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Why I think (f)Aegon has the blood to ride a Targaryen dragon.


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3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

The Bloodraven we meet in TMK wouldn't have had need of a glamor to infiltrate Whitewalls if he had been able to control animals at that point. All he would have needed was a bunch of ravens or other birds/animals to spy on the folks inside the castle. IT is also curious that neither Maynard Plumm nor the Bloodraven we meet at the end of the story do have pets. We would expect a skinchanger to have at least one pet. And it would have been so easy to give Bloodraven a raven, say, or have Plumm interact with birds, too.

That is an interesting point.  But to be fair, there is still some limitations on what skinchangers can do or see.  It's not easy to engage in conversations with the conspirators to try and gauge the levels of guilt of the various participants, if you're running around as the kitchen mongrel.  

And a bird's eye view may have certain strategic advantages but it's probably of minimal significance when it comes to the infiltration Bloodraven needed to do in Whitewalls.  

But I do agree, that there is no mention of Bloodraven having a totem animal.  Specifically no mention of him personally tending to ravens, to the best of my knowledge.  

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4 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

And one man in a thousand is a pretty big statistic.  There should be more skinchangers in the story than we’re seeing.  

My guess is if the talent isn’t nurtured then it probably remains repressed in the carrier.  Which is why there doesn’t seem to be many skinchangers running around.  In Westeros it’s something that is considered unpure.  So there are few if any one around to help someone develop their abilities.  But there are probably many who would help try to suppress them.

And we can look at Bran as an example.  When he told his Maester about his wolf dreams, the Maester kept giving him substances to prevent his dreams.

I suspect weirwoods may play a role in its full expression as well. The Starks grew up with close contact to their heart tree, and weirwood root systems and stumps have been a factor in several magical or prophetic moments. For example Jaime's dream that convinced him to go get Brienne, and the Hound's victory over Beric in his trial in spite of his paralyzing fear of fire. This is partly why it makes sense that skinchangers are more common beyond the Wall, where heart trees and powerful weirwood groves are common where there are people.

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24 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

For most fantasy authors I would agree, but GRRM really seems to like playing around with the idea of inheritable powers.  Whether it be futuristic psionics, lycanthopy or super hero powers, he's toyed around with this idea before.

Yes, but so far that's the dragon thing with the Targaryens. The skinchangers are different animals, so to speak.

24 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

And Varamyr has apparently been interested on the possibility of passing on his "gift", but of course if this gift can only be passed down by the mom, he may be out of luck.

It seems rather that this kind of talent isn't really hereditary, independent of what Varamyr might wish for. So far we have not seen a single skinchanger with skinchanger children or grandchildren.

24 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

(I would also refer back to the Worldbook, where there was a specific reference of the Starks taking the Warg King's daughters as "prizes".)  

Yes, but that is not accompanied with a single mentioning of a Stark warg or skinchanger, nor are there any indication that any Northern houses still in existence today had skinchangers in the past. At least as far as we know.

If this was an inherited trait - and I certainly considered that to be a possibility prior to TWoIaF - then we should had heard stories about skinchangers in quite a few noble families as well as been given hints about people who may have been clandestine skinchangers - say, some Stark king or prince who always walked around with a (dire)wolf, etc. - without them ever being publicly revealed to be such.

But we got nothing of that sort for any noble house after the Age of Heroes.

29 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

That is an interesting point.  But to be fair, there is still some limitations on what skinchangers can do or see.  It's not easy to engage in conversations with the conspirators to try and gauge the levels of guilt of the various participants, if you're running around as the kitchen mongrel.

And a bird's eye view may have certain strategic advantages but it's probably of minimal significance when it comes to the infiltration Bloodraven needed to do in Whitewalls.  

From what we can fathom, Bloodraven would have been able to observe what Maynard Plumm did observe inside the castle from a bird's eye view easily enough. It is not that Maynard was in a great position to overhear clandestine Blackfyre conspiracy talk behind closed doors.

I guess the point of him being there was to direct the dwarfs who stole the dragon egg - not so much gathering intel. He already had his troops assembled before Maynard Plumm showed up for the wedding, after all.

29 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

But I do agree, that there is no mention of Bloodraven having a totem animal.  Specifically no mention of him personally tending to ravens, to the best of my knowledge.  

Yes, and it is odd that we get very clear hints that Bloodraven did use a glamor to enter Whitewalls yet no similar hints that he might be a skinchanger.

