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Dogs III - the return of the furbaby thread


Which Tyler
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I've had a situation with Loki (year and a half old male lagotto romagnolo I mentioned earlier) last weekend. We were walking along the river, he played with dogs along the way, ran around with 6-7 of them for 10-15 minutes and when that group dispersed we continued on our way. A minute or so after that, another dog approached us. It was a spitz who was off leash and, with hindsight, looked a bit flustered but I didn't pick up on that at the moment. I took the leash of Loki, thinking they'd play. Within seconds, the other dog started growling and tried to bite Loki's hind legs. In a split second, Loki jumped on him and they fought for a couple of seconds which was how long it took me to get Loki. Loki got off without a scratch, but the other dog was a bit blooded, his nose or cheek or something like that, not throat or anything life threatening.

Funny thing is that, right after I took Loki away, and was going over in my head what happened and analysing if I did something wrong or if Loki did something wrong, this other dog's owner immediately started telling me how my dog's aggressive and how I shouldn't let him walk around off leash. I was so dumbstruck by complete lack of awareness about what just happened and his complete confidence that his dog was the victim that I just asked if the dog was ok and after they said he is, I just walked away. It was crystal clear that there would be no getting to the bottom of what happened and what we can do to make sure it doesn't happen again so I decided not to waste my energy.

Ever since then, I've been extra careful when other dogs are around, kept a close eye on Loki and he hasn't done anything even remotely similar. It goes without saying he's never attacked other dogs before. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying my dog is perfect or anything like that. He does have one dog he doesn't like (later I found out that a few other dogs in the neighbourhood share Loki's sentiment) and the two of them have growled and barked at each other were a couple of cases of growling here and there, but it never got physical and he always reacted to command to stop.

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I've never heard of them until a couple of years ago when we ran into one while walking along the river in my neighbourhood. Fortunately, we were with my wife's cousin and her husband and he told us his father has a female he breeds from time to time and gave us a lot of info about the breed. We loved what we heard and told him to let us now the next time his father's dog has puppies. I always joke that Loki was the third Lagotto I've ever seen and now there are so many in our neighbourhood that we see three of them on every long walk we take.

It's a great dog by all accounts so far, and I've had him for a year and four months. Quiet, playful, great with kids (I have a 4 year old daughter, plus a lot of kids of family and friends), he's not shedding (though you do need to have him groomed every 3-4 months) or drooling... Requires about 1 hour walking a day, plus a couple more shorter strolls to do his business, so I would recommend the breed to everyone who can fit that into their schedule. They love water, so if you have a river or a lake nearby they'll love it. They are most "famous" for hunting truffles.

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Provide me with some advice, please. How do you make a dog stop scratching the door at 4am? 

Ideas tried: 

-ignore him

- feed him in the evening so he doesn’t get hungry

- leave door unlocked so he can let himself out to do his business

- leave door open so he doesn’t even need to let himself out (fortunately the weather is mild enough for this now) 

- get up at 4, feed him to shut him up, be like a zombie all day, resent the dog, expect change behavior - quite obviously this is the practice I wish to exchange for a more effective one

Further ideas being entertained: 

- feed dog in the evening, leave door unlocked, keep ignoring him 

- feed dog in the evening, leave door unlocked, add negative consequence (aka get up at 4am to push head down by scruff and angrily tell off) 

- … any other thoughts you might have…? 

Big thanks! 

Edited by RhaenysBee
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1 hour ago, RhaenysBee said:

Provide me with some advice, please. How do you make a dog stop scratching the door at 4am? 

Ideas tried: 

-ignore him

- feed him in the evening so he doesn’t get hungry

- leave door unlocked so he can let himself out to do his business

- leave door open so he doesn’t even need to let himself out (fortunately the weather is mild enough for this now) 

- get up at 4, feed him to shut him up, be like a zombie all day, resent the dog, expect change behavior - quite obviously this is the practice I wish to exchange for a more effective one

Further ideas being entertained: 

- feed dog in the evening, leave door unlocked, keep ignoring him 

- feed dog in the evening, leave door unlocked, add negative consequence (aka get up at 4am to push head down by scruff and angrily tell off) 

- … any other thoughts you might have…? 

Big thanks! 

First of all, how old is the dog? Kind of a general rule of thumb is that the dog can last as many hours as he is months old without peeing/pooping (obviously, capped at some point). If he's scratching the door to go out and do his business, when's the last time he usually does it in the evening? Could you take him out later in the evening to avoid this at 4AM?

Is this recent behaviour? Could it be that the dog has some sort of infection or a cold that would cause him to need to do his business more often?

If the reason for his behaviour is not medical/physiological, I'd definitely try to avoid doing anything that would encourage this kind of behaviour. In my opinion, this is a prime example of undesirable behaviour and I'd want to make sure to let the dog knew he's not supposed to do it.

