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9 hours ago, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

2) I think the entire succession issue from Jaehaerys I to Viserys I would make way more sense if Aemon and Jocelyn had had a son who died young shortly before his father (For bonus points, he could have been named Aenys because it makes little sense that Jaehaerys would honor his mother but not his father given his repeated insistence that he didn't need a second father with regards to Rogar, which comes off as pretty Freudian to me, not least because in RL incestuous dynasties didn't shy away from parent-child relationships, plus the fact that though Aenys was a weak king he remains an ancestor of Aemon, Baelon, etc.)

4) Aegon, son of Baelon, should have lived to take part in the Dance, either as a wild card who both sides try to recruit or as a schemer playing both sides against each other as Larys may well have in OTL

Aemon and Jocelyn having a son that died young would not change the plot that much but could be used to explain why they didn't/couldn't have more children besides Rhaenys.  I think the bigger issue is the succession between Viserys-Rhaenyra/Aegon and the dance in general would have made more sense if below.

1) Viserys did not remarry and one of his sons with Aemma Arryns survived until at least adolescents or became another victim of the red spring in 120AC. This son could have been engaged to Laena Valeryon in place of Rheanyra and the Rhaenyra and Laenor match could have been a last minute replacement to keep the Velaryons happy and ensure Viserys bloodline continues on the iron throne. Damon could have still made the "heir for a day" remark about another son the died with Aemma.

2) Aegon, son of Baelon could have lived and married Alicent Hightower and had Aegon, Helaina, Aemond and Daron,

3) Maybe make Aegon the elder at least a little sympathetic and likable to contrast Rhaenyra. He doesn't have to be as outwardly charismatic and chivalrous as Renly or Damon Blackfyre but I think it would have added more nuance if he started out at least a little decent or even Harrold Hardyingish and was eventually manipulated by his mother and grandfather and then goes downhill after the death of Jaehaerys and the burns/injuries/addiction. Plus Aemond is a big enough asshole for the greens to match Daemon.

This would have have made the dance more realistic in my opinion, if Westeros had to choose between the kings chosen heir Rhaenyra (a spoiled woman with supposed bastard children), the kings brother Daemon (who was removed from succession and has made many enemies throughout Westeros) and the kings nephew Aegon (a spoiled son of the kings youngest brother but who has the support of the Hightower's and many other powerful families) as opposed to the king choosing his older legitimate daughter over a younger legitimate son in a medieval aristocracy when said king was chosen over the older female line to begin with...

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@The Merling King

I'm ambivalent about that. On one hand, it is a much more plausible scenario. On the other, it would be much more of a direct adaptation of the Anarchy and we know GRRM prefers to mix things up to keep the proceedings fresh.

Re Aemon and Jocelyn having a son: I should have said from Jaehaerys I-Baelon because in that case it makes sense that the succession wouldn't have come up before 92 AC whereas in OTL it never did despite Aemon lacking a son for twenty-two years.

Edited by The Grey Wolf Strikes Back

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16 minutes ago, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

@The Merling King

Re Aemon and Jocelyn having a son: I should have said from Jaehaerys I-Baelon because in that case it makes sense that the succession wouldn't have come up before 92 AC whereas in OTL it never did despite Aemon lacking a son for twenty-two years.

This would actually make sense, but the fact that George already killed off too many Targaryens was already a cliché. 

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2 hours ago, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

Re Aemon and Jocelyn having a son: I should have said from Jaehaerys I-Baelon because in that case it makes sense that the succession wouldn't have come up before 92 AC whereas in OTL it never did despite Aemon lacking a son for twenty-two years.

It seems as if Rhaenys was second in line after Aemon until 92 AC. But even if she wasn't - the king did have an Heir Apparent and he doesn't have to specify by decree who should succeed him if the heir predeceased him. That's something you do when push comes to shove and your heir dies and you have to name a new one.

