the Sealord of Braavos with the proposal to buy from her three dragon eggs. It was the Sealord's people who approached Elissa, when she was still at the Targaryen court, and offered her a deal - she will steal for them dragon eggs and they will pay her. As a part of that deal FM also provided Elissa's brother with the tears of Lys, which he then used to poison his wife's ladies-in-waiting. FM were hoping that Androw will poison his wife, Rhaena Targaryen. She was a dragonrider, and she was a woman, so she could have given birth to more dragonriders. Which was not good for FM.

Back to Rego Draz - the FM killed him, and also thru his death one of them was able to infiltrate the kitchens of the Red Keep, and poisoned the bread that then was served to Princess Daenerys, who then died a day later supposedly from Shivers. Then FM kept killing other Targaryens. Out of Jaehaerys' and Alysanne's 13 children the Faceless Men didn't killed only Vaegon (who was a maester and thus was not a dragonrider, nor would have ever produced more potential dragonriders by fathering children), Saera (because FM themselves used her as a breeder to produce three dragonseeds, who were supposed to hatch those three dragon eggs that Elissa Farman brought to the Sealord), and Gael (unless a mysterious singer who seduced, impregnated and then drove Gael to suicide, also was one of the FM. In which case FM killed 11 out of 13). Though, Jaehaerys' children were not the first nor the last Targaryens that were killed by the Faceless Men, who were wearing faces of the Kingsguards.

It seems that as far back as since Aegon's Conquest, in nearly every set of the Kingsguards there was at least one Faceless Man, or in some cases more than one. For the past 300 years they were vigorously pruning Targaryen family tree, and killed nearly a hundred or maybe even more than a hundred Targaryens and their relatives. They were artificially reducing number of active or potential dragonriders, and also killing those people that could have produced more dragonriders/dragonseeds. They were killing mothers, fathers, little babies in the cradles, and yougsters. All that just to keep a leash on Targaryen dragons.

They were nearly inactive only in the span of those 50 years, when the Targaryen court was under the control of the witches and shadowbinders (134-184 AC). Though it seems that those women had paid a fortune (with the Rogare gold) to FM to stay away from Targaryens for those 50 years. Though the Sealord (a different one) made another attempt to hatch three dragon eggs owned by Braavosi. He introduced Aegon IV to his granddaughter, Bellegere Otherys, who then became Aegon's mistress, and in the span of their 10 years long relatioship gave birth to three of Aegon's bastards. And the current Sealord, the one who is Arya's kindly man, and the one who appointed Syrio Forel as the First Sword of Braavos, and the one who several years ago gave his dragon eggs as a gift to mummer-dwarfs (Penny, Oppo and Hop-Bean, who then gave them to their pal, Illyrio Mopatis), this guy is a direct descendant of Aegon the Unworhy, and a dragonseed. So we have here a peculiar situation, that have never happened before - the leader of the Faceless Men is a dragonseed.

The Faceless Men caused the Doom of Valyria. Not with magic, more likely thru science. Many of them were miners, they knew all sorts of things about geology, characteristics of the land on which they worked, the nature of volcanoes, etc. There were 14 active volcanoes at Valyrian peninsula, so it was geologically unstable region. Blow up a lot gunpowder in a few volcanoes and it will start a chain reaction, because all of them are connected underground. And from where did they took gunpowder? - Originally they were using it for mining. And then they decided to use it to get rid of all dragonlords, all at once, when they will gather at Valyria with all their dragons, that came home for a nesting season. BOOM. And the world if free of dragons.

So it's only logical that afterwards the Faceless Men kept a tight watch over the last remaining dragonlords in existence - Targaryens. And not only watched, but also frequently killed them. To eventually make them go extict together with their dragons.

That's why they burned Summerhall. To prevent Targaryens from bringing dragons back. And that's why they killed Illyrio's wife Serra. Because they thought, same as Varys and Golden Company, that Serra is the Kingmaker. In a sense that her child will be the Prince that was Promised and that thru him the dragons will return. Because that's what the prophecy said. To get to Serra, FM had sent to Pentos a trading galley full of rats infected with the grey plague. Two thousands people, who also got infected and died in the span of the resulting plague, were collateral damage. Faceless Men are this kind of people - they are willing to kill 2000 innocents just to get to the one person who is able to bring the dragons back into the world. They are mass murderers and baby-killers.

Patchface was sent to kill Steffon and his wife, and everyone else on that ship (more collateral damage for the sake of the greater good). Because Steffon was a dragonseed himself, and because he was going to bring to Aerys news that at Volantis there are many suitable women amongst whom Rhaegar can choose his bride. Though Targaryens never found out about that, and instead Rhaegar married with the only option that was available at the 7K - Elia Martell, a woman with poor health, who nearly died after giving birth to only two (dragonseed) babies.

Though Patchface's mission wasn't limited to getting rid of Steffon and preventing him from enlightening Targaryens. Additionally he infiltrated Baratheon-household and kept watch over them. The only reason why a guy with Renly's looks and popularity has lived as long as he did, is solely because he was gay, and thus wasn't interested in producing children (dragonseeds). I bet that Patchface is the reason why Shireen got infected with the Greyscale, and why Stannis and his wife didn't had more children. With the liberty that Patchface had in their castle, it wasn't difficult for him to occasionally put something iffy in their food or drinks, something that made Selyse infertile and extinguished Stannis' libido. And FM never targeted Robert because at first he was warded at The Eyrie, out of Patchface's reach, and then after the Rebellion, he became an avid hater of the Targaryens and everything dragon-related. If he ever got his hands on a dragon egg, even though he was also a dragonseed himself, instead of trying to hatch it, he would have rather destroyed it. Thus, he was not a threat for FM.

I'm wondering how many times Patchface tried and failed to poison Melisandre. And I'm curious how will she kill him, eventually.

[Jaenara Belarys]

On 4/25/2021 at 2:50 PM, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

How he paid them then? Don't forget the payment should have been very severe in order for them to kill a ship full of people.

 

It would've been extremely severe:

"Do you have any idea how costly they are?" Littlefinger complained. "You could hire an army of common sellswords for half the price, and that's for a merchant. I don't dare think what they might ask for a princess."

AGOT, Eddard VIII

On 4/25/2021 at 2:02 PM, divica said:

how about varys employed them to prevent the crew from bringing a valiryan bride for rhaegar? However things went wrong and the FM lost his memory and has been living as patchface since then?

There be one big problem with that: They didn't find a proper Valyrian bride. 

27 minutes ago, Megorova said:

I bet that Patchface is the reason why Shireen got infected with the Greyscale, and why Stannis and his wife didn't had more children

Greyscale can't be spread through potions and poisons, it's a touch and you're infected disease.

27 minutes ago, Megorova said:

o it was geologically unstable region. Blow up a lot gunpowder in a few volcanoes and it will start a chain reaction, because all of them are connected underground. And from where did they took gunpowder? - Originally they were using it for mining

Gunpowder hasn't been invented in this world yet. Say rather that they killed enough of the mages that "controlled and banked the fires of the Fourteen Flames" that the spells failed.