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UK Politics - You can't correct a mistake, if you don't admit it was a mistake

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Pretty sure we're going to hear some of the "very good people on both sides" bullshit from Johnson over the course of the next few weeks. We've already had his spokesman saying these people have every right to peacefully protest.

Booing this gesture is racist act. It needs to be treated as such, and I would go so far as to ban these fucking degenerates. 

 

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33 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Pretty sure we're going to hear some of the "very good people on both sides" bullshit from Johnson over the course of the next few weeks. We've already had his spokesman saying these people have every right to peacefully protest.

Booing this gesture is racist act. It needs to be treated as such, and I would go so far as to ban these fucking degenerates. 

 

What I don’t understand about the whole taking the knee thing is, it’s a symbol that is clearly really bad at communicating what people think they are communicating. If you were an advertising exec and your ad campaign was creating an intensely adverse reaction for half your consumers then you wouldn’t just double down and dismiss everyone as ignorant racists. You might rethink why your campaign isn’t working.

Taking the knee means different things to different people , and while there are some like the Gary Lineakers of the world who think that everyone booing it is doing it because they want more racism, that isn’t actually what is going on, just go and ask fans why they are booing, or go ask people like Zaha why they won’t do it any more.

Edited by Heartofice

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There's a big difference between choosing not to take the knee and actively booing your own fucking football team for doing it.

And I don't think anyone has said that the people booing want more racism. They want exactly the same amount of racism, and they don't want to be told that racism is bad.

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Just now, Bale's Bald Spot said:

There's a big difference between choosing not to take the knee and actively booing your own fucking football team for doing it.

And I don't think anyone has said that the people booing want more racism. They want exactly the same amount of racism, and they don't want to be told that racism is bad.

I don’t agree with the booing, but you are wrong here

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27 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

What I don’t understand about the whole taking the knee thing is, it’s a symbol that is clearly really bad at communicating what people think they are communicating. If you were an advertising exec and your ad campaign was creating an intensely adverse reaction for half your consumers then you wouldn’t just double down and dismiss everyone as ignorant racists. You might rethink why your campaign isn’t working.

Taking the knee means different things to different people , and while there are some like the Gary Lineakers of the world who think that everyone booing it is doing it because they want more racism, that isn’t actually what is going on, just go and actually as long fans why they are booing, or go ask people like Zaha why they won’t do it any more.

A lot of this discussion is basically a distraction. 

Politicians and the news media shouldn't be talking about on whether or not footballers make a well intentioned symbolic gesture at the start of the match. 

They should be focused on the fact that we're in the middle of the worst public health crisis for 100 years and the worst economic crisis for 300 years (and poorer people as well as those from ethnic minorities have been impacted the most). 

That's what's important. 

 

Edited by Lady_Qohor

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18 minutes ago, Lady_Qohor said:

A lot of this discussion is basically a distraction. 

Politicians and the news media shouldn't be talking about on whether or not footballers make a well intentioned symbolic gesture at the start of the match. 

They should be focused on the fact that we're in the middle of the worst public health crisis for 100 years and the worst economic crisis for 300 years (and poorer people as well as those from ethnic minorities have been impacted the most). 

That's what's important. 

 

Football does not really attract the most open minded people in society. How man openly gay active football players do people know?

It is a sport that is not worth supporting because it tends to be a safe space for racist, sexist and homophonic groups. Stadiums and stuff are often financed with taxes as are the police that are often needed to keep the more violent fans in check. Because of that it is worth a discussion imo.

Edited by Luzifer's right hand

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1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

What I don’t understand about the whole taking the knee thing is, it’s a symbol that is clearly really bad at communicating what people think they are communicating. If you were an advertising exec and your ad campaign was creating an intensely adverse reaction for half your consumers then you wouldn’t just double down and dismiss everyone as ignorant racists. You might rethink why your campaign isn’t working.

Taking the knee means different things to different people , and while there are some like the Gary Lineakers of the world who think that everyone booing it is doing it because they want more racism, that isn’t actually what is going on, just go and ask fans why they are booing, or go ask people like Zaha why they won’t do it any more.

You are so fucking predictable. 

