Jump to content
Mlle. Zabzie

Covid 19-31 The Mutants Are Coming

Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

So the question would then be; which is the more threatening, vaccine side effects or Covid side effects in that age group? Again, there’s very little data for this group so we don’t know. I know the UK are already discussing whether the downsides of AZ (blood clotting) make it worthwhile to vaccinate under 30’s with. I think there’s an argument that vaccinating kids is better for society at large more than the individual kid, so I can see why some might be reluctant to ‘take one for the team’ as it were.

Also, my understanding is that you need trials for an age group first anyway, which haven’t completed for any of the vaccines yet. So this is moot until then.

Pfizer has run trials for 12-15 already, and their trial for 8-12 is finishing this month. The trials for younger are finishing in July.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Zorral said:

That 'herd immunity' about which some so speak so definitively -- forget about it.

This is not a surprise.

"Reaching ‘Herd Immunity’ Is Unlikely in the U.S., Experts Now Believe
Widely circulating coronavirus variants and persistent hesitancy about vaccines will keep the goal out of reach. The virus is here to stay, but vaccinating the most vulnerable may be enough to restore normalcy.

There is consensus among scientists and public health experts that the herd immunity threshold is not attainable...."

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/03/health/covid-herd-immunity-vaccine.html?

In a specific way, this is a frustrating article: the numbers cited as to how many are vaccinated in this country are higher than they are, and directly contradicted by articles and graphs right next to it.

This has been obvious for quite a while. This isn’t a polio, or even a measles, it’s more of a flu from that perspective.  Vaccination changes risk calculations though.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Karlbear said:

Pfizer has run trials for 12-15 already, and their trial for 8-12 is finishing this month. The trials for younger are finishing in July.

I'm glad they're pushing ahead with this.  We have too many refusing vaccinations in my region, so I really want to get my kids protected as soon as possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, argonak said:

I'm glad they're pushing ahead with this.  We have too many refusing vaccinations in my region, so I really want to get my kids protected as soon as possible.

Same.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Listening to a long discussion about NYers, masks and vaccination.  (Again, the numbers cited for NY and the country are well below 50% for vaccination).  Like us, it seems so many, despite being fully vaccinated, are still dependent on mask wearing for going out, for a list of reasons, all of them good.  Like, it seems so many, turn out to be pretty reluctant and wary of initiating social / entertainment contact for a whole variety of reasons, all of them valid, including having kids who are not vaccinated.  But most of all, for all of us, it seems we are deeply aware of being surrounded not only by jerkwaddies as individuals and whole regions, like Florida, who refuse vaccination, but huge swathes of the globe where people are desperate and the variants have fiesta.  So -- we can't believe we are 'that' safe, despite even here, our numbers steeply declining, almost from one single day of last week.

That said, we are finally doing a socially distanced, masked thing after all this time on Thursday night.  One of our friends, a world-class musician, is hosting a musical performance event in a very open to the outdoors, ventilated space, by invitation only to other fully vaccinated musicians.  There's a kind of patio too.  Masks required as well as full vaccination. No liquor! He knows who is and who isn't vaccinated because we've all stayed in communication throughout.  I think this may well be a lot easier for re-entry than a more intimate initial socialization activity, such as dinner. A lot of people whom we care for a great deal are invited.

All night subway service is going to resume in two weeks, which should make a lot of difference to a great deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, second post on the heels of the previous, but here is a profile of those who are choosing not to be vaccinated. Which maybe can help us to decide whether to continue trying to 'educate' the anti-vaxxers or not. (Myself, entirely given up on them, like on quite a few other jerkwaddies's convictions, as an utter waste of precious time. But not everyone is as bloody minded as I.) 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/05/the-people-who-wont-get-the-vaccine/618765/

Quote

 

....For both yes-vaxxers like me and the no-vaxxers I spoke with, feelings about the vaccine are intertwined with feelings about the pandemic.

Although I think I’m right about the vaccines, the truth is that my thinking on this issue is motivated. I canceled vacations, canceled my wedding, avoided indoor dining, and mostly stayed home for 15 months. All that sucked. I am rooting for the vaccines to work.

But the no-vaxxers I spoke with just don’t care. They’ve traveled, eaten in restaurants, gathered with friends inside, gotten COVID-19 or not gotten COVID-19, survived, and decided it was no big deal. What’s more, they’ve survived while flouting the advice of the CDC, the WHO, Anthony Fauci, Democratic lawmakers, and liberals, whom they don’t trust to give them straight answers on anything virus-related.