And that's why I think he only figured out that he could actively control animals after he arrived at the Wall. That doesn't mean he couldn't have had animal dreams earlier - but I guess it means he didn't actively explore that talent earlier.

We have to keep in mind that skinchangers like Sansa and Robb and even Jon didn't do anything up to this point to actively explore their talents. And they actually did/do have animals close by they were/are very much connected to. Bloodraven not having an animal around could indicate his experiences at passive skinchanging were very rare and incoherent, featuring different animals in different situations depending on the animals he was close with or had formed a previous connection.

And considering Bloodraven's bad sorcerer reputation as well as the court of Aerys I - himself a man very much interested in magic and arcane matters - being full of sorcerers (the Grand Maester and Shiera Seastar) it would strike me as very odd if the all-powerful Hand of the King had to avoid being viewed as a skinchanger.

But we should also not forget that the general 'Bloodraven is an evil sorcerer' rumors also include the rumor that he is a skinchanger - although my guess would be that at that particular time this was more a rumor than fact.

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8 hours ago, Crazy Old Guy said:

Wait a second, you don't really need Targaryen or Valerian blood to ride a dragon.

Well, ser if you gots some dragonhorn stuffed in a dresser, best you bring it out. Because that's probably the only way somebody without Valyrian blood will be riding a dragon. 

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31 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

If this was an inherited trait - and I certainly considered that to be a possibility prior to TWoIaF - then we should had heard stories about skinchangers in quite a few noble families as well as been given hints about people who may have been clandestine skinchangers - say, some Stark king or prince who always walked around with a (dire)wolf, etc. - without them ever being publicly revealed to be such.

But it goes back to my original point.  Skinchanging was an ability that seems to be associated with uncouth savages.  It’s not something for polite society.  

In the civilized areas, among the nobles, if you bonded with animals, at most you bonded with dogs, or horses, or hawks.  And if you started to have an unnatural connection with them, you probably kept it to yourself.  Of if the Maesters got wind of it, they probably did what Luwin did, and helped suppress it.

Didn’t Euron Greyjoy grouse about this very thing?  That the darn maesters kept him from “learning how to fly”?

Even now, none of Robb’s friends or allies ever called him a warg, even if they suspected it.  And surely they must have suspected it. Only his enemies called him that.  It’s probably why the Freys cut off his head and replaced it with his wolf’s.  

Certainly no one in the royal families were fostering this ability.  Or if they were they were certainly keeping it to themselves.  

But even then, I think we’re given hints:

Quote

“A great oaf,” said the Queen of Thorns.  “His father was an oaf as well. My husband, the late Lord Luthor. Oh, I loved him well enough, don’t mistake me. A kind man, and not unskilled in the bedchamber, but an appalling oaf all the same. He managed to ride off a cliff whilst hawking. They say he was looking up at the sky and paying no mind to where his horse was taking him.”

By itself, this probably doesn’t tell us much, but when you combine it with this piece of info from Varamyr:

Quote

Birds were the worst, to hear him tell it. “Men were not meant to leave the earth. Spend too much time in the clouds and you never want to come back down again. I know skinchangers who’ve tried hawks, owls, ravens. Even in their own skins, they sit moony, staring up at the bloody blue.

It kind of makes you wonder.

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1 hour ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Well, ser if you gots some dragonhorn stuffed in a dresser, best you bring it out. Because that's probably the only way somebody without Valyrian blood will be riding a dragon. 

I think that even with the horn it is impossible.
Why would the Valyrians design an artifact that would allow non-Valyrians to control their dragons?
It doesn't make sense, we see that the Targaryen don't even need horns to bind to the dragon, 
they just give the children newborns.
I personally think that the horn is used to tame wild dragons and daenerys dragons are actually wild. 

In the series we see daenerys regain control of her dragons but we don't have any explanation of why or how. Because the plot of the horn was never introduced.
It is a wedding gift that Euron sends to daenerys, but of course like all magic with a cost it will require a lot of human sacrifice (poor victarion)

I think there are three ways to tame a wild dragon.
The first one is with a horn
the second is with spells, alys rivers probably used spells to lure the cannibal to harrenhal and give it to her son who will be a future suitor.
And the third is to do as nettles does which is very perilous because dragons can sometimes be very unpredictable

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Just now, Carrotecuite said:

the second is with spells, alys rivers probably used spells to lure the cannibal to harrenhal and give it to her son who will be a future suitor.