After all, while you usually groom your eldest son to succeed you, when an ill fate takes him before his time you have to choose an heir you did, up to that point, not groom to rule. Jaehaerys I relied greatly on both his sons, so it is quite natural that he would turn to Baelon rather than Rhaenys after Aemon's death. The young age and inexperience of a grandchild would also have to be considered in such a scenario. It is not completely stupid to also include the heir of an heir in your power structure, preparing them for the role they might have in the future ... but while it isn't really clear that your heir is going to live to wear the crown it is even less likely that the grandchild we talk about is ever going to end up in that role.

Also, the Westerosi system doesn't go with a fixed line of succession. There are no laws or acts of succession where a given a king establishes a line of succession decreeing which child, grandchild, great-grandchild, cousin, etc. is going to come after whom. If Jaehaerys I had decided that Aemon would succeed him and Rhaenys eventually a King Aemon then he would have actually taken away King Aemon's right/power to rule on his own succession - which, to our knowledge, ever King on the Iron Throne had. The Conqueror named an heir, Aenys named an heir, Maegor named an heir and disinherited another, Jaehaerys I named and acknowledged multiple heirs, and so on.

In that sense, it makes sense that things only came to a head after Aemon died. If Aemon had succeeded his father then the decision who would succeed would have fallen to Aemon which is as it should have been.

And to me it looks as if Rhaenys and Corlys and Aemon intended that either Rhaenys herself or her son would succeed a King Aemon. That seems to me the reason why Aemon wanted a grandson when he left ... and why he thought that Corlys wanted a son.

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@Lord Varys

That doesn't explain why Aemon never addressed the issue with his father seeing as Jaehaerys I's decision to name Baelon his heir angers Jocelyn, Alysanne, Boremund, Rhaenys, Corlys, etc. Hell, we don't even know how Baelon felt on the matter. Nor does that address the other points I brought up, which are, in part, based on the fact that Jaehaerys I had too few grandchildren and the Dance being nowhere near as detailed as Aegon III's regency or the first twelve years of the Old King's reign.

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2 minutes ago, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

@Lord Varys

That doesn't explain why Aemon never addressed the issue with his father seeing as Jaehaerys I's decision to name Baelon his heir angers Jocelyn, Alysanne, Boremund, Rhaenys, Corlys, etc. Hell, we don't even know how Baelon felt on the matter. Nor does that address the other points I brought up, which are, in part, based on the fact that Jaehaerys I had too few grandchildren and the Dance being nowhere near as detailed as Aegon III's regency or the first twelve years of the Old King's reign.

Oh, Aemon may have told his father that he would make Rhaenys or his grandchild by her his heir ... but why would Aemon discuss the issue of Jaehaerys' succession in case he, Aemon, were dead? That would have been a scenario they didn't really think about.

Baelon apparently wasn't consulted in the issue of the succession. He went to Tarth to avenge his brother and when he returned to court he was cheered as a hero and his grieving father publicly declared him the new heir. This looks and feels like a spontaneous decision - well within established precedent (Jaehaerys also became king after his elder brothers died a violent death), of course, but still a decision Jaehaerys I didn't think through before he made the call. Because his own wife and extended family - his half-siblings, granddaughter, and Master of Ships were completely against this. One imagines that things would have gone differently if Baelon hadn't avenged Aemon and if they had soberly discussed the succession. Then I'd assume that Baelon would have supported Rhaenys' claim and perhaps they would have found some way to give him an exalted position in the new system - say, by him marrying the widowed Jocelyn, making him Rhaenys' step-father - but the way Baelon is described he doesn't strike one as a character who wanted to be king in place of his late brother - nor rob his niece of her birthright. He seems to be a guy who ended up doing what his father asked him to do, basically.

I agree that things aren't detailed enough nor particularly well-thought out. The really big issue is that they didn't even try to marry Rhaenys to Viserys.

