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NBA Playoffs - Play In? PLAY-IN It Cool

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56 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

Im very glad you mention CP3, because I think that is actually one of the bigger problems here: many players don't really take control over their careers.

Unlike a guy like LeBron or KD, too many players sign long extensions and put the power in owners' hands. I would like to see more guys like Dame and Giannis sign 4-year deals they can opt-out after. If they win with another team they can make up the money "lost" via sponsorships and such.

I would argue that the reason why Chris Paul will most likely retire without a ring is not because of a lack of skill, mental game or killer instinct, the man has all of that in spades. It's because he never took control of his career. He always got traded, signed extensions with the teams he got traded to and gave management all the power. Now imagine if years back he had signed a smaller deal and then a year or two later an opportunity came up for him to sign with Milwauckee and play alongside Giannis? Or earlier, maybe sign up with the Warriors before 2015. He could have done all of this if he just didn't sign those extentions.

:dunno:

I don't want to get into player agency, but I don't think that's necessarily a good idea. Remember all the flack KD took for going to the Warriors? Or LeBron, Wade and Bosh at Miami? And if everyone did it, the landscape would be different in the first place.

Also, I don't remember the timeline now, but the Bucks probably had an opportunity to get Paul. They chose Holiday. And Paul might already have one if his hamstring didn't give out and Harden becoming Cinderella after midnight. And again, the Warrior's weren't favourites going into their first title. Why would he join them? And even if he did, where would he and his salary fit? Its not like he's Danny Green* making a midrange(?) salary and being the fourth or fifth option.

Anyway, I'm just pointing out that there aren't enough accolades to go around for deserving players. Someone's always going to draw the short straw. 

*If the Sixers win, Danny Green's getting his third consecutive ring on a new team. :stillsick:

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CP3 shares a lot of the blame for not winning that ring though, although much of that was because of bad health rather than bad play.  The Clippers teams of the mid-teens were quite talented, and yet they lost a 3-1 lead to an underwhelming rockets team in 2015.  Likewise when he went to Houston, if he stays healthy there's a good chance they could have knocked off the warriors superteam.

 

Switching gears, this is the first time really ever that LeBron looks beaten down and old from the grid of playoff basketball.  For fifteen plus years, when other teams were banged up and tired, LeBron looked fresh night after night.  Not anymore.  He doesn't look nearly as good as he was earlier this season when Davis first went down, or during last season's playoff run.  It's partially injury, but it's also just too much basketball in a single year for a man in his late thirties.  It was bound to happen eventually, but still sad to see it. He had been a joy to watch.

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Posted (edited)

Shocker. Ainge quits and is replaced by Stevens, new head coach to be hired.

 

 

Edited by Proudfeet

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1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

...Switching gears, this is the first time really ever that LeBron looks beaten down and old from the grid of playoff basketball.  For fifteen plus years, when other teams were banged up and tired, LeBron looked fresh night after night.  Not anymore.  He doesn't look nearly as good as he was earlier this season when Davis first went down, or during last season's playoff run.  It's partially injury, but it's also just too much basketball in a single year for a man in his late thirties.  It was bound to happen eventually, but still sad to see it. He had been a joy to watch.

The Covid-driven schedule changes and his injuries have really messed his usual preparation activity / process for the playoffs, so he really does look his age this year.

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17 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

The Covid-driven schedule changes and his injuries have really messed his usual preparation activity / process for the playoffs, so he really does look his age this year.

Yup.  He's also another year older, which cannot be put off forever.  But watching Lebron in this Suns series, he really doesn't look like the man we have grown so accustomed to seeing.  Lebron, Destroyer of Worlds, may be gone forever :(

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Proudfeet said:

:dunno:

I don't want to get into player agency, but I don't think that's necessarily a good idea. Remember all the flack KD took for going to the Warriors? Or LeBron, Wade and Bosh at Miami? And if everyone did it, the landscape would be different in the first place.

 

Doesn't matter. At all.

When people in 10 or 20 years look back at this time they won't care or remember all of the controversy surrounding guys leaving for better pastures.

Hell, folks have already forgottten about 'The Decision'. The only thing folks will remember are the rings and trophies. Success has a way of making people forget.

Edited by Red Tiger

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4 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

What would they trade for him? Schroder is a FA after the season, Kuzma's value has eroded and I don't think they control many of their picks over the next handful of seasons.

Can't they just do the blockbuster deal, a la Garnett in 2007? Quantity, not quality.

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20 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

Can't they just do the blockbuster deal, a la Garnett in 2007? Quantity, not quality.

I don't think so.  If Dame made some demand that he go to LAL, then maybe, but otherwise there's no question that other teams could make a better offer than the Lakers could.  The Pelicans, for example, have draft picks and young assets, and a Zion + Dame combo could be enough to contend. 

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1 hour ago, Proudfeet said:

Shocker. Ainge quits and is replaced by Stevens, new head coach to be hired.