The Cannibal? Where'd you get that from? 

1 minute ago, Carrotecuite said:

I think that even with the horn it is impossible.

I think it's impossible or very hard only if the dragon is already bonded to a rider. Any thoughts on this opinion of mine, people? 

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23 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

The Cannibal? Where'd you get that from? 

I think it's impossible or very hard only if the dragon is already bonded to a rider. Any thoughts on this opinion of mine, people? 

 

The cannibal left dragonstone right after the dance, coinciding with the birth of aemond's son.
Later the kinguard regis groves leaves with men to retake harrenhal, they claim to have seen a dragon in harrenhall, but they don't describe the dragon they saw.

But it can only be the cannibal, because silverwing was at red lake until the end of the regency, sheepstealer with nettles in the vale.
Alys Rivers probably wanted the biggest dragon still alive for her son.
She will wait until her sons grow up to claim the throne. 
The spell and dragon blood of her son allowed this to happen. 

Daenerys herself, claims that the Valyrians used horns and spells to link with the dragons.
Alys Rivers seems to have powers quite similar to the Valyrian/Fire Priest, such as telepathy, having visions in fire and killing people on the other side of the map.

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6 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

But it goes back to my original point.  Skinchanging was an ability that seems to be associated with uncouth savages.  It’s not something for polite society.  

Oh, but the Stark kings were pretty savage occasionally, as were the Boltons and many other Northern houses. I'm with you that it would be frowned upon, but if you can use that ability to extend your power and become a conqueror then you would likely do it. And you would leave your mark in the songs and history books that way, even if you ended up becoming the villain of the story. But we don't even get that. Just nothing.

6 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

In the civilized areas, among the nobles, if you bonded with animals, at most you bonded with dogs, or horses, or hawks.  And if you started to have an unnatural connection with them, you probably kept it to yourself.  Of if the Maesters got wind of it, they probably did what Luwin did, and helped suppress it.

I'm not surprised that there were no skinchanger kings in the last couple of centuries before the Conquest. I was thinking of the earlier times when the maesters were not yet dominant everywhere in the Seven Kingdoms.

6 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

By itself, this probably doesn’t tell us much, but when you combine it with this piece of info from Varamyr:

It kind of makes you wonder.

Oh, not really. That's just a hint that Luthor died in a stupid accident. If he was that kind of skinchanger we would have more queer stories about him than that one anecdote from Olenna.

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@Frey family reunion would you consider it possible that the Warg King may have been a Blackwood ancestor? We know the Blackwoods were forced out of the North by Stark ancestors. We know they used to rule over most of the wolfswood. The wolfswood is described as extending to Dragon Sea point, where the Warg King was based. His daughters then became part of the Stark ancestry.

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23 hours ago, Hippocras said:

@Frey family reunion would you consider it possible that the Warg King may have been a Blackwood ancestor? We know the Blackwoods were forced out of the North by Stark ancestors. We know they used to rule over most of the wolfswood. The wolfswood is described as extending to Dragon Sea point, where the Warg King was based. His daughters then became part of the Stark ancestry.

I assume that name of Warg King was Gaven Greywolf. After all he was a skinchanger mentioned in myth about War of Wolves. But we know that all sons of Warg King died and we know what happened to his daughters. So he almost certainly could not be an ancestor of Blackwoods.

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11 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

I assume that name of Warg King was Gaven Greywolf. After all he was a skinchanger mentioned in myth about War of Wolves. But we know that all sons of Warg King died and we know what happened to his daughters. So he almost certainly could not be an ancestor of Blackwoods.

Probably, you are right. Still the Blackwoods were driven from the North, specifically the Wolfswood around this time, and the territories do seem to be related and overlapped. Sea Dragon Point is the western side of the Wolfswood. So maybe the Blackwoods were Greywolf allies if not the Warg King himself.

Still, I find it odd that it specifically says that the name of the Warg King is not known, since Gaven Greywolf's name IS known. 

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On 5/15/2021 at 9:08 AM, Hippocras said:

@Frey family reunion would you consider it possible that the Warg King may have been a Blackwood ancestor? We know the Blackwoods were forced out of the North by Stark ancestors. We know they used to rule over most of the wolfswood. The wolfswood is described as extending to Dragon Sea point, where the Warg King was based. His daughters then became part of the Stark ancestry.