I think the entire prelude to the Dance could have worked much better if it had been a long-simmering Targaryen issue, i.e. if there had been multiple children and grandchildren of Jaehaerys I - and perhaps even some cousins - who had personal and political issues with each other that shaped both the succession of Jaehaerys I as well as the ascension and later reign of Viserys I. Both the Hightowers and the Strongs would have made more sense as Targaryen cadet branches.

And the issue of blood purity could also have been a real issue in the sense that Viserys I could have been chosen king, in part, because he had more Targaryen blood than Rhaenys and Laenor, just as Rhaenyra may have worked much better as the child of a sibling incest union than the whole cousin marriage thing. If the Targaryen ideal is sibling incest then a daughter from such a union could have be viewed as much better suited for the throne than the children of Viserys' later love marriage with the lesser Hightowers (assuming they are in the stories).

In part such motives are there, but they are very much in the background.

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On 5/15/2021 at 12:44 AM, Jaenara Belarys said:

Which contender would you support in the Dance? Aegon or Rhaenyra? Black or Green? Personally, I support Rhaenyra for the reasons of:

#2 of the options you list is the one that matters most to me. He had the lords of the realm swear to support her, he never said she was anything but his heir to the end of his reign, and so on. So I lean to the Blacks..

As I've said before, Viserys should have had a second such ceremony take place, or at least should have forced his children, Alicent, and Otto to make another public acknowledgment of Rhaenyra's status as heir to the throne. 

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46 minutes ago, Ran said:

#2 of the options you list is the one that matters most to me. He had the lords of the realm swear to support her, he never said she was anything but his heir to the end of his reign, and so on. So I lean to the Blacks.

Basically Rhaenyra or Aegon is the only choice that mattered in a dynastic succession war. The Blacks and Greens weren't political factions as such but simply the name espoused by the personal followers of Alicent Hightower (and eventually Aegon II) and Rhaenyra Targaryen.

46 minutes ago, Ran said:

As I've said before, Viserys should have had a second such ceremony take place, or at least should have forced his children, Alicent, and Otto to make another public acknowledgment of Rhaenyra's status as heir to the throne. 

The interesting question here George never bothered to answer is how Otto and Rhaenyra's half-siblings had to style Rhaenyra in public and what signs of deference and homage was due her as Heir Apparent and Princess of Dragonstone. As queen Alicent would have either outranked Rhaenyra or be of equal rank, but Otto and the younger children may have been forced to publicly submit to her in word or deed - I'm thinking of curtsies, bend knees, etc.

If something like that was in place basically since 105 AC - and it was the way in which Alicent's children grew up - then, technically, there may not have been a need for another ceremony or a specific vow - or at least it would have appeared as if there was no need - because the courtly hierarchy was clear to all.

The fact that nobody seems to have groomed Aegon the Elder to rule (despite the fact that both Otto and Alicent could have done this clandestinely or, perhaps, even openly by pushing Viserys to allow Aegon to attend court and council sessions, or by starting doing as the king's health started to deteriorate) and that he may not have been that keen to be king can be seen as evidence that he wasn't expecting a coup nor actively supporting it. Instead, he may have made his peace with the idea that his half-sister would rule one day ... never mind that he never liked her.

I'd agree that the coup would have been much harder if the entire Realm had renewed their allegiance to Rhaenyra in 125 AC, say.

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I honestly wonder why Aegon and Aemond were left to their own devices instead of being actively groomed by Alicent and Otto. Likewise, I wonder why Aemond and Daeron weren't betrothed or Aemond fostered prior to the Dance. Same regarding Jaehaerys, Jaehaera, and Maelor. Sure they're children but in real life that never stopped anyone. Also, why would Mysaria stay in KL after Rhaenyra fled? Ugh. So many questions because Heirs of the Dragon was never given the expansion it needed to really work as a prelude to the Dance.

