Jump to content
Jaenara Belarys

Daenerys Mistakes in Slaver's Bay

Recommended Posts

Now, @divica suggested that I open a thread pointing out mistakes in Dany's rule of Meereen, so I decided to oblige. This is my first thread (but far from my first post), so please tell me about any mistakes. 

1. Hostages. Get older hostages, and be prepared to actually do the deed. Also, don't get TOO attached to said hostages, since you don't want the fondness to get in the way.

2. Astapor. The reason your council was overthrown so easily was that it had no force to back it up, thus making it extremely easy to overthrow. Leave 100-500 or even a thousand Unsullied troops to help back up the rule and put down any insurrections with force

3. Yunkai. You should've left some more troops, taken much of their wealth and marched.

4. Marriage to Hizdahr. Why marry to solidify your rule over a city you won't be staying in? 

5. You are their queen. You, not them, rule this city. So do NOT let the Green Grace walk all over you by effectively forcing you to wear a tokar. 

6. Reopen the pits. This is a good way of producing money, and it helps keep the population more tranquil. It also provides a good way of getting rid of criminals.

7. Why in the holy hell are you making your Unsullied take care of sick people? They're your best troops and you potentially just let the bloody flux into the city. 

8. This is a little callous, but let them Astapori die. They're a drain on resources. Weigh their lives against the lives and freedom of each and every one of the freedmen you brought.

Thoughts anyone? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Oh and one more thing. Kick Reznak off the council. 

Edited by Jaenara Belarys

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Oh. That's true too. But she does need experience.  What do you think about what I said?

Edited by Jaenara Belarys

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also if she marched to help Astapor, they would have crushed the slavers and avoided the siege (Astapor would have won if not for the sell sword companies)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Oh. That's true too. But she does need experience.  What do you think about what I said?

I agree for the most part. you make a lot of great points. I do think there are merits in marrying hizdar (or someone of similar status), but it was practically a coerced marriage. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Targaryeninkingslanding said:

I agree for the most part. you make a lot of great points. I do think there are merits in marrying hizdar (or someone of similar status), but it was practically a coerced marriage. 

It's a useless marriage. Why marry if you're going to leave? Also, you say you agree "for the most part". What don't you agree with?

Edited by Jaenara Belarys

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I think one of the potential uses to such a marriage is creating a vested interest in a portion of the Meereen nobility. she does not need to win them all, just enough to create friction between noble houses. the error i think lies more in that she married a person with the whole (or at least majority) of the nobility behind him, legitimizing a anti-dany faction into power. If she had chosen another she could then place them in a position to control meereen while she is away.

But I do agree that it was a poor choice to stay if her ultimate goal is westeros. the two positions are too far to be maintained by a single ruler effectively.

Dany wanted to make the people of Meereen less horrible, and i think she has some guilt for what befell astapor after she left. she doesn't want to leave a bunch of people she feel responsible for liberating to be returned to slavery or to die horribly. she can't save astapor any more, but she thinks she can keep her children in meereen safe as long as she stays (i assume)

Edited by Targaryeninkingslanding
spelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Targaryeninkingslanding said:

Dany wanted to make the people of Meereen less horrible, and i think she has some guilt for what befell astapor after she left. she doesn't want to leave a bunch of people she feel responsible for liberating to be returned to slavery or to die horribly. she can't save astapor any more, but she thinks she cane keep her children in meereen safe as long as she stays (i assume)

That's why I said she should've left a force of Unsullied. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

That's why I said she should've left a force of Unsullied. 

agreed. she assumed that Astapor would have some degree of self determined autonomy and naively left the astapori alone. I would argue though, that at that point she was planning to go to westeros still. it was more of a mistake in hindsight and based on her of false belief that no one would try to undue her work.

she is but a young girl and knows little on the ways of war, or so she is fond of saying. ironically its kind of true.

Edited by Targaryeninkingslanding
s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

1. Hostages. Get older hostages, and be prepared to actually do the deed. Also, don't get TOO attached to said hostages, since you don't want the fondness to get in the way.

I disagree. Mercy is never a mistake.

