US politics: Manchin to the beat of a different drum

[DanteGabriel]

35 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Shocking, the guy dumb enough to admit on live TV that the Benghazi hearings were a fraud to hurt Clinton can't lead at all...

He also get caught on a recording saying he thought Trump was on Putin's payroll.

4 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Recent history is incredibly poorly taught. Anything a high school student's grandparents were alive for is I think avoided or glossed over in high school classes because teachers don't want complaints.

I actually saw a posting somewhere else a few months ago by a young person who said the civil unrest this past year after the George Floyd case was the most violent in the USA since the Civil War!  As someone who is 69 that boggled my mind. He evidently didn't know anything about the 1965 Watts riots or the 1967 Detroit riots or even the 1992 Rodney King riots in L.A., all of which happened when I was old enough to remember them. Not to mention of course the Tulsa massacre which this year is the 100th anniversary of, and I'm sure many others which I am not remembering off the top of my head right now. 

You're also younger than Ruby Bridges, the little girl who desegregated schools in Louisiana in 1960. The abuse she and her family were subjected to  -- she was in first grade! Death threats on her way to school from grown adults, for daring to go to a school with white children.

This stuff seems pretty distant when it's a later chapter in a US history textbook, but Ruby Bridges is ten years younger than my mother in law.

[Ser Reptitious]

7 hours ago, S John said:

That is part of it, but I think it’s more about a combination of abortion being a very easy message to package for public consumption and keeping Christians in the conservative fold. The term ‘baby killer’ invokes just about the most evil thing most people can imagine, and if people don’t stop and think about it any further than that - and, let’s face it, critical thinking IS asking a lot from the general population - you get a knee-jerk irrational response from a big enough group of people to pay political dividends.

then there are a lot of conservatives in America who I think could potentially flip to democrats if it weren’t for abortion - some evangelicals and hard line Catholics might find it hard to justify some of the right’s policies towards the poor, or minorities, or an obvious uncouth heathen like Donald Trump being the face of the country, but abortion is the conservative trump card that keeps them from straying and is why they’ll continue playing it.

Yeah, that's also very true. So sad!

[mormont]

The other thing is that the abortion debate appeals to 'babies' as an abstract concept, not the messy imperfect actual creatures that have to be supported and paid for by your tax dollar but the avatars of innocence.

[IheartIheartTesla]

If 35 House Republicans agreed with the formation of a commission, then I imagine 5-6 GoP senators may as well.

[Mindwalker]

I didn't mean to insult the, uh, dining place, just can't remember the name!

Regarding that commission. What would it accomplish that the FBI and police couldn't (or at least should)?

 

[Mexal]

20 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Oh, totally.  This was a sub set of a bunch of over-privileged Upper East Side independent Catholic School moms.  And honestly sometimes all you need to do is to push people a little bit - there was a lot of nodding and agreement until I weighed in.  Then there was a lot of agreement with what I said.  And then I changed the subject to another family’s new puppy because I couldn’t deal.

Oh no. My wife is pregnant, we live on the Upper East Side. Is this her future?

[Maithanet]

Our high school American history ended with World War 2 (by design).  We did the civil rights movement in 5th grade I think, but there's only so much discussion of Jim Crow and dehumanization you're going to get into with 10 year olds. 

[Mlle. Zabzie]

1 hour ago, Mexal said:

Oh no. My wife is pregnant, we live on the Upper East Side. Is this her future?

Nope.  I fully believe in self-determination, and the UES is a big place   I mean, we live on the UES and one hopes I am distinguishable!

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

16 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Our high school American history ended with World War 2 (by design).  We did the civil rights movement in 5th grade I think, but there's only so much discussion of Jim Crow and dehumanization you're going to get into with 10 year olds. 

Was that in DC? My HS history class went up to 9/11 and the ensuing wars. The Civil Rights movement was discussed, but it was probably just one week of the class.

Then again, nationwide HS American history and civics classes have to be shit if a majority of Americans can't name the three branches of government.

But the American people are smart, as every politician says.... 

[aceluby]

1 hour ago, Mindwalker said:

I didn't mean to insult the, uh, dining place, just can't remember the name!

Regarding that commission. What would it accomplish that the FBI and police couldn't (or at least should)?