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On 9/14/2021 at 9:44 PM, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

I honestly wonder why Aegon and Aemond were left to their own devices instead of being actively groomed by Alicent and Otto. Likewise, I wonder why Aemond and Daeron weren't betrothed or Aemond fostered prior to the Dance. Same regarding Jaehaerys, Jaehaera, and Maelor. Sure they're children but in real life that never stopped anyone. Also, why would Mysaria stay in KL after Rhaenyra fled? Ugh. So many questions because Heirs of the Dragon was never given the expansion it needed to really work as a prelude to the Dance.

Well, Aemond was sort of groomed by Criston Cole. They were forging him into a weapon, it seems. Age-wise it is not surprising that the younger sons were not yet betrothed, and one assumes that Alicent and Otto planned to marry Daeron to a Hightower girl.

The Mysaria thing is weird but Rhaenyra fleeing without Alicent and Corlys and Tyland also makes little sense, so who knows? I guess Mysaria could have fallen out of favor after the Daemon-Nettles debacle - assuming Rhaenyra learned about that in the night prior to her flight - so she may not have been welcomed in the queen's party.

Edited by Lord Varys

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But nobles were betrothed at that young of an age in RL, especially when there were matters of inheritance at stake. Also, does anyone else find it a bit strange that Jaehaerys didn't name one of his kids Aenys, Daemon, Barth, Aethan, Corlys, Vaella, Rhaena, Rhaenys, or Valaena? Oh, and Aemond's relationship with Criston Cole would have been interesting to explore. Same with the relationship between Alicent's children.

Edited by The Grey Wolf Strikes Back

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19 minutes ago, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

But nobles were betrothed at that young of an age in RL, especially when there were matters of inheritance at stake.

As per FaB the Targaryens weren't exactly betrothed at an early age on a regular basis. It happened, of course, but just as often folks had no idea who they should marry and the marriages were only arranged when they were 16-20. Aemond and Daeron had little to nothing to offer, being younger children of the king, nor does it seem likely that Viserys I thought much about arranging matches for them.

And trying to marry one of your family to Aemond or Daeron while Viserys I was still around and Rhaenyra the Heir Apparent would inevitely mean your family would have to go Green or be viewed as such by Rhaenyra and, perhaps, even the king himself. Some might have been interested in that ... but not necessarily all that many people. Prior to the coup the faction of the Greens cannot have been that large ... at least not openly. And they cannot have been all that outspoken after 120 AC and even less so after Viserys I started to cut out tongues.

In a sense, the entire Green thing seems to hinge solely on Viserys I's love for Alicent. A king less interested in pleasing his wife and keeping her sweet would have never indulged her to the point he did, especially not after she had made it clear that she wasn't happy with the succession.

19 minutes ago, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

Also, does anyone else find it a bit strange that Jaehaerys didn't name one of his kids Aenys, Daemon, Barth, Aethan, Corlys, Vaella, Rhaena, Rhaenys, or Valaena?

Well, lots of the name choices for the children of Jaehaerys and Alysanne are weird. They have a daughter named Maegelle, after all. What was that about? Naming somebody after Uncle Maegor?

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18 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, lots of the name choices for the children of Jaehaerys and Alysanne are weird. They have a daughter named Maegelle, after all. What was that about? Naming somebody after Uncle Maegor?

Maegelle is really a name you'd give to a septa. 

1 hour ago, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

But nobles were betrothed at that young of an age in RL, especially when there were matters of inheritance at stake. Also, does anyone else find it a bit strange that Jaehaerys didn't name one of his kids Aenys, Daemon, Barth, Aethan, Corlys, Vaella, Rhaena, Rhaenys, or Valaena? Oh, and Aemond's relationship with Criston Cole would have been interesting to explore. Same with the relationship between Alicent's children

The unusual thing is how, for example, the name Aerion wasn't used for 200 years, altough it's the name of the Conqueror's father. Gaemon only once as well, by Jaehaerys I, altough we are supposed to believe he was a great figure in history. Surely every Targaryen heard of Daenys the Dreamer, yet noone named their daughter after her ever. Why was the name Daeron given to both the sons of King Viserys I and Aegon IV. The young dragon Daeron I got his name after his maternal grandfather, but he was alive when Aegon and Naerys named their son Daeron. That Daeron Velaryon was likely alive when Daeron the Daring was born as well, tho. Still doesn't make sense. 