The no-vaxxers’ reasoning is motivated too. Specifically, they’re motivated to distrust public-health authorities who they’ve decided are a bunch of phony neurotics, and they’re motivated to see the vaccines as a risky pharmaceutical experiment, rather than as a clear breakthrough that might restore normal life (which, again, they barely stopped living). This is the no-vaxxer deep story in a nutshell: I trust my own cells more than I trust pharmaceutical goop; I trust my own mind more than I trust liberal elites‪.... [itals the text's author]

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see Novavax is planning to deliver doses to the EU before the end of the year.  I laughed when I read that.  I was thinking July/August previously.  But at least it seems likely that a deal will be signed very soon.  And it is good to have some vaccine variety.  Who knows what is to come!  But Novavax will only be useful for boosters now (if required in the EU).

I'm sure Novavax will be deliverying doses in the next month or two.  Hopefully, it is focusing a lot of attention on India instead.  It has a deal to produce 1bn doses there.  That would be incredibly useful.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/exclusive-novavax-plans-ship-covid-19-vaccines-europe-late-2021-eu-source-2021-05-03/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like vaccines for teens in the US are coming sooner rather than later:

Quote

 

The Food and Drug Administration is planning to authorize the use of Pfizer-BioNTech’s COVID-19 vaccine in adolescents 12 to 15 years old later this week or early next week, according to a report by The New York Times.

The Times cited unnamed federal officials who did not have authorization to speak publicly about the FDA’s plans. If the FDA does authorize use of the vaccine in the teen group in the week, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s vaccine advisory panel will likely meet a day later to review the clinical trial data and make a recommendation on use, the Times reported.

On March 31, Pfizer announced that the vaccine completely protected adolescents ages 12 to 15 against COVID-19 in a small Phase III clinical trial. The vaccine was also well-tolerated in the age group, producing mainly standard side effects.

 

This should also temporarily revive the flagging vaccination rates as all of those people with teens who want the vaccine try to get it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

In tourist areas of Austria waiters and waitresses are getting vaccination dates now while quite a few people with risk factors are still waiting. Yay for capitalism!

Edited by Luzifer's right hand

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

In tourist areas of Austria waiters and waitresses are getting vaccination dates now while quite a few people with risk factors are still waiting. Yay for capitalism!

Why do you think that is bad? Restaurant will open soon, at least for the vaccinated. Why should the waiters risk their life then? In Germany we are now finally open prio group 3 and this is (along with  people with lesser health riks and over 60 year olds - the ones which would not  take AZ-) everyone who works in areas where they meet a lot of people like bus drivers and supermarket cashiers. These people kept our country running and they should be priorisied. I really have no problem with that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, JoannaL said:

Why do you think that is bad? Restaurant will open soon, at least for the vaccinated. Why should the waiters risk their life then? In Germany we are now finally open prio group 3 and this is (along with  people with lesser health riks and over 60 year olds - the ones which would not  take AZ-) everyone who works in areas where they meet a lot of people like bus drivers and supermarket cashiers. These people kept our country running and they should be priorisied. I really have no problem with that.

Because nothing should be opened before not all people who want it have a vaccine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just got the astrazeneca first dose - in Malawi, where the uptake is so low they've thrown out doses and are worried they'll have to throw out more, and eligibility is now anyone over 18  - including, apparently, people like me, who don't even have a visa. I just walked into a completely empty building, just to get the details, no appointment or anything, in the central hospital in the biggest city (place is buzzing otherwise) and was jabbed in the arm literally within 30 seconds, no questions asked (or entertained, actually). Then they filled out some details and gave me a card. All analog. Was done in 2 minutes all together. I need to not lose the card...I feel a bit woozy but I don't know if that's the shot or just a hot day running errands and walking a lot...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Datepalm said:

Just got the astrazeneca first dose - in Malawi, where the uptake is so low they've thrown out doses and are worried they'll have to throw out more, and eligibility is now anyone over 18  - including, apparently, people like me, who don't even have a visa. I just walked into a completely empty building, just to get the details, no appointment or anything, in the central hospital in the biggest city (place is buzzing otherwise) and was jabbed in the arm literally within 30 seconds, no questions asked (or entertained, actually). Then they filled out some details and gave me a card. All analog. Was done in 2 minutes all together. I need to not lose the card...I feel a bit woozy but I don't know if that's the shot or just a hot day running errands and walking a lot...

I kind of feel like I need to qualify my liking of your post here. Good to hear you got vaccinated. The lack of vaccine uptake in Malawi is less good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Interesting development here: For months now the government did not want to distinguish in their laws between fully vaccinated and other people though there were scientific studies e. g. from Israel which shows that vaccinated people cannot infect themselves or others (not 100%, but really high % nonetheless). Some people went to court about that because they were denied their personal rights (like to go outside in the night (curfew rules), like meeting other people and so on) on the basis of a health emergency, but they cannot infect anyone. So only last week the government wanted to delay again and said again that perhaps end of May they might think about this and at least allow vaccinated people to not have to take a corona test for example for shopping (there are a lot of areas now here which you only can access with a fresh negativ test, but that test is less certain than a vaccination so to not test vaccinated people reduces queues and costs).

