Aliens?

[rotting sea cow]

On 6/1/2021 at 1:26 AM, Corvinus85 said:

After seeing the latest leaked footage with the radar screen from the Navy ship and thinking of the impending Pentagon report, I can't but help feeling that the US government and the Pentagon have backed themselves in a lose-lose situation.

1. If they present evidence that suggests these UFOs are advanced drones developed by another nation, which effectively have been trolling the US Navy, then that would mean that US Intelligence have dropped a major ball.

2. If there is enough evidence to suggest that these couldn't possibly be man-made objects developed with current technology, then it opens the door to investigate everything else they tried to cover up between Roswell and present day.

I suppose an exit could be that they come out and say these are the US's, they are experimental, and that's all everyone needs to know. The general public may accept that, but there will still be voices calling for more revelations.

My thoughts on the issue and why I started this thread. It's getting weird either way.

[Chaircat Meow]

I never used to take UFO reports remotely seriously but since I started reading about all of these navy sightings, especially the Tic-Tac incident (2004) I am open to the possibility these are indeed extra-terrestrial craft.  You can sometimes be too sceptical. For example, dismissing multiple reports from well-trained pilots based on the say-so of internet debunkers who have glanced at the videos does not strike me as sensible. 

As people have said, the truth about this looks like it must be very strange either way. Either we're being visited by alien craft, which apart from occasionally playing hide and seek with military aircraft don't do anything or, somehow, someone on Earth is able to convince the US navy and other militaries that they possess aircraft with unearthly capabilities when they actually don't.

And if this latter scenario is the case it sounds like these people, whoever they are (and they would likely be Chinese or Russian, obviously), are actually trying to create the impression there are aliens out there, probably so US pilots don't report or investigate strange objects, thereby making intelligence gathering about US capabilities easier. 

I think we can rule out the possibility that someone on Earth does actually possess a craft like the Tic-Tac. It would need vast advances in our propulsion technology and understanding of physics to make something like that and if these had happened we would know about it.  

[Fez]

Well, I'm sure the crack US Space Force will be up to the task of figuring this all out.

That's a real photo. I don't know if they badly misunderstand Star Wars or all the biggest nerds in the US military got transfer papers to join the Space Force after it was announced.

[Clueless Northman]

6 hours ago, Chaircat Meow said:

or, somehow, someone on Earth is able to convince the US navy and other militaries that they possess aircraft with unearthly capabilities when they actually don't.

Frankly, in this case, my money is actually on the US faking all these reports and intending to announce they really have these super-duper UFOs so China and Russia can get lost - when obviously the US doesn't have them, it's all a lie to convince Russia and China to drop dead and stop trying to compete militarily.

[Chaircat Meow]

35 minutes ago, Clueless Northman said:

Frankly, in this case, my money is actually on the US faking all these reports and intending to announce they really have these super-duper UFOs so China and Russia can get lost - when obviously the US doesn't have them, it's all a lie to convince Russia and China to drop dead and stop trying to compete militarily.

I did not phrase my post correctly. I meant 'somehow, someone on Earth is able to convince the US navy and other militaries that there are aircraft with unearthly capabilities in the skies when there actually aren't.' I don't think it makes much sense to try and convince a competitor nation that you have a craft like the Tic-Tac, because it is clearly beyond any Terran's technological level. If anyone on Earth really had that kind of propulsion system we would see signs of it elsewhere. 

The idea is rather to convince your competitors that there are actually aliens in the sky, so when you send funny looking spy planes to spy on them, they ignore them because they just think 'oh, it is those UFOs again.'

[Luzifer's right hand]

11 hours ago, Chaircat Meow said:

I did not phrase my post correctly. I meant 'somehow, someone on Earth is able to convince the US navy and other militaries that there are aircraft with unearthly capabilities in the skies when there actually aren't.' I don't think it makes much sense to try and convince a competitor nation that you have a craft like the Tic-Tac, because it is clearly beyond any Terran's technological level. If anyone on Earth really had that kind of propulsion system we would see signs of it elsewhere. 

The idea is rather to convince your competitors that there are actually aliens in the sky, so when you send funny looking spy planes to spy on them, they ignore them because they just think 'oh, it is those UFOs again.'

The bases of the AIs are underwater. 

[Werthead]

 

21 hours ago, Chaircat Meow said:

I never used to take UFO reports remotely seriously but since I started reading about all of these navy sightings, especially the Tic-Tac incident (2004) I am open to the possibility these are indeed extra-terrestrial craft.  You can sometimes be too sceptical. For example, dismissing multiple reports from well-trained pilots based on the say-so of internet debunkers who have glanced at the videos does not strike me as sensible. 

