NFL 2021 - Draft Day or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Pick

[briantw]

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I think this a very rational take. I also think you guys may very well win tomorrow. 

Baker is just so tough to peg.  He had one of the best rookie seasons of all time before an absolutely disastrous sophomore season that was partially his own fault.  Baker showed up in 2019 out of shape (seriously, look at pictures of him prior to that season and pictures of him now when he looks like he's been doing quad work with Saquon Barkley) and I think the entire team was buying into their own hype after trading for Odell Beckham and being anointed the preseason champs.  Then last season he started out a little rough, which is understandable given the virtual offseason and lack of preseason coupled with a new coaching staff, but down the stretch he was playing like a top five QB in the NFL and torched Pittsburgh in a playoff game where the special teams coordinator was acting as the head coach because Stefanski was out with covid.

The clusterfuck that 2019 was may realistically have been the best thing to happen to the Browns, though.  It got John Dorsey fired when he wanted to bring back Kitchens for another year, which consequently put Paul DePodesta in the seat of power.  DePodesta had been advocating for hiring Kevin Stefanski the year prior over Freddie Kitchens and finally got his wish, and I'm sure he was instrumental in bringing in Andrew Berry as well.  

A lot of bad shit had to happen for the Browns to finally end up with competent coaching and management.  

[Whiskeyjack]

21 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Well of course you would argue that. 

And where's the contradiction? That Baker shouldn't get an agent and then accept a contract of that value?

I'm definitely biased.   

That said, the contradiction was this -

I'm not sure you need a full time agent to negotiate contracts anymore.

The question is how much of a cut would he accept? Is $30M AAV okay for him? 

Thats exactly the reason why he does need an agent.  He (and any other player) needs professional advice on where he should fit into the market, and when its better to do a deal vs testing free agency (or possibly getting franchise tagged). 

I'm talking about from the Brown's perspective, because if I'm them I am not giving anything close to top 5 money unless he balls out and makes a deep run. And even then I'd be nervous offering him such a deal because I don't think he's ever going to be that guy. You can win games with Baker, but I doubt a team will ever win a title 

because of Baker.

Nah, man, read your quote above.  You were talking about it from Baker's perspective.

Also, 100% this -

9 hours ago, briantw said:

There's a hell of a lot more nuance to NFL contracts than simply average per year.  There's also a reason that very few NFL players choose to represent themselves, and that's because most of them have no experience in contract structure or negotiation.

I don't work in football, so I can't really speak to the specifics of contract negotiation in the sport, but - (1) obviously there are things like total value, years, guarantees, guarantees for injuries, signing bonuses, other bonuses, tax issues, all of the associated language with each of those factors, etc., and (2) I can speak for baseball, and can tell you that our contracts have more going on than you see on the surface when you read reports of years and dollars in the media.  (plus we have arbitration, which is what my focus is, and that's a whole different animal that definitely requires an expert - but there's no equivalent for that in football, really)

9 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Of course there are. And again, representing yourself =/= not having legal counsel.

If you needed heart surgery, would you go to your general practitioner?  Or would you find the best possible heart surgeon?

No agent would ever take on a client for an hourly negotiation.  Would set a horrible precedent for them.  So any player who wants to pay an hourly rate or a flat fee is going to have to find a lawyer who doesn't work in the industry, and would likely end up costing themselves in terms of money/structure/guarantees/etc.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

15 minutes ago, Whiskeyjack said:

Nah, man, read your quote above.  You were talking about it from Baker's perspective.

I wasn't intending to if that's how it came off. I was talking about what I would offer right now if I'm the Browns. 

Sure, he and  his agent should say no to that. And if I ran the Browns I'd just let the season playout knowing I control his contract for three more seasons if I so choose to. Right now I would not pay Baker top dollar on a long term deal with a ton of guaranteed money. 

Quote

If you needed heart surgery, would you go to your general practitioner?  Or would you find the best possible heart surgeon?

No agent would ever take on a client for an hourly negotiation.  Would set a horrible precedent for them.  So any player who wants to pay an hourly rate or a flat fee is going to have to find a lawyer who doesn't work in the industry, and would likely end up costing themselves in terms of money/structure/guarantees/etc.

Except this isn't heart surgery. And like with many things the need for a middleman slowly goes away. Not wishing your industry ill, but I think it will be a relic in the future. Hopefully for you I'm wrong.