The relationships between Alicent's children: Helaena Aegon, probably Aemond as well (since Helaena really wasn't like them). Daeron was serving at Oldtown since age 10, which means he likely did not have any chemistry with his brothers or her sister. If that wouldn't be the case, I suppose he still wouldn't be friends with his brothers. They really aren't alike. On the other hand Aemond and Aegon likely had a good relationship (at least from Aegon's side). Only Aemond knows how he felt about his siblings and which ones he liked, but I suppose none of them really. 

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@Daeron the Daring

Have to disagree. Given Daeron's reaction to Maelor's death, Aegon II's desire to build statues of his brothers, and Aemond's continual loyalty to Aegon II after Rook's Rest I'd say there's room for an interesting dynamic. Same with Helaena if her response to being asked where Aegon II is when Viserys I dies is anything to go by but then again GRRM just had to make her another broken mother like Cat, Lysa, Alannys, etc. (*eye roll*)

Also, just because Daeron was fostered at Oldtown doesn't mean he didn't stay in contact or visit from time to time, especially with the benefit of faster air travel.

At least Aerion got a namesake. Valaena got none whatsoever.

Edited by The Grey Wolf Strikes Back

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10 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Maegelle is really a name you'd give to a septa.

One imagines that they didn't know she would be a septa when she was born ... and they happened to have an uncle called Maegor they both loathed, so...?

10 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

The unusual thing is how, for example, the name Aerion wasn't used for 200 years, altough it's the name of the Conqueror's father. Gaemon only once as well, by Jaehaerys I, altough we are supposed to believe he was a great figure in history. Surely every Targaryen heard of Daenys the Dreamer, yet noone named their daughter after her ever. Why was the name Daeron given to both the sons of King Viserys I and Aegon IV. The young dragon Daeron I got his name after his maternal grandfather, but he was alive when Aegon and Naerys named their son Daeron. That Daeron Velaryon was likely alive when Daeron the Daring was born as well, tho. Still doesn't make sense.

We don't know if Aerion Targaryen was an impressive person or somebody held in high esteem by his children. And his grandchildren and great-grandchildren didn't even know him, so this isn't much of a deal. And it seems to me that the names Daenerys, Daena, and Daeron certainly can be viewed as variations of the name Daenys. And while Daenys was certainly a crucial figure in the Targaryens surviving the Doom ... we also don't know whether she did anything of note after her vision, either.

10 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

The relationships between Alicent's children: Helaena Aegon, probably Aemond as well (since Helaena really wasn't like them). Daeron was serving at Oldtown since age 10, which means he likely did not have any chemistry with his brothers or her sister. If that wouldn't be the case, I suppose he still wouldn't be friends with his brothers. They really aren't alike. On the other hand Aemond and Aegon likely had a good relationship (at least from Aegon's side). Only Aemond knows how he felt about his siblings and which ones he liked, but I suppose none of them really. 

Aemond certainly seemed to look down on his brother, at least after he started running things in Aegon's name. Aemond also didn't seem to be close to Daeron or else he wouldn't have been so opposed to the idea to join him and his army later on. After all, an elder brother caring for a younger brother wouldn't have viewed him as a rival for glory but would have rather tried to do his best to protect him and help him to defeat their common enemies. But Aemond didn't care about any of that - he didn't even care about retaking KL, freeing Helaena and Alicent, or finding Aegon II.

Daeron wouldn't have had all that much contact with his older siblings due to the age gap and the decision to foster him at Oldtown.