Quote

2. Astapor. The reason your council was overthrown so easily was that it had no force to back it up, thus making it extremely easy to overthrow. Leave 100-500 or even a thousand Unsullied troops to help back up the rule and put down any insurrections with force

And see those men lost to whatever chaos erupts in her wake?

I think the real issue is one of goals... what is she trying to accomplish? Toppling governments is one thing, ruling quite another. But trying to half do both is a recipe for disaster. Without clear goals its hard to even recommend a solution.

Quote

3. Yunkai. You should've left some more troops, taken much of their wealth and marched.

Again, spending more and more of her limited manpower on each conquest is not a good idea if she still has designs of leaving entirely.

And, unless you are willing to stay and fix things in the long term, one should think hard before breaking what is already there.

Quote

4. Marriage to Hizdahr. Why marry to solidify your rule over a city you won't be staying in? 

Great question.

Quote

5. You are their queen. You, not them, rule this city. So do NOT let the Green Grace walk all over you by effectively forcing you to wear a tokar. 

Again, back to the goal here. If you are going to stay and actually be a queen, then it's worth trying to fit in. If you are just passing through, then realize what you are doing and act accordingly. Trying to fit in and also leave is a recipe for disaster.

Quote

6. Reopen the pits. This is a good way of producing money, and it helps keep the population more tranquil. It also provides a good way of getting rid of criminals.

Again, what goal are you trying to accomplish? Conquest? Is this just a stepping stone to Westeros? Or is actual progress and change for the good the goal? Because something like slave fighting pits might make practical sense for those in power, but you are gonna have trouble justifying them to me morally.

This is a theme we see repeated in this series. Morality vs practicality. The ends vs the means.

Quote

7. Why in the holy hell are you making your Unsullied take care of sick people? They're your best troops and you potentially just let the bloody flux into the city. 

If your goal is to help people, there were probably better ways to go about it. If the goal was just to win the war then it's absolutely a mistake.

Quote

8. This is a little callous, but let them Astapori die. They're a drain on resources. Weigh their lives against the lives and freedom of each and every one of the freedmen you brought.

Ahhhh, and here in, as the Davos would tell us, lies the rub...

"What is the life of one bastard boy against a kingdom?"
"Everything," said Davos, softly.

A Storm of Swords - Davos V

Edited by Mourning Star

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

And see those men lost to whatever chaos erupts in her wake?

 

The Unsullied are the greatest foot in the world. And if needed, you can always leave your freedmen companies to defend Meereen and come down on Astapor with fire and blood. Fitting for a Targaryen. 

30 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

I disagree. Mercy is never a mistake.

 

Those were harder times. It requires a hard solution. 

30 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

Again, back to the goal here. If you are going to stay and actually be a queen, then it's worth trying to fit in. If you are just passing through, then realize what you are doing and act accordingly. Trying to fit in and also leave is a recipe for disaster.

 

You do not need the minority. You need the majority. And the majority is freedmen and lowborn. 

30 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

If your goal is to help people, there were probably better ways to go about it. If the goal was just to win the war then it's absolutely a mistake.

 

Probably, you could find a different way. But you don't have the time to figure it out, and your efforts will be destroyed by potentially infect the city. Rot must be cut out, lest it spread. 

30 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

Ahhhh, and here in, as the Davos would tell us, lies the rub...

 

Would you rather save a few hundred, or tens of thousands?

Edited by Jaenara Belarys

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

I disagree. Mercy is never a mistake.

I don't know. what's the use of a hostage of you don't use the hostage as a hostage. long term it may endear future nobility to her but short term its not effective as the deterrent its supposed to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Would you rather save a few hundred, or tens of thousands?

This is a false dichotomy. Life is not made up of black and white choices like you are presenting here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Targaryeninkingslanding said:

I don't know. what's the use of a hostage of you don't use the hostage as a hostage. long term it may endear future nobility to her but short term its not effective as the deterrent its supposed to be.

Maybe the real answer is you shouldn't be taking hostages at all then.

It comes back to the question of justice, and another major theme in this series: It's wrong to punish children for the sins of their parents.

Edited by Mourning Star

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Mourning Star said:

This is a false dichotomy. Life is not made up of black and white choices like you are presenting here.

Answer the question, please. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...