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Motive of the faceless man in prologue.

TargStark1

By TargStark1,
in A Feast for Crows

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TargStark1 Commoner

TargStark1

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If we say Pate is now the same faceless man from CoK, what is his motive in Old Town?

Wasn't his (faceless man) original journey taking the form of a prisoner in the black cells of Kings Landing and heading for the wall? If his original destination was actually the Wall, he was then diverted and went to Old Town. The only people to have made this change are Sam and Aemon. Could the faceless man eventually try to get to either of these? 

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Jaenara Belarys Council Member

Jaenara Belarys

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A lot of people seem to think he's after the Valyrian scrolls in the vaults or one of the books Tyrion mentions in ADWD. The books he mentions are: Blood and Fire, sometimes called The Death of Dragons, Unnatural History, and The Fires of The Freehold, a history by Galendro about the old Valyrian Freehold. 

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John Suburbs Council Member

John Suburbs

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On 5/3/2021 at 2:38 PM, TargStark1 said:

If we say Pate is now the same faceless man from CoK, what is his motive in Old Town?

Wasn't his (faceless man) original journey taking the form of a prisoner in the black cells of Kings Landing and heading for the wall? If his original destination was actually the Wall, he was then diverted and went to Old Town. The only people to have made this change are Sam and Aemon. Could the faceless man eventually try to get to either of these? 

He was in the black cells, but it's unclear if the intention was to get to the Wall. He may have been down there to kill a certain lord who had some very incriminating stories to tell about a certain Master of Coin who wanted to support Joffrey for the moment and then kill him later. Taking the black might have just been a convenient way out once that assassination became moot.

The original Pate handed over Walgrave's master key that supposedly opens any lock in the Citadel. So what the alchemist is after is anyone's guess.

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TheLastWolf Council Member

TheLastWolf

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54 minutes ago, Castellan said:

Nonsense! How can Jaqen be Gerion Lannister when Inkpots is Gerion Lannister?

 

54 minutes ago, Castellan said:

Nonsense! How can Jaqen be Gerion Lannister when Inkpots is Gerion Lannister?

Crackpot to match

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TheLastWolf Council Member

TheLastWolf

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9 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

No, no, no. You've got it all mixed up. Jaqen is Gerion who is Inkpots who is Kevan Lannister who is Tywin Lannister who is Aerys Targaryen. This is known. 

Who is George RR Martin. It is known 

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Nevets Council Member

Nevets

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On 5/3/2021 at 12:38 PM, TargStark1 said:

If we say Pate is now the same faceless man from CoK, what is his motive in Old Town?

Wasn't his (faceless man) original journey taking the form of a prisoner in the black cells of Kings Landing and heading for the wall? If his original destination was actually the Wall, he was then diverted and went to Old Town. The only people to have made this change are Sam and Aemon. Could the faceless man eventually try to get to either of these? 

I suspect he is after information about dragons, possibly the book Tyrion mentions.  Given Daenerys's rise and acquisition of dragons, plus the possibility that Euron gave them a dragon egg, I expect the FM have an interest in the subject. It's possible he could become an ally to Sam in his quest for ancient lore on the Others.  Or not.

I doubt he was purposely on his way to the Wall.  There are much easier and more reliable ways to join than riding up chained in a wagon.  The NW is not exactly picky.  If you have a penis and can walk they'll take you.  If not, they may take you anyway. 

On 5/12/2021 at 10:08 AM, John Suburbs said:

He was in the black cells, but it's unclear if the intention was to get to the Wall. He may have been down there to kill a certain lord who had some very incriminating stories to tell about a certain Master of Coin who wanted to support Joffrey for the moment and then kill him later. Taking the black might have just been a convenient way out once that assassination became moot.

The original Pate handed over Walgrave's master key that supposedly opens any lock in the Citadel. So what the alchemist is after is anyone's guess.

I don't think he was in the black cells to kill Ned, or anyone else.  There are easier ways to do that, as well.  Such as simply taking the face of a guard.

I think he probably was caught doing something or being somewhere he shouldn't have been.  It happens, even to the best.  And from Arya's chapters in Braavos, I'm beginning to suspect the FM's reputation is, shall we say, a bit inflated.

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Jaenara Belarys Council Member

Jaenara Belarys

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4 hours ago, Nevets said:

I think he probably was caught doing something or being somewhere he shouldn't have been.  It happens, even to the best.  And from Arya's chapters in Braavos, I'm beginning to suspect the FM's reputation is, shall we say, a bit inflated.

Why is it inflated? They seem to be all that everybody claims they are. Changing faces, discreet assassination....

4 hours ago, Nevets said:

I don't think he was in the black cells to kill Ned, or anyone else.  There are easier ways to do that, as well.  Such as simply taking the face of a guard.

Maybe he got caught trying to get into the Fourth Level of the dungeons? I've read threads speculating about what's down there. 

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Nevets Council Member

Nevets

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37 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Why is it inflated? They seem to be all that everybody claims they are. Changing faces, discreet assassination....

Maybe he got caught trying to get into the Fourth Level of the dungeons? I've read threads speculating about what's down there. 

In other words, he got caught being someplace he shouldn't be, which is what I suggested. 

In truth, I don't think GRRM knew or cared what he was doing there.  He's there to advance Arya's story.

They are obviously very good at what they do, although I wasn't overly impressed with the insurance man episode.  But there seems to be this impression among readers that they are super duper, invincible ninja types, which I don't see at all being the case. 

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John Suburbs Council Member

John Suburbs

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On 5/19/2021 at 1:08 PM, Nevets said:

I don't think he was in the black cells to kill Ned, or anyone else.  There are easier ways to do that, as well.  Such as simply taking the face of a guard.

I think he probably was caught doing something or being somewhere he shouldn't have been.  It happens, even to the best.  And from Arya's chapters in Braavos, I'm beginning to suspect the FM's reputation is, shall we say, a bit inflated.

Yeah, I'm just speculating. Littlefinger wants Ned dead before he tells the story about their little conversation just before Ned was arrested, and he would have the means and probably the contacts -- through his friends at the Iron Bank -- to hire an FM. And in order to take the face of a guard in the black cells, one would have to get close enough to one in order to kill him discretely, which means getting into the black cells to begin with. So maybe taking a guard was the next step in the plan . . . ? Again, I'm speculating.

But I don't think the FM's reputation is unwarranted. If they were amateurs they wouldn't have the reputation they do. LF talked the small council out of hiring an FM to kill Dany, telling Ned that if he hadn't done that she'd be dead. All the men on the Titan's Daughter make sure Arya knows their names, which they wouldn't do if the FM were of little account. Jaquen seemed highly capable of killing discretely. So I'm curious as to what makes you think they are not as capable as they seem.

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Castellan Council Member

Castellan

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I've lost track of whose head it is.

Back on FM, the only thing that I think is obvious is that he killed Balon with Euron footing the bill. (I am too lazy to make a theory with two faceless men in Westeros.) His journey with Yoren could have been for the same reason as Arya's - just a way of getting out of Kings Landing and heading north for a while. He wasn't necessarily going to the Wall. (Although my idea that his skills would extend to escaping whenever he wanted is disproved by the fact that without Arya's axe he probably would have burned to death.)

A subsequent commission could have sent him to the Citadel. If he was originally employed by Euron, that might imply he is doing something for Euron. At least Euron is someone who is likely to have an interest in the Citadel and it's knowledge, considering his ship is decorated with holy men and mages, whoever he can collect, and he believes he is going to become a God. Perhaps he wants books, or perhaps he wants to wipe out the opposition.

 

 

 

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