Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Leonardo

Jaime traded for Sansa and Arya. What happens?

Recommended Posts

Tyrion could refuse the trade for the simple reason of them not having Arya... But Tywin was very ready to trade Eddard for Tyrion, via ASOS at the time of AGOT... Tywin was ready to trade Jaime for Catelyn POST RW...

 

Having Sansa back breeds alliances, and gives Robb an heir. Let's say they trade Jaime for both girls in AGOT; what happens at the exchange? They get Sansa and I don't see Jaime as some mastermind. Hindsight 20/20 I think the trade for both at face value is better than keeping Jaime. After all keeping Jaime doesn't really give anything in the end

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Leonardo said:

Tyrion could refuse the trade for the simple reason of them not having Arya... But Tywin was very ready to trade Eddard for Tyrion, via ASOS at the time of AGOT... Tywin was ready to trade Jaime for Catelyn POST RW...

 

Having Sansa back breeds alliances, and gives Robb an heir. Let's say they trade Jaime for both girls in AGOT; what happens at the exchange? They get Sansa and I don't see Jaime as some mastermind. Hindsight 20/20 I think the trade for both at face value is better than keeping Jaime. After all keeping Jaime doesn't really give anything in the end

Criston Cole set a precedent for what Kingsguard can do. Jaime isn’t a mastermind but he’s a very skilled swordsman, and a charismatic leader. He’d be a very dangerous opponent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 4/29/2021 at 9:45 AM, Canon Claude said:

Criston Cole set a precedent for what Kingsguard can do. Jaime isn’t a mastermind but he’s a very skilled swordsman, and a charismatic leader. He’d be a very dangerous opponent.

Agreed. Jamie is a battlefield commander who thrashed through the Riverlands. He may not be as cunning as Tywin, but he is every bit the commander and one of the best fighters in Westeros. his men love him meaning he leads armies of generaly high moral and because he is courageous it is easy for him to inspire his men.

The Whispering Woods only went so well because the northmen had surprise on their side, and Jamie still almost killed Robb. The Kingslayer would be far more cautious (as he shows in Feast and Dance) in using scouts so that would not happen again.

Thats why everyone was against trading for him, even though he has no children and holds no land his own. He is feared, and in no case would the north maim him before trading him back like the goat did.

And to that end I'm not sure it would stop the Red Wedding, which need up being the main tactic used to end the War with the North

Edited by Targaryeninkingslanding
spelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/29/2021 at 8:44 AM, Leonardo said:

Having Sansa back breeds alliances

Major state actors don't ally with causes solely to make marriages; those are more the seal on a geopolitical arrangement than the cause of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even if Robb was foolish enough to want to make this trade, I'm sure even he's going to notice that one girl is not two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Robb exchanged Jaime for her two sisters, his image would suffer a lot from it. It would no longer be a matter of a feeble-willed woman losing her mind to save her loved daughters (something that can be understood in the Westerosi misogynistic mindset), and it would be seen as a sign of weakness and inability to rule. Robb's leadership would be put in question.

Rickard Karstark's wrath would no longer be directed towards some defenseless prisoners, but towards Robb. And I'm sure they'd be other lords who'd think that a king cannot ask his bannermen to sacrifice their lives to capture a prisoner, and then bargain him away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/29/2021 at 7:44 AM, Leonardo said:

Tyrion could refuse the trade for the simple reason of them not having Arya... But Tywin was very ready to trade Eddard for Tyrion, via ASOS at the time of AGOT... Tywin was ready to trade Jaime for Catelyn POST RW...

 

Having Sansa back breeds alliances, and gives Robb an heir. Let's say they trade Jaime for both girls in AGOT; what happens at the exchange? They get Sansa and I don't see Jaime as some mastermind. Hindsight 20/20 I think the trade for both at face value is better than keeping Jaime. After all keeping Jaime doesn't really give anything in the end

Robb didn't even try to trade Sansa; he left her to die.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

The hard truth is that in Westeros, Sansa is considered less valuable than Jaime. No one ever even expected that Robb would make a trade; this is brought up in AGoT when Adam Marbrand states that Robb would have to be an ass to make that trade. If Lannister bannermen have this sussed out, than you can be damn sure that the northmen do as well. There's no way around it. Robb the boy wants his little sisters back. Robb the Lord understands that this is not possible unless he can defeat the Lannisters. 