What would you do if your dog was chewing on the furniture, or tearing your pillows or slippers or whatever? You'd scold/discipline/punish him in some way. It must be pointed out that I'm not advocating beating the dog or anything like that. I don't believe in that way of raising anyone, dogs included. Still, you must have a method you use to let him know he shouldn't do something. Use that.

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2 hours ago, 3CityApache said:

How come leaving the door open doesn't help? He keeps scratching the open door?

One of mine.

No, he’s scratching the door that leads to the house. He sleeps in the garage because it’s heated but he has access to the garden (through the unlocked door) to get in and out to do his business as he likes. (Except when it drops below 5C at night, then the garden door is locked so they don’t get a cold if they open it) 

2 hours ago, baxus said:

First of all, how old is the dog? Kind of a general rule of thumb is that the dog can last as many hours as he is months old without peeing/pooping (obviously, capped at some point). If he's scratching the door to go out and do his business, when's the last time he usually does it in the evening? Could you take him out later in the evening to avoid this at 4AM?

He‘s nearly 4 (years old). Not that anybody expects him to last 48 hours without peeing. They “go to bed” around 9pm, but as explained above, for most of the year when the weather allows, the door to access the garden is unlocked so he can let himself out to do his business. 

2 hours ago, baxus said:

Is this recent behaviour? Could it be that the dog has some sort of infection or a cold that would cause him to need to do his business more often?

Quite recent, couple weeks. He had 2-3 accidents, when we thought the same. Then the weather got milder, now his garden door is unlocked, he does go out to do his business when he likes and still scratches the door, presumably for an excessively early breakfast. He used to steal apples from the shed, which got fixed so now he doesn’t have access to a free snack, which may contribute to the acting up. 

2 hours ago, baxus said:

the reason for his behaviour is not medical/physiological, I'd definitely try to avoid doing anything that would encourage this kind of behaviour. In my opinion, this is a prime example of undesirable behaviour and I'd want to make sure to let the dog knew he's not supposed to do it.

Yeah, I agree, I do believe in positive reinforcement but also in its limits. Sometimes it’s just gotta be a negative kita.

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50 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

"He sleeps in the garage."

Well, there's your problem. Dogs are social animals. Making him sleep in the garage is straight-up cruelty.

 

Come onnnnnnn now. He sleeps in the garage with two other dogs, the same way he had done his entire life. Somehow he started to feel this arrangement isn’t social enough now?

50 minutes ago, 3CityApache said:

Maybe he just wants to be with people and it has nothing to do with his physical needs.

I get that, he can be, and he is, just not at 4am.  :dunno: 

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9 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

Come onnnnnnn now. He sleeps in the garage with two other dogs, the same way he had done his entire life.

Well, you didn't say that. As far as I could tell, he was being locked alone in the garage at night.

 

 

Edited by Spockydog
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1 minute ago, Spockydog said:

Well, you didn't say that. As far as I could tell, he was being locked alone in the garage at night.

 

 

I checked back because I thought it was in my post at some point, but I only found the plural pronoun, so I probably cut back the text for length :lol: edits. 

No, he’s not alone, they all sleep there, he even lets Miss Molly on his mat sometimes and snuggles with her. The door is locked for him in winter because he doesn’t really have an undercoat and needs to be kept warm. Normally they can all hold their business till morning, when they are let out and he gets his jacket on. Now that the weather is mild, it’s okay if he lets himself out sooner because he doesn’t need a jacket anymore and the garage rooms don’t cool down significantly from the draught and the others have thick winter furs so they don’t get cold either. 

One thing I’ve noticed is that he seems slightly leaner than usual, which is not a surprise with the increased amount of exercise in the nice weather, so maybe we’ll try upping his food portion and time it better, in case his stomach gets rumbly at 4. 

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2 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

He's with his fur-pack at night. Lovely. :D

Is he thirsty all the time? With the weight loss, diabetes might be a factor. 

Kolo peeing indoors was the first sign of her diabetes. Poor wee thing. 

 

I haven’t noticed that, but will keep a close look. He had babesia in December and had to have a recheck blood panel in mid January, which was all clear. I suppose they would have noticed if his blood sugar was off then. Will double check for this the next time he sees the vet. 

Is Kolo still with you? 

2 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

I'd love to have three dogs. 

In my experience an even number is better. Whenever we had 2 instead of 1 or 4 instead of 3, it was always a happier balance. How many do you have now? 

 

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8 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

Is Kolo still with you?

 

No, we lost her two years ago. I still miss her terribly.

We have Maggie now. She's a Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier, and the wildest dog I've ever had. In a sweet, jumpy, overly-friendly way.

She's an absolute sweetheart.

 

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