Aliens?

[polishgenius]

4 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

can probably synthesise whatever you need anyway. 

 

To be fair, this seems like a false assumption. Even if you're synthesising things, and tbh at the levels you're implying in terms of resource-raiding being no longer needed, you're essentially talking about alchemy, you're still synthesising them out of something. You still run into a resource problem eventually.

[Soylent Brown]

8 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

 

To be fair, this seems like a false assumption. Even if you're synthesising things, and tbh at the levels you're implying in terms of resource-raiding being no longer needed, you're essentially talking about alchemy, you're still synthesising them out of something. You still run into a resource problem eventually.

It's not like there's a shortage of hydrogen out there, just waiting to be squashed into something numberier.

[DaveSumm]

1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

You still run into a resource problem eventually.

Just to put some crude numbers on it, if there were an alien civilisation just 1% of the length of the Milky Way away from us (1000 light years), call that the radius of a circle; there are 8 million stars in that circle alone, about 17% of stars have planets so 1,360,000 solar systems. Plenty of stuff there if you really need it (and as @Soylent Brown points out, if you’ve mastered the colossal energy needed to travel then you can probably manipulate hydrogen). I just don’t see how expending billions of joules of energy to travel vast distances so you can grab some rocks or whatever and then expend the same energy getting back could possibly be a logical investment, what could you possibly be getting out of that stuff?

And that’s just 1% of the length, it goes up exponentially to a full 17,000,000,000 solar systems in the Milky Way. 

[felice]

55 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said:

It's not like there's a shortage of hydrogen out there, just waiting to be squashed into something numberier.

As far as we know. Our information about the universe outside our solar system is between years and billions of years out of date; we could be in the path of an expanding alien megacivilisation that's absorbing all the hydrogen and other matter it can get its hands on. (hopefully not literal hands)

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

20 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Just to put some crude numbers on it, if there were an alien civilisation just 1% of the length of the Milky Way away from us (1000 light years), call that the radius of a circle; there are 8 million stars in that circle alone, about 17% of stars have planets so 1,360,000 solar systems. Plenty of stuff there if you really need it (and as @Soylent Brown points out, if you’ve mastered the colossal energy needed to travel then you can probably manipulate hydrogen). I just don’t see how expending billions of joules of energy to travel vast distances so you can grab some rocks or whatever and then expend the same energy getting back could possibly be a logical investment, what could you possibly be getting out of that stuff?

And that’s just 1% of the length, it goes up exponentially to a full 17,000,000,000 solar systems in the Milky Way. 

Clearly you haven't seen the latest Unobtanium stock prices....

[Luzifer's right hand]

Butt probing is a better reason for interstellar travel than resources.

Maybe they want to see an extinction event in action though. 

[maarsen]

11 minutes ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

Butt probing is a better reason for interstellar travel than resources.

Maybe they want to see an extinction event in action though. 

If aliens are into butt probing, they would be on the dating thread.

[JGP]

Anthropomorphism aside though, if one were to allow an advanced alien civilization the technology to travel vast distances, you'd [I'd think] then have to assume that at the very least they are also scientifically minded. We're pretty interested in 'if there's life out there,' wouldn't they be too? And having the means to actually observe it, wouldn't they?   

[Larry of the Lawn]

27 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

Anthropomorphism aside though, if one were to allow an advanced alien civilization the technology to travel vast distances, you'd [I'd think] then have to assume that at the very least they are also scientifically minded. We're pretty interested in 'if there's life out there,' wouldn't they be too? And having the means to actually observe it, wouldn't they?   

  I don't know if theres much point in speculating 'anthropomorphism aside'.  It's a pretty big assumption to make with no logical reason to back it up.  

However, anthropomorphism aside, I could see humans becoming capable of traversing vast distances in the future but still have half of us be completely non-scientific minded.  

Part of it might be the fitness-over-accuracy part of evolution.  

[JGP]

You been hitting the bong, larry? lol

[A True Kaniggit]

Screw it. We should start making self sustaining micro ecosystems, then launch them in all directions. 

[Larry of the Lawn]

3 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

You been hitting the bong, larry? lol

Not especially but did listen to half of the always wonderful Blindsight at work today after @Week mentioned it lol

[Larry of the Lawn]

1 minute ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Screw it. We should start making self sustaining micro ecosystems and launch them in all directions. 

