US Politics: Biden Hood - Prince of Plebs

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

51 minutes ago, Week said:

Elise Stefanik has sold her soul, like Rubio and others, to the Cult of Trump. Meanwhile, Liz Cheney is on the outs for "not looking forward" because the GQP has to look forward to electoral wins on the basis of their losing record in the past. I really hope the Democrats don't fritter this away - it would be so unjust if these chucklefucks actually make their way back into elected office.

It's maddening how Republicans can just openly say that "Yeah, we're fucking everyone over for our own politician gain" and their party not only accepts in but embraces it, and those in the middle just both sides this shit while Democrats loudly scream "This is not how we're supposed to be governing."

[Fury Resurrected]

I really like how nobody has acknowledged any of the impacts the pipelines have on reservations and indigenous people. We are very much supposed to care about the impacts to certain people but not THOSE people.

[polishgenius]

6 hours ago, Zorral said:

It's all there. What's so hard to understand about the relationships among these attitudes and the people who hold them and institute them via laws?

 

It's not hard to understand, it's just that you linked them together with a series of bizarre segues. Like the first piece you linked doesn't connect at all with the second one. There's nothing economic about the first one - it's just a clickbaity article about one set of people tired of one circumstance moaning about another set of people overwhelmed by another, neither of whom are employers, lawmakers, or intrinsically Trump voters or anything like that (perhaps you didn't read it?), so your reading it and declaring your contempt for something the article just wans't about was weird.

And the restauranteur is a moaning git, but very carefuly didn't blame the workers for not coming back in the article (perhaps you didn't read it?), and in any case while he is in Florida this is happening all over so linking that phenomenon to Southern racism was... weird.

[DireWolfSpirit]

4 hours ago, Fury Resurrected said:

I really like how nobody has acknowledged any of the impacts the pipelines have on reservations and indigenous people. We are very much supposed to care about the impacts to certain people but not THOSE people.

The harm to the Standing Rock lands, the pollution to the Kalamazoo river, the threat to our Mackinac Straits and the pollution of Flints drinking water are all on my mind.

We also have a threat here in my neck of the woods to our Menominee river. Mining interest Tequilla Enterprises are trying to dig a huge polluting open pit mine that has a perimeter only 100 feet from the banks of our river.

This is extraordinarily irresponsible to put such a toxic operation that close to the waters edge.

For context the Menominee is the border forming river that separates Michigan and Wisconsin. It's a major spawning river for sturgeon that the Menominee tribe has held sacred since before the Mayflower.

The mining threatens all of this.

[Larry of the Lawn]

12 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

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As for Enbridge being a "shitty company", it actually has an excellent reputation as a pipeline company, and is ranked 4th out of 196 companies in the industry in ESG matters. It's also one of 9 Canadian companies ranked as the top 100 sustainable companies in the world (ranked 46th). Those rankings are based on more than a dozen factors, including relative water and energy consumption, greenhouse gas emissions, waste production, CEO-to-worker pay ratios and board and management diversity. So don't talk to me about how evil it is.

As for oil spills, we could fight over the details of oil spills American companies have managed to do over the decades and compare then to Enbridge's. I don't see Whitmer banning a long list of American companies from the state of Michigan, or any other US states banning US companies either. This is strictly political, an easy shot at a Canadian company.

.

I will talk about how shitty Enbridge is.  They are an oil and gas transport company.  They are shitty by definition.  They had hundreds of spills between 2000 and 2010.  They are part of Dakota Access Pipeline.  They aren't "sustainable" just because they have some money in solar power.  They run pipelines 10 ft from people's homes, and don't fix shit till it breaks and spills toxic petroleum.

That's like saying "Ted Bundy was the 3rd nicest American serial killer". 

Why are you bringing other oil spills into this?  Those are bad too.  It doesn't make these Great Lakes pipelines less of a problem.

You're making this into some kind of attack on Canada, which it isn't.  

You call Whitmer an idiot because the pipeline supplies Michigan with propane.  Do you think she's unaware of this?  Or is it actually possible, despite all your claims here, that she actually has environmental concerns?  

[Fragile Bird]

19 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Or is it actually possible, despite all your claims here, that she actually has environmental concerns?  

In a word, no.

She’s a politician. Enbridge is an easy target. Canadians don’t vote in Michigan elections.

 

[Fragile Bird]

50 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

 Or is it actually possible, despite all your claims here, that she actually has environmental concerns?  

I wanted to look at this statement further. My litmus test for "does a politician have environmental concerns" is coal-fired generating plants.

Ontario pledged in 2002 to have all 5 coal plants, which produced 25% of our power, shut down by 2015. The first plant was closed in 2005 and the last one in 2014, and a statute was passed banning future use of coal in the province. It wasn't an easy job. The Nanticoke plant was the largest coal-powered hydro generating plant in all of North America.

I knew Michigan has coal-fired plants, because here in Ontario when we talk about emissions we are always told the reason our air isn't cleaner is because of coal plants in Michigan and Ohio. The reason people in New York state have cleaner air now is because Nanticoke is gone. The issue is prevailing winds, which blow west to east.