10 hours ago, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

@Daeron the Daring

Have to disagree. Given Daeron's reaction to Maelor's death, Aegon II's desire to build statues of his brothers, and Aemond's continual loyalty to Aegon II after Rook's Rest I'd say there's room for an interesting dynamic. Same with Helaena if her response to being asked where Aegon II is when Viserys I dies is anything to go by but then again GRRM just had to make her another broken mother like Cat, Lysa, Alannys, etc. (*eye roll*)

Little Maelor really died in a horrible way. And he was Daeron's nephew. He doesn't have to be close to Aegon or his nephews to be abhorred by that. And the statues just seem to be a vanity project on Aegon's part. If George wanted to send the message that Aegon was genuinely close to his brothers he would have done this differently - say, how he portrayed Aegon's genuine feelings for Sunfyre.

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13 hours ago, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

@Daeron the Daring

Have to disagree. Given Daeron's reaction to Maelor's death, Aegon II's desire to build statues of his brothers, and Aemond's continual loyalty to Aegon II after Rook's Rest I'd say there's room for an interesting dynamic. Same with Helaena if her response to being asked where Aegon II is when Viserys I dies is anything to go by but then again GRRM just had to make her another broken mother like Cat, Lysa, Alannys, etc. (*eye roll*)

Also, just because Daeron was fostered at Oldtown doesn't mean he didn't stay in contact or visit from time to time, especially with the benefit of faster air travel.

At least Aerion got a namesake. Valaena got none whatsoever.

Daeron certainly was a caring person in general. Way better than his brothers in general. His wrathful (not really just, however) acts probably originate from that. And his immaturity. And that he was described as a person who wasn't accustomed to giving orders, so when he got the chance to do so, well, he fucked up (from a modern point of view, of course). Beside that, he is described as gentle and curteous, especially compared to his older brothers. That doesn't make it very likely that he had any love or simpathy towards his brothers outside the usual sibling one. He might have turned out the way he did because he wasn't around his mother from a younger age. 

After all, it is never mentioned, but Rhaenyra and Alicent likely fueled the conflicts between their children from a very young age. Daeron was part of this as well, yet is described different. 

As of Helaena, I understand why didn't necesarilly like his brother/husband Aegon. Aegon was protective of her when Jake wanted to dance with her (some years before the dance), but on the same page made no effort to make their relationship working on any level.

Aegon's intention to build statues to his dead brothers could mean a thing if we didn't already know he never loved anyone, probably only his dragon, as Lord Varys mentioned. The guy gave a fuck about his wife's and children's death, why would he care about his brothers'? Never after the Dance anything moved him so much as remarrying and making a new heir to the throne. 

As of Aemond, we clearly see how he just wasn't moved by anything that happened around him with his own family. Including Aegon, Helaena, his nephews, and even his own mother. The Dance was a playground to him (especially after his 'coronation') where he can finally go for his vendetta. I don't think I have to say much more about him. He might have had a somewhat human connection with his brother Aegon, but the single thing keeping that alive might have just been the Green factionalism, as he really enjoyed being at the wheel after his brother's accident and supposed death. 

Edited by Daeron the Daring

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If we talk Aemond, then the one person he seems to have loved would have been Alys Rivers. While we have no idea about the exact relationship dynamics there, he came back to Harrenhal for her and he apparently went to Harrenhal to face Daemon because of Alys' advice.

However, he seems to have been little more than a pawn in that relationship. If we assume that Alys Rivers could see possible futures she may have set up Aemond for the slaughter, knowing it would give her and her unborn son the powerbase of Harrenhal she was looking for.

The idea that Alys Rivers - a woman much older than Aemond - actually loved that guy is very unlikely.

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

If we talk Aemond, then the one person he seems to have loved would have been Alys Rivers. While we have no idea about the exact relationship dynamics there, he came back to Harrenhal for her and he apparently went to Harrenhal to face Daemon because of Alys' advice.