The debunking of the top-down fast-moving UFO video was done through very simple parallax analysis, but was still done over several days requiring a reasonably large amount of calculations. It was not "glancing" at a video, and dismissing it as such is highly disingenuous.

As I said before, it goes to show that military pilots are human beings and sometimes make mistakes that are embarrassing in retrospect but in the moment feel utterly alien and inexplicable. In that sense, immediately taking somebody's word without subjecting it to even momentary scrutiny is definitely not sensible, even if they are professionals.

That of course also varies by case. The Tic-Tac Incident is much more unusual because it took place over a prolonged period of time with multiple witnesses and radar imagery. The Chicago O'Hare incident in 2006, the Phoenix Lights incident in 1997 and the Belgium UFO wave of 1989-90 are all far more interesting and inexplicable for the same reason (thousands to tens of thousands of witnesses, on the ground and in the air, some radar contact, over a prolonged period of time).

The Phoenix Lights incident is quite entertaining because the pilot who saw them from the air was Kurt Fucking Russell. First Contact could have been handled by Snake Plissken, which would have been amazing.

[Corvinus85]

2 hours ago, Werthead said:

The Phoenix Lights incident is quite entertaining because the pilot who saw them from the air was Kurt Fucking Russell. First Contact could have been handled by Snake Plissken, which would have been amazing.

That would have been amazing. But in this context, we would have needed to go with his character of Jack O'Neil (with one 'l) no? 

[The Mance]

2 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

That would have been amazing. But in this context, we would have needed to go with his character of Jack O'Neil (with one 'l) no? 

I see where you're coming from, but I'd rest a little easier with Jack Burton by my side.

[Larry of the Lawn]

If we're talking Kurt Russell characters best suited to handle first contact I'm going with Captain Ron, hands-down.

[DMC]

9 hours ago, Werthead said:

The Phoenix Lights incident is quite entertaining because the pilot who saw them from the air was Kurt Fucking Russell. First Contact could have been handled by Snake Plissken, which would have been amazing.

So is that why Snake disabled all electronics in the world?  To protect us from aliens?  "Welcome to the human race," indeed.

Also, as long as First Contact isn't handled by Jodie Foster and Matt McConaughey, I'm good.

[drawkcabi]

My totally-unqualified-yet-valid-opinion-because-I'm-saying-it-on-the-internet...

What I think is going on ranking from most likely to least likely

However (*) indicates what I'm holding out hope it could be:

 

1. Totally mundane objects and/or equipment glitches unintentionally causing this.

2. Totally mundane objects and/or equipment glitches intentionally causing this i.e. hoaxes

3. Secret U.S. experiments

4. Secret experiments of other governments

5. New/undiscovered yet completely non living, non intelligent phenomena

6. The objects are non sentient lifeforms, not lifeforms in ships, but lifeforms we never knew could exist either terrestrial or extraterrestrial that have the instinctual ability to transcend our understanding of physics, perhaps extra dimensional as well. *

7. We're in a simulation and these are glitches in the matrix. *

8. It's time travelers.*

9. It's intelligent alien life in advanced craft that have travelled here from other worlds and/or dimensions. *

[Ran]

There's a piece from April that I saw that suggests that most of the stuff that isn't just pilots being bad eyewitnesses about things is in reality evidence that an adversary (i.e. Russia or China, in all likelihood) having penetrated air defenses using drones or drone swarms that are sending out crazy radar signals.  Notably, he points out that the Department of Defense is already funding a project to do just that with networked drone swarms, dubbed NEMESIS.

[Werthead]

There was an interesting UFO series on Amazon that made the point that UFOs have been seen for centuries, at least going back to the 17th and 18th Centuries but probably far earlier (and of course there's Ezekiel and his sky-wheels in the Bible), but the descriptions of them have changed. So in the pre-modern era, the UFOs were described effectively as sky-chariots, then in the 19th Century they became steampunk, like steam ships in the sky, then during the 1940s and 1950s it was gleaming silver bullets and saucers (reflecting the jet age), then dark triangles (not dissimilar to stealth aircraft). What is odd is that the type of vehicle has not remained static, suggesting that either the interlopers are advancing in technology even as we are, or that witnesses' own awareness of our level of technology seems to be constantly making the appearance of UFOs change.

It was also interesting to see that the reports of direct, close encounters with actual beings seem to have dropped over the years, and even the size of UFOs seems to be going down, with more recent reports being sizes more indicative of drones than perhaps manned craft. The Phoenix lights craft was unusual in bucking the trend and being really gargantuan (whilst O'Hare 2006 was odd in that it was a classic saucer, sightings of which have become relatively thin on the ground).