Whitmer the environmentalist? Holy fuck, Michigan has 11, count 'em, 11 coal-fired power plants, producing 31% of the state's power. And most aren't going to be closed until 2030 to 2040.

Whitmer, the environmentalist. 

[Larry of the Lawn]

19 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I wanted to look at this statement further. My litmus test for "does a politician have environmental concerns" is coal-fired generating plants.

Ontario pledged in 2002 to have all 5 coal plants, which produced 25% of our power, shut down by 2015. The first plant was closed in 2005 and the last one in 2014, and a statute was passed banning future use of coal in the province. It wasn't an easy job. The Nanticoke plant was the largest coal-powered hydro generating plant in all of North America.

I knew Michigan has coal-fired plants, because here in Ontario when we talk about emissions we are always told the reason our air isn't cleaner is because of coal plants in Michigan and Ohio. The reason people in New York state have cleaner air now is because Nanticoke is gone. The issue is prevailing winds, which blow west to east.

Whitmer the environmentalist? Holy fuck, Michigan has 11, count 'em, 11 coal-fired power plants, producing 31% of the state's power. And most aren't going to be closed until 2030 to 2040.

Whitmer, the environmentalist. 

When did Michigan decide to shut down their coal plants?  Who was responsible for that?  

That's great that Ontario shut down its coal plants, but this isn't some competition between the US and Canada.  

I also never said Whitmer was an environmentalist, I asked you whether or not it was possible she had environmental concerns.   You're the one sitting here defending and whitewashing an oil and gas company.

I suspect Enbridge's claims about how catastrophic it will be to shut the pipeline down are vastly overblown.  

[Week]

14 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I wanted to look at this statement further. My litmus test for "does a politician have environmental concerns" is coal-fired generating plants.

Moved the goalposts and still stuck the landing with aplomb! Bravo.

Under discussion is the environmental concern of a pipeline under fresh water.

Coal plants certainly need to go too - which is a part of her MI Healthy Climate plan. I know it seems like she's been office for awhile - COVID and all - she was elected in 2019. I'd also note that 5 plants, or units of plants, are scheduled to shut down by 2023. Too many remaining still.

[DanteGabriel]

31 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I wanted to look at this statement further. My litmus test for "does a politician have environmental concerns" is coal-fired generating plants.

I guess some people use coal plants as a litmus test and some people use allowing a shitty and poorly regulated company to risk poisoning everyone's water. The goalpost can be wherever one needs it.

[IheartIheartTesla]

I will still be voting for Whitmer in 2022 (just like I did in 2018). It isnt even a competition when on the other side you have an insurrection enabling, COVID denying party. Anyhoo, pretty sure shutting down Line 5 was part of her campaign promise in 2018.

I wouldnt say we are the greatest state when it comes to the environment, but there have been significant pushes in wind and solar here (there are a lot of windmills to behold when I drive outside town limits, and our utility company has built and is expanding solar farms in the state).

[Fragile Bird]

29 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

I guess some people use coal plants as a litmus test and some people use allowing a shitty and poorly regulated company to risk poisoning everyone's water. The goalpost can be wherever one needs it.

Enbridge is neither shitty nor poorly regulated. You have a problem with the regulations? Write your Senator and member of Congress.

[DanteGabriel]

1 minute ago, Fragile Bird said:

Enbridge is neither shitty nor poorly regulated. You have a problem with the regulations? Write your Senator and member of Congress.

Do you have stock in them?

[Week]

They largest inland oil spill in US history seems like a mild black spot. In addition:

https://www.corp-research.org/enbridge

https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/reports/dangerous-pipelines/

If this is a good, or even *average*, company then we're looking at a pretty low bar. Which, eh, probably the case for oil and gas companies.

[Larry of the Lawn]

4 minutes ago, Week said:

They largest inland oil spill in US history seems like a mild black spot. In addition:

https://www.corp-research.org/enbridge

https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/reports/dangerous-pipelines/

If this is a good, or even *average*, company then we're looking at a pretty low bar. Which, eh, probably the case for oil and gas companies.

They're one of the most sustainable companies in the world.  

 

14 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Enbridge is neither shitty nor poorly regulated. You have a problem with the regulations? Write your Senator and member of Congress.

That 2010 Kalamazoo spill?  They knew in 2005 the line had been compromised and decided not to fix it.  And then after an alarm sounded about the leak, they did nothing for 18 hours.  They said they thought the alarm was malfunctioning.

They are accountable to no one except their shareholders.  

[DireWolfSpirit]

I'm all for fair disclosure, ill go first.

I do not have stock in Enbridge.

[Fragile Bird]

1 hour ago, DanteGabriel said:

I guess some people use coal plants as a litmus test and some people use allowing a shitty and poorly regulated company to risk poisoning everyone's water. The goalpost can be wherever one needs it.

