Impeachment for Jon and Aerys

[Jaenara Belarys]

6 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

The Janos Slynt stanning never ceases to amaze me.

I don't feel bad for Janos Slynt. No sympathy for him. None. He can go burn in seven hells. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

4 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

I don't feel bad for Janos Slynt. No sympathy for him. None. He can go burn in seven hells. 

If you feel like he was murdered, then you have to by default because that was definitely not murder.

[Roswell]

On 5/8/2021 at 11:09 AM, H Wadsey Longfellow said:

 A procedure should have been in place for the removal of incompetent and destructive leaders like Aerys Targaryen and Jon Snow.  Further tragedy might have been prevented if Bowen Marsh and the watch had impeached Jon Snow before he sent Mance Rayder on his mission to get Arya.  The best time to impeach Jon was right after he killed Janos Slynt.  Removing Jon from office at that time would have prevented most of the damage that he created for the watch.

That would have avoided further problems.  But they did not have cause and proof at the time. 

Jon had just killed a fellow brother.  They were not going to test his will at that moment.  He was no longer in a mood to accept opposing opinions, let alone a request to step down. Jon was nuts. 

If an LC can be voted in, he should be removable by vote.  Jon beat them to the punch and made it impossible to hold him accountable for starting a fight with Ramsay.  He had the wildlings in the palm of his hands and the good men of the watch were outnumbered.  They had to assassinate the jackass.  Calling for him to stand trial or anything of the sort would have gotten them killed.  Poor Marsh and the other men were forced to commit an assassination to stop Jon from making further blunders. 

[The Commentator]

On 5/10/2021 at 12:27 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

Understandable with that ****ing creep Ramsay Snow. 

It doesn’t matter. Arya was no longer Jon’s priority. He violated the rules by sending Mance to help Arya. Not only that, it was unjust to spare Mance after he killed Slynt for much less.  I agree with Bowen’s decision to get rid of Jon.  Jon was not going to step down. 

[Jaenara Belarys]

On 5/14/2021 at 8:16 PM, Universal Sword Donor said:

If you feel like he was murdered, then you have to by default because that was definitely not murder.

He would've looked weak if he did not do something to Janos. Janos was trying to screw stuff up, disobeyed orders, and mocked his lord commander. For those crimes, and for being an idiot, he lost his head. 

1 hour ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

It doesn’t matter. Arya was no longer Jon’s priority. He violated the rules by sending Mance to help Arya. Not only that, it was unjust to spare Mance after he killed Slynt for much less.  I agree with Bowen’s decision to get rid of Jon.  Jon was not going to step down. 

Put yourself in Jon's place. You're fond of your little sister, you hear that she's going to be married to a creep that likes flaying peasant girls, what would YOU honestly do? You cannot tell me you would do nothing, that is a lie. 

[The Lord of the Crossing]

Going forward, if the Night's Watch survives, they will set up an impeachment process to remove a dysfunctional leader.  That or set a term limit to the position of lord commander.  Henceforth, this sad affair will be known as Jongate.  The new law which allows for the orderly removal of a lord commander will forever be associated with the scandal known as Jongate. 

[Mister Smikes]

When I read medieval themed fiction, I like to retreat into the past.  I don't like to see modern political terms like "impeachment" thrown around.  If there was a medieval or ancient analogue to voting out a leader, look up and use that term.  Otherwise, I guess we're stuck with armed rebellion or assassination.

[Jaenara Belarys]

8 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

When I read medieval themed fiction, I like to retreat into the past.  I don't like to see modern political terms like "impeachment" thrown around.  If there was a medieval or ancient analogue to voting out a leader, look up and use that term.  Otherwise, I guess we're stuck with armed rebellion or assassination.

. Don't bring in modern stuff for a medieval story. 

[Bowen 747]

On 5/8/2021 at 12:34 PM, Moiraine Sedai said:

They were scared. He just executed a man for a minor offense. It's reasonable for them to fear Jon.  Given Jon's mental state, yes, he would have killed them if they had called a meeting to vote him out of his job.  Assassination was the only way to stop Jon from further dragging the NW into war.  

Murder was the only way to get rid of Jon.  He was too stubborn to step down.  

[The Lord of the Crossing]

On 5/16/2021 at 8:18 AM, Roswell said:

That would have avoided further problems.  But they did not have cause and proof at the time. 

Jon had just killed a fellow brother.  They were not going to test his will at that moment.  He was no longer in a mood to accept opposing opinions, let alone a request to step down. Jon was nuts. 

If an LC can be voted in, he should be removable by vote.  Jon beat them to the punch and made it impossible to hold him accountable for starting a fight with Ramsay.  He had the wildlings in the palm of his hands and the good men of the watch were outnumbered.  They had to assassinate the jackass.  Calling for him to stand trial or anything of the sort would have gotten them killed.  Poor Marsh and the other men were forced to commit an assassination to stop Jon from making further blunders. 

That's why Bowen Marsh was crying.  He dedicated his life to protecting Westeros and following the rules only to be forced to do an assassination because of a crazy Lord Commander Snow. 

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

On 5/8/2021 at 11:09 AM, H Wadsey Longfellow said:

 A procedure should have been in place for the removal of incompetent and destructive leaders like Aerys Targaryen and Jon Snow.  Further tragedy might have been prevented if Bowen Marsh and the watch had impeached Jon Snow before he sent Mance Rayder on his mission to get Arya.  The best time to impeach Jon was right after he killed Janos Slynt.  Removing Jon from office at that time would have prevented most of the damage that he created for the watch.