So this week our highest constitutional court wrote to the government asking for a statement about these problems ( and presumably indicated that they would rule soon and not in favour of government) and now the laws will change NEXT Saturday. Its seem that all contact rules will not apply for the fully vaccinated (and the ones who recovered from a corona infection) then. Thats rather breathtaking. What does it mean? A lot of people argue that it is unfair that some people have more rights than others. I personally have no problem if some old ladies can meet again for a card game, or that nurses can meet for a drink after their work at the hospital (and its the very old and the medicinal professions which are fully vaccinated as of now). so I am more or less in favour of this , but I think there should (will be ?) some limitations like a medicinal congress or such. I think a meeting of 2000 physicians even if everyone is vaccinated would be ill advised at the moment. But the government really fought against this because they fear a feeling of envy of the not-yet-vaccinated. i dont know if that will be a problem (as I see it I do not have any disadvantage regardless if others can meet or not so let them). If the government  had waited for the ruling of the constitutional court and lost, their Corona laws could have be called unconstitutional and the very loud fraction of anti-Corona activists would have used that. It seems that the new ruling will not apply to small things like mask wearing, so everyone will still have to keep their distance and wear masks in public.

 

edit : found  a link in English

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/04/german-jab-to-freedom-covid-bill-criticised-as-unfair-to-young-people

Edited by JoannaL
new link

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ljkeane said:

I kind of feel like I need to qualify my liking of your post here. Good to hear you got vaccinated. The lack of vaccine uptake in Malawi is less good.

Exactly :-/. They're only at 1-2% vaccination rate. There's loads of misinformation on the one hand, and then probably it doesn't feel very urgent on the  other, there's only been ~1000 deaths in the whole country and cases now are negligible after a big third wave.

Edited by Datepalm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, JoannaL said:

snip

As I understand it, the exemptions probably will contain contact rules (more people can meet, when everyone is fully vaccinated) and the curfew rules - so fully vaccinated people can go running at midnight :cool4:. Fully vaccinated people also will be treated like people who got tested negatively when they want to go to the barber etc, which means they don't have to be tested. All this `Im personally totally ok with. On the other hand, restaurant and bars won't open up earlier,they will only open up,when the general rules allow it - when the 7-day-incidence(?) is constantly under 100. Everyone feel free to correct me, if I`m wrong. I`m also ok with this, because it would be problemativ for people, who want to be vaccinated, but can't, because they are not eligible yet.

On a personal note I have an appointment for a vaccination on thursday, "thanks" to a stroke a couple of years ago. According to e-mail which confirmed my appointment I will get Moderna. But I will have to drive around to 120 km. The vaccination centre is in Freiburg, I live in Konstanz. When I went to my private practioner today, to get get my certifice that I'm eligible, he told me that he is glad, when people get an appointment in a vaccination centre, because he still has people from prio groups 1 (80 years an older) as well as group 2 (70+) who are not so flexible.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, JoannaL said:

But the government really fought against this because they fear a feeling of envy of the not-yet-vaccinated. i dont know if that will be a problem (as I see it I do not have any disadvantage regardless if others can meet or not so let them). 

Yes, I think envy of the vaccinated is a good thing.  I hope it encourages more people to get vaccinated. :) And didn't Merkel say that everyone will at least be able to make an appointment in June?   I know they wouldn't get a dose straight away but people wouldnt have to wait that long!

And its such a human thing.  People would prefer everyone to wallow in misery rather than have other people enjoy themselves a month or two before them!

Our restaurants were doing the same thing.  Restaurants are allowed to open if they can serve food out doors.  But some restaurants don't have that ability and are complaining very loudly.  There is no way they are going to allow indoor dining, so they'd rather no restaurants to open?  (Ok, they probably want money...).

7 hours ago, Datepalm said:

Just got the astrazeneca first dose - in Malawi, where the uptake is so low they've thrown out doses and are worried they'll have to throw out more, and eligibility is now anyone over 18 

Wow.  Scary.  You'd think India would scare people a little.  But no.

And congrats!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

Because nothing should be opened before not all people who want it have a vaccine. 

Maybe in a vacuum, but this isn't practical. Businesses, especially small business need to be able to open so they don't stay closed permanently. There just has to be strict enforcement of social distancing and safety measures.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...