If you don't like the taking of the knee because you think it's an empty gesture, or Marxism, or any other pathetic excuse the tabloids are serving up for you to hide behind, just stand there quietly like a civilized member of society and shut the fuck up. 

Fucking racists. Remember all the fuss when the tabloids convinced us the Poles and Ukrainians were going to ruin the Euros with all their overt racism? SMFH. 

 

 

Edited by Spockydog

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3 minutes ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

Football does not really attract the most open minded people in society. How man openly gay active football players do people know?

It is a sport that is not worth supporting because it tends to be a safe space for racist, sexist and homophonic groups. Stadiums and stuff are often financed with taxes as are the police that are often needed to keep the more violent fans in check. Because of that it is worth a discussion imo.

Then let's talk about levels of racist, sexist and homophobic incidents in football. Let's talk about whether or not it should be tax subsidised. 

Those are worthwhile conversations to be had. 

Talking about whether or not players kneel down before the start of a match is not an important discussion. It is one of many culture war distractions designed by certain people to stop us from talking about real problems, whether that's Covid-19, poverty, racist hiring practices, homophobic violence etc. 

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Just now, Lady_Qohor said:

 

Talking about whether or not players kneel down before the start of a match is not an important discussion.

Righto. Tell that to the black players being booed by their own fans. 

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10 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Righto. Tell that to the black players being booed by their own fans. 

To clarify I do think that any players should absolutely be allowed to take the knee. I also think black players should be allowed to walk of the pitch, with no repercussions, if they are experiencing racist abuse. 

My concern is that arguing with policitians and people online about whether or not the act of taking the knee is appropriate is distracting from discussion of the root cause - racist incidents, whether that's verbal or physical abuse, unequal levels of income, university admissions, stop and search tactics etc. 

There isn't time or space to talk about everything so let's prioritise talking about the problems. 

Edited by Lady_Qohor

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6 minutes ago, Lady_Qohor said:

Then let's talk about levels of racist, sexist and homophobic incidents in football. Let's talk about whether or not it should be tax subsidised. 

Those are worthwhile conversations to be had. 

Talking about whether or not players kneel down before the start of a match is not an important discussion. It is one of many culture war distractions designed by certain people to stop us from talking about real problems, whether that's Covid-19, poverty, racist hiring practices, homophobic violence etc. 

That’s a bit of confusing thinking really. If talking about taking the knee is not important then what is the point of the gesture in the first place? 
 

Sure the Tories will jump on this, but that’s what any politician will do on any issue that benefits them. That isn’t surprising.

The thing is, if you want there to be an agreement on how to deal with racism within the game, you’d probably want to create a unifying message that people can get behind.. I dunno.. like Kick it out ( something that curiously wasn’t booed) 

If your message isn’t getting through, then change tac and get one that does. Right now taking the knee is nothing more than a divisive gesture that has lost most Its meaning and feels more like something that is routine and mandatory. If people are booing it, maybe ask those people why they are booing. 

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1 minute ago, Raja said:

Racists just lose their mind when they're called out for what their comments & actions represent.

It does seem like some people are more offended by being called a racist than the fact that racism is going on. 

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Someone should start a campaign to boo the one minute silences for all the dead soldiers. Its a totally empty gesture that has been going on for decades and hasn’t changed a thing. I mean, we still love war and murdering brown people, so what's the point? 

 

Edited by Spockydog

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Same old thing isn’t it. Throw around accusations of racism like it’s confetti then look bemused when people don’t react well. God knows when anyone will learn.
 

Just ask yourself why taking the knee gets booed and why other displays of anti racism get much more positive reactions. 

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No. We need to ask those booing. Some news outlets have done just that, and the reasons seem borne out of ignorance, of one form or another. 

 

Edited by Spockydog

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5 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

No. We need to ask those booing. Some news outlets have done just that, and the reasons seem borne out of ignorance, of one form or another. 

 

Right and what were their reasons?

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5 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Right and what were their reasons?

Mainly, but not exclusively: Creeping Marxism (LMFAO at that one!). BLM. Keeping politics out of football. 

Edited by Spockydog

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7 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Mainly, but not exclusively: Creeping Marxism (LMFAO at that one!). BLM. Keeping politics out of football. 

Right and so it wasn’t because they were racists. Or I guess you just choose to ignore what they are saying 

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