Jon's choice to execute Janos was unethical and corrupt but it was not enough to vote him out.  Removing a commander is a very serious matter.  It's when he let Mance off the hook that made him unfit for command.  The brotherhood would have relieved him of his duties if they had known.  Aemon would approve of the removal if he had been present.  

[SeanF]

On 5/19/2021 at 4:30 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

He would've looked weak if he did not do something to Janos. Janos was trying to screw stuff up, disobeyed orders, and mocked his lord commander. For those crimes, and for being an idiot, he lost his head. 

Put yourself in Jon's place. You're fond of your little sister, you hear that she's going to be married to a creep that likes flaying peasant girls, what would YOU honestly do? You cannot tell me you would do nothing, that is a lie. 

I'd be pretty alarmed to have a leader who learns of his sister being raped and tortured, and concludes she can go f*ck herself. 

I imagine most of these Ramsay was right/Bowen was right/Janos was a martyr threads are just people playing devil's advocate.

[Jaenara Belarys]

8 hours ago, SeanF said:

I'd be pretty alarmed to have a leader who learns of his sister being raped and tortured, and concludes she can go f*ck herself. 

 

Especially because he thinks that it's the real Arya. And the real Arya is only eleven. fArya is only, what, 2 years older?

8 hours ago, SeanF said:

I imagine most of these Ramsay was right/Bowen was right/Janos was a martyr threads are just people playing devil's advocate.

Who the **** says that son of *****  Ramsay is ever right? 

[Quoth the raven,]

18 hours ago, SeanF said:

I imagine most of these Ramsay was right/Bowen was right/Janos was a martyr threads are just people playing devil's advocate.

Jon was wrong to spare Mance and send the wildlings to find Arya.  Just because you don't find him wrong does not mean other fans do not.  I find Jon was wrong to even insert himself between Ramsay and Arya.  

[SeanF]

13 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Especially because he thinks that it's the real Arya. And the real Arya is only eleven. fArya is only, what, 2 years older?

Who the **** says that son of *****  Ramsay is ever right? 

Oh, sweet summer child.

[Nathan Stark]

14 hours ago, Quoth the raven, said:

Jon was wrong to spare Mance and send the wildlings to find Arya.  Just because you don't find him wrong does not mean other fans do not.  I find Jon was wrong to even insert himself between Ramsay and Arya.  

Jon did not spare Mance; Melisandre and Stannis did. Mance was their prisoner, not Jon's. Jon sending wildlings to save his sister was a bad move, but if you think that choosing to save your sister from a psychotic sadist is wrong, I have serious questions about your version of what's moral.

[Jaenara Belarys]

14 hours ago, SeanF said:

Oh, sweet summer child.

"Ser Ilyn, bring me his head!"Well, I hope Jon, if he turns out to be a Targaryen, does not stand in the way of the rightful queen, Daenerys Targaryen. If he does, Dany can simply immolate him. Very easy. 

18 hours ago, Quoth the raven, said:

Jon was wrong to spare Mance and send the wildlings to find Arya.  Just because you don't find him wrong does not mean other fans do not.  I find Jon was wrong to even insert himself between Ramsay and Arya.  

Excuse me? What is wrong with you? What, you wouldn't save your sister from a sadistic little piece of maggoty ****? 

[Pontius Pilate]

On 5/8/2021 at 11:09 AM, H Wadsey Longfellow said:

 A procedure should have been in place for the removal of incompetent and destructive leaders like Aerys Targaryen and Jon Snow.  Further tragedy might have been prevented if Bowen Marsh and the watch had impeached Jon Snow before he sent Mance Rayder on his mission to get Arya.  The best time to impeach Jon was right after he killed Janos Slynt.  Removing Jon from office at that time would have prevented most of the damage that he created for the watch.

Jon could have been removed for improper conduct for killing Janos Slynt and definitely should have been removed for his preferential treatment of Mance Rayder.  Jon was at fault all the way.  Impeachment is the right treatment for a reasonable commander.  Which Jon was not.  Jon is not going to get demoted without a fight because he was using the resources of the watch to continue his family fight with the enemies.  Daggers were the only way to stop Jon.

[Lion of the Watch]

1 hour ago, Pontius Pilate said:

Jon could have been removed for improper conduct for killing Janos Slynt and definitely should have been removed for his preferential treatment of Mance Rayder.  Jon was at fault all the way.  Impeachment is the right treatment for a reasonable commander.  Which Jon was not.  Jon is not going to get demoted without a fight because he was using the resources of the watch to continue his family fight with the enemies.  Daggers were the only way to stop Jon

Janos is executed because of insubordination, everyone in the hall heard it, even in modern times commanders execute(sometimes torture) people when they defy their authority, also he did not use preferential treatment to Mance, he was just given little choice by Melisandre since she planned her to rescue "Arya" the moment he found out he is alive, if you found out your little sister you adore married to a skin playing psychopath don't tell me you won't do anything about it,

[SeanF]

12 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

"Ser Ilyn, bring me his head!"Well, I hope Jon, if he turns out to be a Targaryen, does not stand in the way of the rightful queen, Daenerys Targaryen. If he does, Dany can simply immolate him. Very easy. 

Excuse me? What is wrong with you? What, you wouldn't save your sister from a sadistic little piece of maggoty ****? 

Perhaps they're on bad terms with their sisters.