Senate and House have ethics rules, that if broken could lead to removal from committees or, I believe, removal from office.  FBI and police don't care about those rules.  Subpoena powers and testifying under oath is another big one, as anyone who can remember Bill Clinton testifying under oath can attest to. 

[Mlle. Zabzie]

6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Was that in DC? My HS history class went up to 9/11 and the ensuing wars. The Civil Rights movement was discussed, but it was probably just one week of the class.

Then again, nationwide HS American history and civics classes have to be shit if a majority of Americans can't name the three branches of government.

But the American people are smart, as every politician says.... 

I mean in the early 90s in Northern Virginia we did the civil rights movement, the Vietnam war, and in like the last week of class touched on Watergate (and 1946-1974 was really compressed), but it was only about 15 years after that event.  So I think some of it is when the teaching happens.  Text books are only updated every so often and school districts only update their editions/curriculum every so often.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

13 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

I mean in the early 90s in Northern Virginia we did the civil rights movement, the Vietnam war, and in like the last week of class touched on Watergate (and 1946-1974 was really compressed), but it was only about 15 years after that event.  So I think some of it is when the teaching happens.  Text books are only updated every so often and school districts only update their editions/curriculum every so often.  

I would have taken those classes around 2005 so it makes sense we had pretty new books considering 9/11 was a defining event for our age group.

[HoodedCrow]

Okay, 

I think I finally got what your saying. Some people are taught about the Northern War of Aggression, and Texas is a State that controls what is published in U.S. textbooks, so I have no idea. Our American Civil War curriculum focused on battles and was very mechanical. I didn’t like trying to memorize the English War either. Really, I think that there is a lot of education about how much fun a civil war would be in Martins books. 

[Fez]

49 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Our high school American history ended with World War 2 (by design).  We did the civil rights movement in 5th grade I think, but there's only so much discussion of Jim Crow and dehumanization you're going to get into with 10 year olds. 

Pretty much the same for us in upstate New York 15-20 years ago; even in AP US History. We'd finish up WWII around the start of June, which technically left 3 weeks left in the school year to cover the rest of the 20th century. But between finals and the general June malaise there were probably only 4 or 5 actual teaching days left, and we'd spend them on the Korean War and talking a bit about the Cold War (but no mention of Vietnam at all). Nothing domestic was spoken of.

[Mexal]

2 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Nope.  I fully believe in self-determination, and the UES is a big place   I mean, we live on the UES and one hopes I am distinguishable!

Phew  

I was just being cheeky... my wife is born and raised on the UES, in the same building we live in. I have to believe that if she was going to change, it would have been by now. Can't wait for the book clubs though, last time she was in one, she suggested American Pyscho by Bret Easton Ellis which did not go over so well. Think the second one was High-Rise by J.G. Ballard. I'm not sure they have done another one (or she wasn't invited back) 

[Fez]

Not sure I understand Burr's stance here, but if he's against the commission I don't see 10 votes to break a filibuster...

 

[argonak]

13 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

He also get caught on a recording saying he thought Trump was on Putin's payroll.

You're also younger than Ruby Bridges, the little girl who desegregated schools in Louisiana in 1960. The abuse she and her family were subjected to  -- she was in first grade! Death threats on her way to school from grown adults, for daring to go to a school with white children.

This stuff seems pretty distant when it's a later chapter in a US history textbook, but Ruby Bridges is ten years younger than my mother in law.

The right was horrible to that kid who talked about climate change last year.  Even my coworkers said some pretty nasty things.

I was really disheartened when my coworkers started thinking they could say what was really on their mind.  People I thought were kind and caring turned out to have some real vile streaks in them.  The Trump Era for some reason made people think they could revel in their nastiness.

[Martell Spy]

Huge IRS funding boost would be phased in under Biden's plan to snag tax cheats
The department’s total budget would increase by about 10 percent annually.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/20/irs-funding-boost-489830

Quote

 

President Joe Biden's plan to greatly increase funding for the IRS to go after tax cheats would be phased in to give the agency time to absorb the additional resources.

In a report Thursday, the Treasury Department said the IRS would hire thousands of new enforcement agents under its plan, but its staff would never grow by more than a “manageable” 15 percent each year.