Actually, we don't know any of that. The idea that the Blackwoods may have come from the North originally is just one legend among many. This hasn't been verified.

And since the only Blackwood skinchanger is Bloodraven there doesn't seem to be anything fancy going on with 'Blackwood genes' and stuff. There are more Stark skinchangers than Blackwood skinchangers in that story.

19 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

I assume that name of Warg King was Gaven Greywolf. After all he was a skinchanger mentioned in myth about War of Wolves. But we know that all sons of Warg King died and we know what happened to his daughters. So he almost certainly could not be an ancestor of Blackwoods.

The Warg King and Gaven Greywolf seem to be two different individuals.

19 hours ago, Hippocras said:

Probably, you are right. Still the Blackwoods were driven from the North, specifically the Wolfswood around this time, and the territories do seem to be related and overlapped. Sea Dragon Point is the western side of the Wolfswood. So maybe the Blackwoods were Greywolf allies if not the Warg King himself.

Still, I find it odd that it specifically says that the name of the Warg King is not known, since Gaven Greywolf's name IS known. 

The Warg King apparently was one of many petty kings in the age of the Hundred Kingdoms - a guy whose kingdom was Sea Dragon Point. We have no indication how large his territory was - probably not that large - nor when he ruled or where exactly the Blackwoods were based when they allegedly controlled territory in the Wolfswood.

In all that one has to consider that the Starks of old clearly were not followers of the ancient ways of the Children of the Forest or more down to earth First Men. They warred against the Children and they killed skinchangers and greenseers when they took Sea Dragon Point from the Warg King. They were more interested in building their empire than to coexist with the Children who remained in the North.

This kind of thing explains how it is that there are no greenseers in the godswood of Winterfell today.

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7 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Actually, we don't know any of that. The idea that the Blackwoods may have come from the North originally is just one legend among many. This hasn't been verified.

According to the maesters the runic records are consistent with this. That's as verified as it gets really in Westeros for things related to the age of Heroes.

 

7 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

In all that one has to consider that the Starks of old clearly were not followers of the ancient ways of the Children of the Forest or more down to earth First Men. They warred against the Children and they killed skinchangers and greenseers when they took Sea Dragon Point from the Warg King. They were more interested in building their empire than to coexist with the Children who remained in the North.

This kind of thing explains how it is that there are no greenseers in the godswood of Winterfell today.

Agreed, although very likely that integrating all of these daughters of conquest into their family line had an impact eventually on their beliefs.

 

@Lord Varys I don't really know why you are so insistent on the idea that magic in these books is completely random and bestowed by the gods on certain Chosen Ones. I really don't have the impression that is GRRM's philosophy at all. The signs really are much stronger that there is something genetic about it. Certainly other circumstances are at play as well, I do not argue with that. But ignoring the family patterns and the precedent set by dragonriding families seems like a really strange and weak position to be taking on this. 

My hunch that there is something up with the Blackwoods may turn to nothing and that is ok, but it would really be more useful to discuss where else the Starks' magic might have come from and to provide a reason why, after so much selective breeding, the Targaryen family becoming half Blackwood was apparently no big problem for dragon magic than it is to pretend these things are just random.

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On 5/15/2021 at 2:08 AM, Hippocras said:

@Frey family reunion would you consider it possible that the Warg King may have been a Blackwood ancestor? We know the Blackwoods were forced out of the North by Stark ancestors. We know they used to rule over most of the wolfswood. The wolfswood is described as extending to Dragon Sea point, where the Warg King was based. His daughters then became part of the Stark ancestry.

If I had to guess, the Warg King sailed in from up north, beyond the Wall, and set up “camp” on Sea Dragon Point. (Maybe a parallel to Aegon’s landing at the mouth of the Blackwater.)

‘But I like your idea as well.

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3 hours ago, Hippocras said:

 I don't really know why you are so insistent on the idea that magic in these books is completely random and bestowed by the gods on certain Chosen Ones. I really don't have the impression that is GRRM's philosophy at all. The signs really are much stronger that there is something genetic about it. Certainly other circumstances are at play as well, I do not argue with that. But ignoring the family patterns and the precedent set by dragonriding families seems like a really strange and weak position to be taking on this

I agree.  And to further your argument, Bloodraven, himself, might give us some evidence of this when he tells Bran, he’s watched his birth and that of Bran’s father. 