Edited by Nathan Stark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/3/2021 at 7:27 PM, Angel Eyes said:

Robb didn't even try to trade Sansa; he left her to die.

Well, left her a hostage. In most cases a Hostage like Sansa is well treated (similar to the Glovers taken by Asha). It's just that Joff is a shit stain who mistreats her. as a reader we can understand that, but i doubt Robb realizes the trauma being inflicted on Sansa, because Robb for the most part expects common decency be shown to a young girl. that may've been naive on his part but it is understandable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He can't get both of them. And if he could he'd need to immediately bethrothe them to Karstarks and Freys. He honestly should have taken the L and let Karstart execute him or order Bolton to do so. It would cement them in his camp if for no other reason than fear from Tywins retaliation 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I know they can't get Arya but, hypothetically if they did, I'm honestly wondering where they send Sansa and Arya. Back to Winterfell? Theon and later Ramsey would love that. 

Stay at Riverrun? Walder Frey certainly likes that.

Edited by Khal Eazy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/5/2021 at 10:57 PM, Hrulj said:

He can't get both of them. And if he could he'd need to immediately bethrothe them to Karstarks and Freys. He honestly should have taken the L and let Karstart execute him or order Bolton to do so. It would cement them in his camp if for no other reason than fear from Tywins retaliation 

This I like.

 

 

1 hour ago, Khal Eazy said:

I know they can't get Arya but, hypothetically if they did, I'm honestly wondering where they send Sansa and Arya. Back to Winterfell? Theon and later Ramsey would love that. 

Stay at Riverrun? Walder Frey certainly likes that.

Have to be White Harbor, or the neck with the crannogmen. Nowhere else is secure enough from reprisal. Eyrie would be a great choice but they'd never trust Lysa after her abandoning them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/5/2021 at 11:57 PM, Hrulj said:

He can't get both of them. And if he could he'd need to immediately bethrothe them to Karstarks and Freys. He honestly should have taken the L and let Karstart execute him or order Bolton to do so. It would cement them in his camp if for no other reason than fear from Tywins retaliation 

Now that's politics, baby!

Of course, the son of Ned Stark could never have done something so machiavellian and cunning. He would have seen it as beneath the honor of his House. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

Now that's politics, baby!

Of course, the son of Ned Stark could never have done something so machiavellian and cunning. He would have seen it as beneath the honor of his House. 

But he can break his sword word to marry a woman costing him a war. If he knew Frey bride was beautiful I'm willing to wager he'd not have broken it. He obviously didn't do this either. But I don't see it as a result of honor instead of ability to think of it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Hrulj said:

But he can break his sword word to marry a woman costing him a war. If he knew Frey bride was beautiful I'm willing to wager he'd not have broken it. He obviously didn't do this either. But I don't see it as a result of honor instead of ability to think of it

Robb broke his word to the Freys for two reasons; to do right by Jeyne by prioritizing her honor over his, and ensure that if she got pregnant, he wouldn't leave a bastard to grow up like Jon Snow did. Basically, Robb operated under 16 year old boy logic, not political pragmatism logic.

If Robb had known his Frey bride might be someone like Roslyn, I really don't see anything changing. He might have been more willing to keep his oath, but probably not. He still would have gone west, gotten injured, been "comforted" by Jeyne at the news of Winterfell's fall, etc. And he still would have operated under 16 year old boy logic, doing what he thought was most honorable under the circumstances. 

And honestly, breaking your word to a scheming, coniving family like Walder Frey's brood is hardly the worst crime in the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

And honestly, breaking your word to a scheming, coniving family like Walder Frey's brood is hardly the worst crime in the world.

But Freys had at least 5000 men if one includes all those poorly armed peasants that marched north with Roose when family of Robb's new wife had maybe 50 men. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How could they possibly include Arya in the trade, when they simply don't have her. The Jeyne Poole tactic wouldn't exactly work on Robb, unless they were expecting him to forget what his sister looked like, lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

But Freys had at least 5000 men if one includes all those poorly armed peasants that marched north with Roose when family of Robb's new wife had maybe 50 men. 

Well, I never said what Robb did was smart. I do think that if he had stumbled into Margeary Tyrell's arms instead, it would have gone a lot better for him. But the Freys were already getting cold feet before they heard of Robb's marriage to Jeyne. A 5000 man army isn't that useful if you can't trust their loyalty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...