The department’s total budget would increase by about 10 percent annually.

But over a decade, the change would be dramatic: The agency would hire almost 87,000 new employees, approximately doubling its workforce, under the proposal.

At the same time, the administration wants to require financial institutions and other businesses to report a lot more information about the money coursing through their customers’ accounts — a proposal designed to put the fear of the IRS in the hearts of tax scofflaws.

It’s part of a concerted effort by the administration to go after uncollected taxes owed by large corporations, partnerships and wealthy individuals — money Democrats want to use to finance their big-ticket spending plans.

“The president’s compliance proposals are designed to ameliorate existing inequities by focusing on high-end evasion,” the report says.

“These unpaid taxes come at a cost to American households and compliant taxpayers as policymakers choose rising deficits, lower spending on necessary priorities, or further tax increases to compensate for the lost revenue.”

The agency said uncollected taxes in 2019 amounted to about $554 billion, though IRS Commissioner Chuck Rettig said recently the figure could be as high as $1 trillion.

While the administration intends to boost scrutiny of high earners, it says audit rates for those making less than $400,000 would not increase under the proposal.

The push comes after years of tight IRS budgets under Republicans that caused agency audit rates to plunge. 

 

 

[DMC]

5 hours ago, Mindwalker said:

Regarding that commission. What would it accomplish that the FBI and police couldn't (or at least should)?

Independence and transparency.

Obviously it remains to be seen if this could be as successful (or even actually be enacted), but the 9/11 commission led to the largest reorganization of the intelligence bureaucracy since WWII.  That's precisely because they were investigating the agencies themselves to identify failures and weaknesses.  Considering the massive law enforcement failure that was 1/6, it seems quite appropriate to independently investigate all agencies involved - including the FBI.  

Also, the 9/11 commission report was almost completely transparent.  You can read it for free online.  That's not going to be the case for any IG report from any agency, if only due to institutional norms - which is ideally what such study groups should be scrutinizing.

3 hours ago, Fez said:

Pretty much the same for us in upstate New York 15-20 years ago; even in AP US History. We'd finish up WWII around the start of June, which technically left 3 weeks left in the school year to cover the rest of the 20th century.

Well, as someone in high school in upstate New York 15-20 (I suppose more like..18-22) years ago, nope.  That was not my experience at all.  We definitely didn't mostly stop at WWII in AP history (I mean, seriously, WTF?).  Plus, while my memory of my childhood broadly sucks ass, I know we went over recent history at least once in middle school.  I don't think this is a region thing inasmuch as it's just the quality of schools - and apparently there's very few of adequate quality anywhere in the country.

3 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Text books are only updated every so often and school districts only update their editions/curriculum every so often.  

Definitely the latter not the former.  New editions of textbooks are updated all the time.  How often schools buy such updates is an entirely different matter.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

6 minutes ago, DMC said:

Independence and transparency.

Obviously it remains to be seen if this could be as successful (or even actually be enacted), but the 9/11 commission led to the largest reorganization of the intelligence bureaucracy since WWII.  That's precisely because they were investigating the agencies themselves to identify failures and weaknesses.  Considering the massive law enforcement failure that was 1/6, it seems quite appropriate to independently investigate all agencies involved - including the FBI.  

Also, the 9/11 commission report was almost completely transparent.  You can read it for free online.  That's not going to be the case for any IG report from any agency, if only due to institutional norms - which is ideally what such study groups should be scrutinizing.

Well, as someone in high school in upstate New York 15-20 (I suppose more like..18-22) years ago, nope.  That was not my experience at all.  We definitely didn't mostly stop at WWII in AP history (I mean, seriously, WTF?).  Plus, while my memory of my childhood broadly sucks ass, I know we went over recent history at least once in middle school.  I don't think this is a region thing inasmuch as it's just the quality of schools - and apparently there's very few of adequate quality anywhere in the country.

Definitely the latter not the former.  New editions of textbooks are updated all the time.  How often schools buy such updates is an entirely different matter.

Yes, sorry if I wasn't clear.  I was just noting that a lot of districts don't buy textbooks every year, or even every other year.  Maybe more like every 5?  I'd have to ask my sister who has a job in a VA school district where she would know.