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Targaryeninkingslanding

The merging of Jon and Robb

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Posted (edited)

Robb is dead. At least his body is dead. But, if you ascribe to the theory that Grey Wind survived, you may also even believe that Robb could have survived the red Wedding by warging into his direwolf. The point of this theory is not to dispute this possibility, in fact it predisposes it.

If Grey Wind is alive and Robb's consciousness survives in him, so what? He is still an animal and not a man. So how can you reintroduce him and make him part of the story? How can this be done and to what end?

To answer that we must referent to a conversation Jon had with Varamyr Six Skins, during which the skin changer reveals that Orell still lives inside him.

"Once a beast's been joined to a man, any skinchanger can slip inside and ride him. Orell was withering inside his feathers, so I took the eagle for my own. But the joining works both ways, warg. Orell lives inside me now, whispering how much he hates you. And I can soar above the Wall, and see with eagle eyes."

So we have established that Jon at least has the knowledge of the existence of merging. We know that his warging abilities are growing and may grow more still. 

If Grey Wind containing Robb is alive, the only real use for him would be something along these lines, and I can't help but think that the inclusion of this ability is meant for Jon in the future, Chekhov's gun situation. It's too tempting not to use at some point. Not only that but it would further cement Jon's claim as King in the North (because he will now also be Robb), provided that he could prove that Robb lives inside him or is merged with him by revealing information to Robb loyalists or Jane Westering something only Robb would know.

The existence of this ability does not necessitate the merging of Jon and Robb, but it is the best way I can think of to exploit the power based on how it has been presented to the reader so far in accordance with a theory I am partial too.

Edited by Targaryeninkingslanding
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Robb solidified his claim in two ways; the infamous letter, and the fact that his brothers are all alive and all have the wolves to prove it.

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I think that should happen. It would be really cool if Jon could talk to rob, cause Jon really loves rob but he also feels angry about being a bastard so it would be really cool if they could be the same person and rob could tell Jon that he’s the one he’d want to be king of the north and such. It would like fix that part of Jon that feels rejected and sad because of catelyn and because he’s a bastard 

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1 hour ago, Orion2 said:

I think that should happen. It would be really cool if Jon could talk to rob, cause Jon really loves rob but he also feels angry about being a bastard so it would be really cool if they could be the same person and rob could tell Jon that he’s the one he’d want to be king of the north and such. It would like fix that part of Jon that feels rejected and sad because of catelyn and because he’s a bastard 

Thanks Orion2. Your recent post on Wight Consciousness sort of made me think of it.

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The most interesting theory I've heard is that Robb and Greywind were both killed but their consciousnesses fled into Catelyn before her death.  Thus Lady Stoneheart may possess a bit of Robb and Greywind psyches.  

Cat tearing at her face after Robb's death mirrors what happened with the Wildling when Varamyr tried to take her body over as he was dying.

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1 minute ago, Frey family reunion said:

The most interesting theory I've heard is that Robb and Greywind were both killed but their consciousnesses fled into Catelyn before her death.  Thus Lady Stoneheart may possess a bit of Robb and Greywind psyches.  

Cat tearing at her face after Robb's death mirrors what happened with the Wildling when Varamyr tried to take her body over as he was dying.

Iv'e read that one too! Moreso to that her death mirrored Varamyr and the woman he tried to take over. Its definitely a cool idea, and a possible way to have a merging of Jon and Robb if Grey wind did die. Still, Jon merging with Cat to any extent feels... weird

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Targaryeninkingslanding said:

Iv'e read that one too! Moreso to that her death mirrored Varamyr and the woman he tried to take over. Its definitely a cool idea, and a possible way to have a merging of Jon and Robb if Grey wind did die. Still, Jon merging with Cat to any extent feels... weird

Yes it does.  I do think that UnJon and Lady Stoneheart may have an opportunity to meet up in Winterfell.  Stoneheart is looking for revenge not just against the Freys but also against the Boltons.  So assuming she takes care of the Freys first, that may lead her back to Winterfell to settle matters with the Boltons.  And assuming Jon is brought back and he still plans on taking his wildlings to Winterfell it may present an opportunity for them to be reunited.  Now whether that will be as friends or foes is an interesting question.  

Edited by Frey family reunion

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18 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

 Now whether that will be as friends or foes is an interesting question.  

If she knows that Rickon lives, 100% gonna be his foe. But it would be nice if they could have some reconciliation, and maybe unCat get the closure of knowing Ned didn't cheat if  R+L=J is known to Jon.

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1 minute ago, Targaryeninkingslanding said:

If she knows that Rickon lives, 100% gonna be his foe. But it would be nice if they could have some reconciliation, and maybe unCat get the closure of knowing Ned didn't cheat if  R+L=J is known to Jon.

I don't really think that's the issue for Cat.  She seems to be fairly understanding of Ned fathering a bastard during war.  Apparently those things just happen in Westeros.  Her problem is Ned bringing Jon to Winterfell and raising him as an equal to her own legitimate children.  

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24 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

She seems to be fairly understanding of Ned fathering a bastard during war.  Apparently those things just happen in Westeros.  Her problem is Ned bringing Jon to Winterfell and raising him as an equal to her own legitimate children.  

I absolutely agree that bastards are common and  Cat understood that. And you are right, she deeply resented what she felt to be her children's place being usurped by the open presence of Jon at court in Winterfell, but Cat definitely displays fear that Jon or his children would usurp her children or her potential Grandchildren (even though we know he never would). If Rickon is alive, UnCat will see Jon as a person usurping her son's birthright and would in that case likely be his enemy.

Having said that, R+L=J resolves the problem of what seat Jon may inherit. Jon has a claim to the Iron throne and is already a sort of De Facto King beyond the walls. R+L=J may then be used to reconcile these characters, because UnCat will realize Jon is not the threat she thought he was, and may grant her phantom some degree of solace that Ned did what he did not because he couldn't put aside a bastard, but because he was protecting the very life of his nephew.

Finally, if they reunite and Jon and Robb have already merged somehow, she may be able to accept Jon as her Son (kinda/spiritually) and be able to bless his rise as lord of Winterfell and king in the north. 

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6 minutes ago, PrettyLittlePsycho said:

OK, on the risk of making a fool of myself, there is a theory Grey Wind survived ?

How the hell would that be possible ?

From what I understand, a few people on this blog, including me, have proposed this. Here's a shameless plug into a post I made explaining my own thoughts on how Grey Wind could have survived;

If you look around you'll find some similar stuff. If you haven't already, I would also recommend poking your nose around the compendium of theories on the main page of General.

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