[Spockydog]

12 minutes ago, Werthead said:

It was also interesting to see that the reports of direct, close encounters with actual beings seem to have dropped over the years, and even the size of UFOs seems to be going down, with more recent reports being sizes more indicative of drones than perhaps manned craft. The Phoenix lights craft was unusual in bucking the trend and being really gargantuan (whilst O'Hare 2006 was odd in that it was a classic saucer, sightings of which have become relatively thin on the ground).

The Japan Airlines JAL 1628 Incident involved a very large object. Saucer-shaped, like a giant walnut, this one was absolutely humungous, several times larger than a 747.

For me, this is one of the more compelling cases.  Multiple objects, multiple visual contacts - all captured on radar and ATC comms, and an extremely credible witness in Captain Terauchi:

"The thing was flying as if there was no such thing as gravity. It sped up, then stopped, then flew at our speed, in our direction, so that to us it appeared to be standing still. The next instant it changed course. In other words, the flying object had overcome gravity." 

Here is his sketch of the object. Seeing as the incident lasted almost an hour, he had plenty of time to take in the detail. I reckon the sketch is pretty accurate.

[TheLastWolf]

7 hours ago, DMC said:

Also, as long as First Contact isn't handled by Jodie Foster and Matt McConaughey, I'm good

Arrival 

[Ran]

5 hours ago, Spockydog said:

an extremely credible witness in Captain Terauchi:

I don't know why you would consider him very credible. Wikipedia notes that he made multiple UFO sighting reports over a period of time, and often referred to what he saw as spaceships or motherships, suggesting that like Fox Mulder he wanted to believe. He ended up being grounded and moved to a desk job by the airline for a few years.

The FAA investigators noted that his flight crew did not corroborate his report about that giant object -- they saw unidentified lights, yes, but he's the only one who claimed there was a giant craft.

 

 

[Spockydog]

5 hours ago, Ran said:

I don't know why you would consider him very credible. Wikipedia notes that he made multiple UFO sighting reports over a period of time, and often referred to what he saw as spaceships or motherships, suggesting that like Fox Mulder he wanted to believe. He ended up being grounded and moved to a desk job by the airline for a few years.

The FAA investigators noted that his flight crew did not corroborate his report about that giant object -- they saw unidentified lights, yes, but he's the only one who claimed there was a giant craft.

 

 

The people debunking him are professional debunkers. It's how they earn a living. And don't get me started on Glass. The guy is a hack.

Having said that, I looked for information on Terauchi's other claimed sightings, and all I can find is Glass's claim of multiple reports from Terauchi, with nothing at all to actually back this up.

So, any links detailing these other reports would be great, if you can provide them.

And yeah, Terauchi got grounded. I'm sure you are aware that this is common practice in civil and military aviation, and the main reason why the vast majority of UFO sightings by pilots remain unreported. 

 

[Inkdaub]

On 6/2/2021 at 1:01 PM, Fez said:

That's a real photo. I don't know if they badly misunderstand Star Wars or all the biggest nerds in the US military got transfer papers to join the Space Force after it was announced.

If I were in the military and they were letting people join up I'd do it.

15 hours ago, DMC said:

Also, as long as First Contact isn't handled by Jodie Foster and Matt McConaughey, I'm good.

We can dump McConaughey but Foster did a good job with it I thought.  Eighteen hours of static!

[Fez]

Early news about the official, classified UFO report being delivered to Congress later this month. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/report-does-not-confirm-or-rule-out-ufos-in-unexplained-aerial-events/2021/06/03/87654f70-c4d3-11eb-8c34-f8095f2dc445_story.html

Quote

 

A soon-to-be-released government report on unexplained aerial phenomena finds no proof of extraterrestrial activity, but cannot provide a definitive explanation for scores of incidents in which strange objects have been spotted in the sky, officials said on Thursday.

The findings of the report, due to be provided to Congress by the director of national intelligence as soon as this month, will offer no firm conclusions about what the objects — repeatedly detected by military pilots and others in recent years — might be, according to two officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to address a document that is not yet public.

That the report, whose conclusions were first described by the New York Times, does not rule out extraterrestrial activity is likely to further stoke what has become a highly unusual national discussion about the possibility that unknown life-forms are visiting Earth, as senators, former CIA directors and former president Barack Obama express new openness to UFOs.

 

Sounds like they've still got no idea. Apparently the one firm conclusion is that its not some secret, previously-unaccounted-for US military program that's responsible.