 

As an aside, I would love to sit in on an arbitration hearing. 

[Rhom]

Hmmmmm… Jimmy G drives the Niners all the way to the five yard line, they pull him out for a goal line package with Trey Lance and his first NFL pass is a touchdown. 

I don’t know how I feel about it.  Seems unfair to Jimmy and it was a play he could have easily executed as well.  

Credit to Jimmy for being the first guy on the sideline to hug Lance… but I don’t like it.  Similar to what they did with Kaepernick and Alex Smith at first.  I hope it shakes out better in the end than that.  There was a flash of success that wasn’t sustainable there.

[briantw]

2 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Hmmmmm… Jimmy G drives the Niners all the way to the five yard line, they pull him out for a goal line package with Trey Lance and his first NFL pass is a touchdown. 

I don’t know how I feel about it.  Seems unfair to Jimmy and it was a play he could have easily executed as well.  

Credit to Jimmy for being the first guy on the sideline to hug Lance… but I don’t like it.  Similar to what they did with Kaepernick and Alex Smith at first.  I hope it shakes out better in the end than that.  There was a flash of success that wasn’t sustainable there.

Jimmy's days were numbered the moment they used the second overall pick on Lance.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Just now, briantw said:

Jimmy's days were numbered the moment they used the second overall pick on Lance.

Yep.

Also, Cousins is terrible. I have no idea why they extended him at that rate. JFC.

[Rhom]

7 minutes ago, briantw said:

Jimmy's days were numbered the moment they used the second overall pick on Lance.

And I realize that.  I also think it was an overreaction.

If Jimmy completes one more pass in the Super Bowl so many narratives are different.

My favorite being the one that if SF wins that game, KC is a two time Super Bowl loser and instead of Mahomes being the greatest QB to ever play the game, questions are already coming from the hot take specialists “Can Patrick Mahomes win the big game?!!?”  

[Rhom]

Was concerned about SFs defense early giving up too much on the ground.  But they closed down better as the half went on and grew the lead.  Won’t have to worry about the run at all in the second half with a 31-10 lead.

[briantw]

 

Also, I called Lance the second overall pick and he was the third, so consider this my correction.

[Rhom]

4 minutes ago, briantw said:

 

Also, I called Lance the second overall pick and he was the third, so consider this my correction.

That’s gross…

[Prince of the North]

10 minutes ago, briantw said:

 

Also, I called Lance the second overall pick and he was the third, so consider this my correction.

Jayzus!!!

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooo, Mitzmagic is hurt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

40 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Was concerned about SFs defense early giving up too much on the ground.  But they closed down better as the half went on and grew the lead.  Won’t have to worry about the run at all in the second half with a 31-10 lead.

I'm glad you're getting a good result with your new found sports freedom, but would it not have been cheaper to just get DIRECTV than send your stepdaughter to college? 

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

157 vs. 57 in my money league. He still has a few players to go, but nice. 

Herbert, do more work.

[Rhom]

2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Noooooooooooooooooooooooo, Mitzmagic is hurt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm glad you're getting a good result with your new found sports freedom, but would it not have been cheaper to just get DIRECTV than send your stepdaughter to college? 

 

She’s playing volleyball at a tiny college in east Tennessee.  Surprisingly affordable for a small private school.  It’s actually cheaper than instate tuition at the mid sized state schools here.  That really shocked me.  She got a bit of a scholarship for her volleyball but nothing like a full ride; but it’s pretty affordable.

I do need to make sure to thank her today.  

[briantw]

Jalen Hurts looks good.

Granted, against the Falcons, but still.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

37 minutes ago, Rhom said:

I do need to make sure to thank her today.  

Assuming she gets her degree, for her graduation party make it a "Thanks for Sunday Pass" party, then tell her to go to grad school to keep it going. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Ride the lightning, @Mexal! OT it is!!!

[Mexal]

I hate being a Bengals fan.

[Rhom]

What the hell… Niners are doing all they can to blow this game.

ETA:  They hold on, but I wasn’t expecting that!!!

[Nictarion]

14 minutes ago, Mexal said:

I hate being a Bengals fan.

Don’t you dare saddle that poor kid with this misery.

Zac Taylor being an NFL coach is absolutely criminal. Fucking moron goes for it on 4th down  from his own 30 up by two TD’s. Completely swung the game.