May I introduce you to the chia pet

[A True Kaniggit]

36 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

May I introduce you to the chia pet

I’ve seen the commercials.
I’m not that young.

Same basic principal though. We make a hollow sphere thick enough radiation can’t get through. Then we have some scientists do math on what organisms need to be in there at the correct ratios. Then launch!

 

 

Edit: Ugh. This wouldn’t work. 
 

Can one of you go ahead and make a workable fusion reactor? Or ask the aliens if we can copy theirs? My little ecosystems need some energy source to keep them going.

I guess solar panels would work for a while if all I wanted to do was launch them into orbit around the sun.

[Rippounet]

1 hour ago, JEORDHl said:

if one were to allow an advanced alien civilization the technology to travel vast distances, you'd [I'd think] then have to assume that at the very least they are also scientifically minded. We're pretty interested in 'if there's life out there,' wouldn't they be too?

I'm not so sure. Once a civilization reaches a post-scarcity state (presumably through some form of scientific process), the rationale for curiosity or scientific thought might disappear.

One way to put it (while avoiding the trap of anthropomorphism) is that the purpose of life is first and foremost to preserve itself. Reproduction and expansion derive from the threat of death. Take it away thanks to abundance, and it is not certain that expansion remains.

If we come back to anthropomorphism, I don't buy Kurzweil's idea that we will eventually "fill the universe." If humans could obtain everything, they'd spend their time trapped in simulations in which they'd be Superman, Gengis Khan, or Hugh Hefner. No one would care about conquering space anymore. Best case scenario, we'd send droids to do it and use the data to simulate our exploration.

Point is, alien life could be perfectly content staying on its planet or in its solar system.
And maybe they do send us droids - mostly to get data for some weird sex fetishes.

[JGP]

3 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

I'm not so sure. Once a civilization reaches a post-scarcity state (presumably through some form of scientific process), the rationale for curiosity or scientific thought might disappear.

Pfft. This seems like a silly speculation. Philosophical UBI blues? Come on lol

[Soylent Brown]

7 hours ago, JEORDHl said:

Anthropomorphism aside though, if one were to allow an advanced alien civilization the technology to travel vast distances, you'd [I'd think] then have to assume that at the very least they are also scientifically minded. We're pretty interested in 'if there's life out there,' wouldn't they be too? And having the means to actually observe it, wouldn't they?   

You'd expect so, but surely an advanced alien civilisation wouldn't have to zig-zag around in the lower atmosphere like idiots to do so?

[Loge]

8 hours ago, JEORDHl said:

Anthropomorphism aside though, if one were to allow an advanced alien civilization the technology to travel vast distances, you'd [I'd think] then have to assume that at the very least they are also scientifically minded.

Not really. If you look at Western countries in 2021, there's a huge disconnect between science and the general population. People will happily use their smartphone to organise a Flat Earther meeting. 

[Rippounet]

8 hours ago, JEORDHl said:

Pfft. This seems like a silly speculation. Philosophical UBI blues? Come on lol

It's more uplifting than the Dark Forest hypothesis.

I'm not taking this seriously, but I wouldn't dismiss the thought as silly. I wouldn't overestimate human curiosity in the first place (that's always been limited to specific stratas of our societies), and I don't see why it would be seen as an immutable characteristic of our species, let alone any intelligent life in the universe.

Are "we" (bearing in mind that this "we" should be defined) even that interested in "life out there" ? Fascination with aliens comes from many different places, and I really doubt that "scientific curiosity" is actually at the top of the list. I'm not even convinced it's at the top of the list in this thread tbh.

[JGP]

2 hours ago, Rippounet said:

It's more uplifting than the Dark Forest hypothesis.

I'm not taking this seriously, but I wouldn't dismiss the thought as silly. I wouldn't overestimate human curiosity in the first place (that's always been limited to specific stratas of our societies), and I don't see why it would be seen as an immutable characteristic of our species, let alone any intelligent life in the universe.

Are "we" (bearing in mind that this "we" should be defined) even that interested in "life out there" ? Fascination with aliens comes from many different places, and I really doubt that "scientific curiosity" is actually at the top of the list. I'm not even convinced it's at the top of the list in this thread tbh.

I wish I had the time to really dig into the generalities of this, but I have to finish packing and begin our [checks] 1162 km move today. 
 

To be resumed, alas.