 

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5 hours ago, Hippocras said:

@Lord Varys I don't really know why you are so insistent on the idea that magic in these books is completely random and bestowed by the gods on certain Chosen Ones. I really don't have the impression that is GRRM's philosophy at all. The signs really are much stronger that there is something genetic about it. Certainly other circumstances are at play as well, I do not argue with that. But ignoring the family patterns and the precedent set by dragonriding families seems like a really strange and weak position to be taking on this. 

My hunch that there is something up with the Blackwoods may turn to nothing and that is ok, but it would really be more useful to discuss where else the Starks' magic might have come from and to provide a reason why, after so much selective breeding, the Targaryen family becoming half Blackwood was apparently no big problem for dragon magic than it is to pretend these things are just random.

My issues there are pretty clear - historically there are no Stark or Blackwood skinchangers/greenseers save one exception - Bloodraven and the present generation of Stark children.

If George wanted to sell us either as 'a magical dynasty' then he clearly failed at that, especially when he wrote a history book where he could have included Stark wargs or Blackwood skinchangers easily enough. As I said, it would have been remarkably easy to include direct or indirect clues that this or that Stark king of old was a skinchanger. And that skinchangers will use their ability to exert power and dominate others we see with Varamyr. He is one who clawed his way to the top of the food chain with his abilities, but a Stark prince born with this gift would use it in a similar manner - to control his subjects and expand his empire. And if that ever happened, history and singers wouldn't have forgotten it.

The focus on the Blackwood family as being 'special' is also kind of weird in light of the fact that the Starks are the First Men house at the core of the story. If there is a magical First Men family it should be they, not the Blackwoods. After all, the Blackwoods are, at best, just extras in the novels. They are like the Velaryons there.

And it is also kind of weird to assume that there are 'special bloodlines' among the heavily interrelated nobility of the Seven Kingdoms. Folks who don't marry their sisters or who were in Westeros since the Dawn Age are related to everybody to some degree.

I mean, if the Blackwoods were a special breed then the Brackens should be exactly the same breed, considering how heavily interrelated they are according to Hoster Blackwood. And Black Aly and Melantha are, most likely, not the first Blackwoods to marry into House Stark.

The crucial thing with the Blackwoods in the family tree seems to me more that Daenerys Targaryen is 'half-Blackwood' through her great-grandmother. This comes as a surprise, not so much that the First Men houses of Westeros intermarried with other First Men houses. But then - so far nothing in the novels indicates that Betha Blackwood being Dany's great-grandmother had any bearing on her talents and abilities.

That said - there clearly are hints that a certain 'original lifestyle' allowed folks like the crannogmen to preserve the magical traditions of the Children of the Forest and stuff. The crannogmen and wildlings seem to be the top end of that ... and the nobility who still follow the old gods the Stark and Blackwood way also are closer to this in some manner.

It seems that the problem in this manner is how magic is viewed, not how it is acquired. A person with a magical talent raised by septas and maesters is likely to suppress or ignore it, whereas a born skinchanger in a wildling environment would be handed to a skinchanger like Haggon to hone his talents.

We even see how the scions of a clearly magical dynasty like the Targaryens spearhead anti-dragon or anti-magic crusades in Aegon III and Baelor the Blessed. Culture can beat and destroy magical talents/traditions easily enough. And it is the same at the Citadel where magic is both taught and not-taught at the same time.

6 hours ago, Hippocras said:

According to the maesters the runic records are consistent with this. That's as verified as it gets really in Westeros for things related to the age of Heroes.

To be honest, I thought this was a kind of stupid idea to begin with. Originally, the old gods were honored everywhere in Westeros, so it doesn't really matter were the Blackwoods come from. If George wanted them to be interrelated with the Starks he could have just had marriage ties - like he also did with the Blackwoods and the Durrandons, for that matter. And in the end all the First Men came from Essos, so for all we know the ancestors of all the Northmen and the ancestor of all the Blackwoods could have been siblings living some 10,000 years ago.

6 hours ago, Hippocras said:

Agreed, although very likely that integrating all of these daughters of conquest into their family line had an impact eventually on their beliefs.

That doesn't seem to be the case. The really big and obvious mystery George never really addressed so far is why the hell the Northmen no longer understand and properly follow their own religion? They worship at their trees but they don't understand what they are doing. They have no greenseers, no skinchangers, no magics. Why is that?