I am not going to get sucked into any more environmental arguments. If I could force the shutdown of the Alberta oil sands I’d do it in a flash. That’s not my point.
 

My point is that Whitmer wants to shut down 50% of the delivery of fuel to 22 million people. I laughed at Larry’s post because he said he doubted doing that would have the impact I said it would. Right now Colonial Pipeline is in a ransom ware attack and their pipeline delivering gasoline to the east coast of the US is shut down. It only delivers 45% of the supply, and it’s only gasoline. And they say the pipeline will be up and running by the weekend. In the meantime the US government is suspending all kinds of regulations and moving heaven and earth to get gasoline delivered to the affected areas. I see reports of long lines at gas stations, and gas stations that are shut down because they have run out of fuel. I have Facebook friends posting warnings to go out there and get gas for your vehicle before the supply runs out.

The Biden government is washing it’s hands of the issue between Colonial and the hackers. It’s said it has no advice to give with regard to whether or not Colonial should pay the hackers. Colonial has refused to say whether or not it will pay the hackers. The suspicion is that in fact, it has already paid the hackers, probably millions of dollars, money which they will use to hack other installations in the US and elsewhere in the world. No problem, right? Because the US can’t have 60% of the country go without 45% of their gasoline.

Imagine what living with that for months, or even years, would do to the US economy.

In all likelihood the refinery in Quebec will have to start getting supplied from Norway or by the Saudis. Oil tankers have such a better record, amirite?The refinery owners in Ontario have already said that if there is no supply the refineries will likely be shut down. Where is Ontario supposed to get it’s fuel supply? Getting it by pipeline from Texas, like the US East coast?

All this is no skin off Whitmer’s nose. I bet if the refineries offered to move operations to Michigan she would miraculously change her policy. Do her lips move when she talks? Then she’s a liar. Isn’t that the definition of a politician?

Like I said, she’s an economic terrorist.

Oh, and about those coal plants. Emissions from coal plants poison and kill people every single day of the week in both Canada and the US. But closing coal plants in Michigan will raise prices and piss off voters. So just point at the pipeline crossing under the Straits and shut it down. Bonus points! No economic effect in Michigan!

 

[DMC]

2 hours ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

Anyhoo, pretty sure shutting down Line 5 was part of her campaign promise in 2018.

It was.

[Fury Resurrected]

1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said:

I am not going to get sucked into any more environmental arguments. If I could force the shutdown of the Alberta oil sands I’d do it in a flash. That’s not my point.
 

My point is that Whitmer wants to shut down 50% of the delivery of fuel to 22 million people. I laughed at Larry’s post because he said he doubted doing that would have the impact I said it would. Right now Colonial Pipeline is in a ransom ware attack and their pipeline delivering gasoline to the east coast of the US is shut down. It only delivers 45% of the supply, and it’s only gasoline. And they say the pipeline will be up and running by the weekend. In the meantime the US government is suspending all kinds of regulations and moving heaven and earth to get gasoline delivered to the affected areas. I see reports of long lines at gas stations, and gas stations that are shut down because they have run out of fuel. I have Facebook friends posting warnings to go out there and get gas for your vehicle before the supply runs out.

The Biden government is washing it’s hands of the issue between Colonial and the hackers. It’s said it has no advice to give with regard to whether or not Colonial should pay the hackers. Colonial has refused to say whether or not it will pay the hackers. The suspicion is that in fact, it has already paid the hackers, probably millions of dollars, money which they will use to hack other installations in the US and elsewhere in the world. No problem, right? Because the US can’t have 60% of the country go without 45% of their gasoline.

Imagine what living with that for months, or even years, would do to the US economy.

In all likelihood the refinery in Quebec will have to start getting supplied from Norway or by the Saudis. Oil tankers have such a better record, amirite?The refinery owners in Ontario have already said that if there is no supply the refineries will likely be shut down. Where is Ontario supposed to get it’s fuel supply? Getting it by pipeline from Texas, like the US East coast?

All this is no skin off Whitmer’s nose. I bet if the refineries offered to move operations to Michigan she would miraculously change her policy. Do her lips move when she talks? Then she’s a liar. Isn’t that the definition of a politician?

Like I said, she’s an economic terrorist.

Oh, and about those coal plants. Emissions from coal plants poison and kill people every single day of the week in both Canada and the US. But closing coal plants in Michigan will raise prices and piss off voters. So just point at the pipeline crossing under the Straits and shut it down. Bonus points! No economic effect in Michigan!

 

I have brought up indigenous impact to you several times here and you’ve ignored it every single time. How is Enbridge such a great not evil company when they are, right now today, trying to ram Line 3 through indigenous lands that have been saying for years they do not want it on their land and wasting precious legal resources to fight to stop it? It is absolutely being forced onto what is supposed to be a sovereign nation who will assume all the risk of it fails, own the land, and don’t want it there. How is this even remotely acceptable to you?

[DMC]

So looks like Rahm Emanuel is finally going to get a job in the Biden administration.  As ambassador to Japan.