However, he seems to have been little more than a pawn in that relationship. If we assume that Alys Rivers could see possible futures she may have set up Aemond for the slaughter, knowing it would give her and her unborn son the powerbase of Harrenhal she was looking for.

The idea that Alys Rivers - a woman much older than Aemond - actually loved that guy is very unlikely.

I was giving a few toughts to this idea as well. But let's be honest here, it's more than a possibility that the woman bewitched him. 

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19 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

I was giving a few toughts to this idea as well. But let's be honest here, it's more than a possibility that the woman bewitched him. 

I really think Alys Rivers and her son get too little attention in the fandom so far. Nobody - me included - thought the child we knew about since TPatQ could become a pretender to the throne ... but that's what happened. Nobody thought she might effectively become the new Lady of Harrenhal but that's what happened. And nobody seems to care much about what she and her son might do later during the reign of Aegon III. There is even a subtle hint that insofar as history is concerned, Aemond Targaryen and Alys Rivers were actually married: Gyldayn numbers Alys Rivers among the widows taking over for their husbands after the Dance.

That is very odd. I think it is pretty clear that she and her son will cause much grief to the Realm and the royal family, triggering a conflict which might result in the death of the last healthy dragons and perhaps even the deaths of Baela and Rhaena. If there are more dragonriders after Rhaena - possible in light of the fact that Silverwing and the Cannibal are still around - then Baela is the best candidate considering her bravery and determination (the only other candidate that makes sense would be Viserys, but Aegon III might not allow him to mount a dragon).

To defeat Alys' son - assuming he already has a dragon which certainly is possible if Vhagar left some eggs - Aegon III would need dragonriders of his own.

Also, the fact that Alys and her son are at Harrenhal is also very significant. Harrenhal and its curse greatly affected the Targaryens and their dragons, specifically, but also the Realm at large. We have Balerion destroying Harrenhal, we have Maegor taking a daughter of Harrenhal as a second wife (which causes the entire Faith Militant Uprising), we have Aegon the Uncrowned and Quicksilver dying close to Harrenhal, we have Rhaena living a rather miserable life at Harrenhal, we have a Great Council at Harrenhal which effectively may have cursed the royal family and the entire Realm, sowing the seeds for the Dance (something that's repeated with the Tourney of Harrenhal in the Year of the False Spring), then we have all the Dance stuff at Harrenhal - the slaughtering of the Strongs, the split between Aemond and Criston Cole, the Battle Above the Gods Eye.

It only seems fitting to assume that the last piece of major dragon action will also take place at Harrenhal - just as the first piece effectively did. Balerion was first fully unleashed at Harrenhal.

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2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I really think Alys Rivers and her son get too little attention in the fandom so far. Nobody - me included - thought the child we knew about since TPatQ could become a pretender to the throne ... but that's what happened. Nobody thought she might effectively become the new Lady of Harrenhal but that's what happened. And nobody seems to care much about what she and her son might do later during the reign of Aegon III. There is even a subtle hint that insofar as history is concerned, Aemond Targaryen and Alys Rivers were actually married: Gyldayn numbers Alys Rivers among the widows taking over for their husbands after the Dance.

That is very odd. I think it is pretty clear that she and her son will cause much grief to the Realm and the royal family, triggering a conflict which might result in the death of the last healthy dragons and perhaps even the deaths of Baela and Rhaena. If there are more dragonriders after Rhaena - possible in light of the fact that Silverwing and the Cannibal are still around - then Baela is the best candidate considering her bravery and determination (the only other candidate that makes sense would be Viserys, but Aegon III might not allow him to mount a dragon).

I guess people just assume it ended with the death of Alys and his son, otherwise we'd know. But that might not be the case. But then why we know so little about all of it. This goes for Maegor as well, son of Aerion. 

Edited by Daeron the Daring

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