No Andal invaders ever swept through their kingdom, no septons ever taught them to cut down their weirwood groves or cut ties with their ancient ways.

The only answer that makes sense - which is corroborated/hinted at by both the Starks warring against the Warg King and his Children of the Forest allies - and them eradicating the greenseers and skinchangers of their enemies - as well as by the crusade of the early Durrandon kings against the Children of the Forest (who took the Rainwood from them) - is that the First Men at best picked and chose what to keep of the Children of the Forest religion. They clearly didn't honor the Pact nor did they preserve the established peace with the Children - else the North and the lands beyond the Wall would be still places where the First Men and the Children lived more or less happily together.

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3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

That doesn't seem to be the case. The really big and obvious mystery George never really addressed so far is why the hell the Northmen no longer understand and properly follow their own religion? They worship at their trees but they don't understand what they are doing. They have no greenseers, no skinchangers, no magics. Why is that?

We prop up trees in our living rooms come Christmas, yet we don’t still follow the “pagan” beliefs that led to that custom.   My guess is for many in the North, having a Weirwood became less a religious symbol and more a cultural symbol.

That’s the slippery slope, when you lose the old time religion, and stop sacrificing the entrails of your enemy to your heart tree.  ;)

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2 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

If I had to guess, the Warg King sailed in from up north, beyond the Wall, and set up “camp” on Sea Dragon Point. (Maybe a parallel to Aegon’s landing at the mouth of the Blackwater.)

‘But I like your idea as well.

I'd just assume that guy was the king of the region where he lived. This was when the Starks conquered the North and dispossessed/eradicated their rivals.

2 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

I agree.  And to further your argument, Bloodraven, himself, might give us some evidence of this when he tells Bran, he’s watched his birth and that of Bran’s father.

Bloodraven seems to be watching everything. And the Starks would be of paramount importance even without magical talents considering they are the leaders of the North.

But, quite honestly, I'm pretty much open to the idea that Bloodraven (or Bran himself, if he eventually learns how to properly mess with time) somehow ensured that the Stark children all became skinchangers. From our current understanding Bloodraven likely also doctored the entire 'stag/direwolf killed each other' omen ... so who is to say it was a coincidence that there were direwolf pups for all the Stark children?

It is also possible that the gods saw to it that things go this way. The prince that was promised also isn't some kind of artificial creation. He just arrives when the War for the Dawn is coming, no matter what folks want or do.

2 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

We prop up trees in our living rooms come Christmas, yet we don’t still follow the “pagan” beliefs that led to that custom.   My guess is for many in the North, having a Weirwood became less a religious symbol and more a cultural symbol.

That’s the slippery slope, when you lose the old time religion, and stop sacrificing the entrails of your enemy to your heart tree.  ;)

Insofar as the entrails thing is concerned this might make some sense. Although that might actually be a symptom of maesters becoming dominant in the North.

That said - the parallel you make is way off. We did have our Andal invaders with the Christian taliban in antiquity which destroyed the links various cultures had with their original roots (very evident with them effectively destroying 3,000+ years of Egyptian literacy). Some cultural customs remained, but are now indeed no longer connected to their original meaning. They are either blindly followed or reinterpreted.

But in the North of Westeros we do have no such cultural breaks. Nobody ever led a cultural crusade against the old ways, nobody suppressed or destroyed knowledge and traditions, etc.

And we are talking about religious and magical traditions that really can and did make a difference in the political sphere. If you have a greenseer you can become effectively all-knowing. That is not something a sane society would want to abandon ... much less anyone like an early Stark king who might want to conquer the North by any means.

In the North weirwood groves were never targeted and destroyed like they were in the south - and one imagines wherever that happened folks also killed the greenseers who lived at/beneath those groves.

The author has to come up with an explanation why Bran had to go to some Blackwood-Targaryen freak beyond the Wall instead of just visiting with the Stark greenseer beneath Winterfell. Where is that guy? And why aren't there any left in the North?

I guess one explanation could be that the talent is exceedingly rare and human greenseers don't last as long as Children greenseers, so when a greenseer dies without having found a successor then it would be difficult to find another in the absence of a greenseer. But if a powerful royal family ever had greeseer they would do anything in their power to ensure that they retain this advantage. Those are almost divine powers, after all.

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