 

 

Surprised the shit out of me. I had gotten into my car for a quick grocery run, turned on the radio, and heard the early bit of the press conference. At first I was afraid Stevens was going to be the coach as well as president, but they're talking about finding a new coach.

I think the coaching change is probably due. I don't know how much farther Stevens could take these guys. I sometimes suspect the players just don't listen to him any more. I'll be very curious who the next coach will be. Sometimes it seems like modern NBA players respond better to former players as coaches.

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1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

I don't think so.  If Dame made some demand that he go to LAL, then maybe, but otherwise there's no question that other teams could make a better offer than the Lakers could.  The Pelicans, for example, have draft picks and young assets, and a Zion + Dame combo could be enough to contend. 

That's a shame.

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10 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

That's a shame.

Is it?  I am a Lebron fan, but I have never been a Lakers fan, and the way the NBA makes it easy for a few of the marquee franchises is always frustrating.  A team of Davis+Lebron+Dame wouldn't be very sportsmanlike, unless one of them is injured.  Maybe I'd change my tune a little bit if the Nets win this year (which I still don't expect), but otherwise, not a fan.

Now I could get on board with either Denver or Utah (assuming they don't win this year) mortgaging the future for Dame.  Either one of those potential Big Threes would be awesome to watch.  I'm not sure if those teams could make the best offer either, but they at least have more to bring to the table than the Lakers do. 

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Just saw on ESPN that Embiid has a meniscus tear in his knee and apparently CP3 reinjured his shoulder. 

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This season's brutal injury record continues.  Now I'm just fearing the ultimate insult that the one team that remains healthy is the Nets. 

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Some of these injuries have to be a result of the shrunken off-seasons between the Bubble Season and the current season.   Players are just wearing out, like an old city taxi that is run 24/7.

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Yep it's a marathon not a race. Who ultimately knows who will be left standing? 

But please don't let it be Brooklyn.:D

Or L.A.s 

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The season should have probably been 50 games or so and started in like February. It was pretty easy to predict that injuries would become a big issue.

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8 hours ago, Red Tiger said:

Doesn't matter. At all.

When people in 10 or 20 years look back at this time they won't care or remember all of the controversy surrounding guys leaving for better pastures.

Hell, folks have already forgottten about 'The Decision'. The only thing folks will remember are the rings and trophies. Success has a way of making people forget.

Have it your way then. Regardless, I don't think it will work out that smoothly even if you're ring chasing. There's only one team a year after all.

Anyway, on further thought, I don't think that the Blazers roster is that much worse than the Jazz, head to head. Neither are favourites to be sure, but the Jazz are still the first seed even if it comes from being relatively healthy. Of course, there's always the issue of sum of the whole vs sum of the parts. Maybe the Jazz have a better fit or coaching. And the Blazers aren't out yet anyway.

8 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Surprised the shit out of me. I had gotten into my car for a quick grocery run, turned on the radio, and heard the early bit of the press conference. At first I was afraid Stevens was going to be the coach as well as president, but they're talking about finding a new coach.

I think the coaching change is probably due. I don't know how much farther Stevens could take these guys. I sometimes suspect the players just don't listen to him any more. I'll be very curious who the next coach will be. Sometimes it seems like modern NBA players respond better to former players as coaches.

I wouldn't have been surprised if either or both were fired, unfair but it happens. Quitting is different. 

I thought that Stevens generally overachieved with the roster, given all the injuries he has had to deal with. Very curious to what players he'll move and what the new coach gets out of the roster.

7 hours ago, Maithanet said:

Now I could get on board with either Denver or Utah (assuming they don't win this year) mortgaging the future for Dame.  Either one of those potential Big Threes would be awesome to watch.  I'm not sure if those teams could make the best offer either, but they at least have more to bring to the table than the Lakers do. 

Over Murray and Mitchell? I don't know about that. Murray's understandable given his injury, but Mitchell is core to the Jazz. It might not be as simple as plug and play. Not to mention both players are already very good, so the marginal improvement might not push them over the edge. Or that both are much younger but I guess that's the mortgaging the future part.

Who's Utah's big three anyway?

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Atlanta could prove to be a serious problem for the Sixers in the next round given Embiid's injury. Their record under McMillan is really impressive.

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Having had an extended look at Boban, he's not too great. He just isn't quick enough and that affects his ability to score, defend and rebound. That extra half second that he takes is too costly at this level.

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2 hours ago, Proudfeet said:

Who's Utah's big three anyway?

Well if Mitchell and Gobert are top 2 anchors for offense and defense, the 3rd would be spread across Conley, Clarkson and Bogdanovic. Sounds obvious but (on cursory glance) I don't see major differences in stats between their playoff run so far or the regular season for those 3. Put a gun to my head and I'd say Conley as he's got the edge on scoring and assists (playoffs).

 

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